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#221 D'Elle

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Posted 05 November 2011 - 09:19 PM

I really love reading this thread!

Does Kelso look to be in pain? You could try PROM (Passive Range of Motion). Here are directions if you're interested:

*Lay your companion on his/her side making sure the limb you are treating is up. Make sure he/she is comfortable and relaxed. PROM SHOULD NOT BE FORCED.

*Use BIG SOFT HANDS (no matter what the size of your hands) and fully support the limb under the joint you are moving. For example: Don't hold the foot to move the hip.

*Initially, move each joint separately to check for adverse reactions. Keeping the limb level with the floor and in a comfortable and natural position for your companion, slowly and gently straighten the limb (extension), then slowly and gently bend the limb (flexion). Do not push into resistance.

*Go slowly - use time as a measure, not how many times you move the limb; otherwise you will count too quickly and move too quickly.

*Gentle oscillating movements help to assist with muscle relaxation.

*Use this quality time to gain your companion's trust and to help them feel better.


You should range the joints for 3-5 minutes 2-3 times per day.

TIPS:
Active Range of Motion - Encourage your companion to stretch his/her own leg by massaging along their back or on the front of the thigh. This may stimulate a stretch of the leg to the rear - straightening the limb.

Goals:Maintain soft tissue mobility, promote circulation, and decrease joint stiffness.

Thanks very much, sixx. I could start with that right away, because as long as I go slowly and carefully it can't harm anything. I am starting to get fairly tuned in to Kelso these days, and he trusts me to a limited extent but we have a long way to go to feel close or bonded.

I honestly do not know if he is in pain or not. I know that sounds ridiculous. Normally there'd be no doubt one way or the other. He doesn't display any of the signs that would normally cause me to think that a dog is in pain. But he is not a normal dog. He has been subjected to horrors. And he has learned too well how to hunker down and simply endure. He's not likely ever to be a dog who shows discomfort readily; he has not had any reason to think that doing so will get him help.
D'Elle

D'Elle

Border Collies Jester and Kit; small dogs Digger and Boo, and cats Ben and Mingo

Below left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

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"You gonna throw that? You gonna throw that?" --Jester
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit
(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

 

 

 

 


#222 Sue R

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 06:53 AM

Here's thinking of you and hoping you can get things figured out. I love reading about every little bit of his progress, and am grateful that he has you in his life now and forever.
Sue Rayburn - Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult, but not the brightest firefly in the jar.

Celt, Megan, and Dan

"When the chips are down, watch where you step."

"The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything. They just make the best of everything." - author unknown

#223 D'Elle

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 12:22 PM

Thank you, Sue.
A very encouraging thing is happening: now that he is being let out to play with me and the other dogs in the larger area of our land, he is running just a little bit farther than he used to. Obviously a good thing! And I am watching him closely (as I always have, of course) to see if his bow-stretch gets any more limber.

As for having me in his life forever, that remains to be seen. People often ask me if, really now, he is not eventually going to become my dog if he has not already. I cannot predict the future so I never try to. All I can say is that as of today he is not my dog; he is my foster dog, and belongs to ABCR. And as of today he is not ready for adoption, and my goal with him is to get him to a point at which he could be adopted. What may or may not happen months from now remains to be seen. But I do love him. Any of you would, if you'd been living with him for the past 6 months. :)
D'Elle

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Border Collies Jester and Kit; small dogs Digger and Boo, and cats Ben and Mingo

Below left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that? You gonna throw that?" --Jester
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit
(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

 

 

 

 


#224 Sue R

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Posted 06 November 2011 - 05:48 PM

Understood - I was certainly blurring the lines between foster and forever!

I am sure that whatever happens, it will be in his best interests, whether he moves on to that forever family, or whether it turns out he is already in a forever family.

Very best wishes (and my sincere admiration for all you have done and are doing, and will be doing, for him)!
Sue Rayburn - Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult, but not the brightest firefly in the jar.

Celt, Megan, and Dan

"When the chips are down, watch where you step."

"The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything. They just make the best of everything." - author unknown

#225 D'Elle

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Posted 08 November 2011 - 08:08 PM

Thank you so much, Sue.
But..........I just have to put in here that the admiration really deservedly goes to Kelso. He is the one doing all the hard work. My part in it is easy as pie compared to what he has gone through and how hard he has to work to overcome it. :)
D'Elle

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Border Collies Jester and Kit; small dogs Digger and Boo, and cats Ben and Mingo

Below left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that? You gonna throw that?" --Jester
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit
(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

 

 

 

 


#226 D'Elle

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 09:18 AM

Progress report on Kelso:

Kelso continues to make progress. We are venturing out into the world now, just a bit. It is challenging. He throws up in the car, and drools excessively when I take him into a strange place, and sometimes he glues himself to the floor. But usually, when I walk away from him he will get up and follow me. It is challenging for me because people sometimes ask questions and it is impossible to tell his story in 25 words or less. It would appear to most people that if I have had the dog for 6 months and he acts the way that they see him act I am not doing a very good job with him! If only they knew that what they are seeing represents amazing growth and very hard work on Kelso's part.

If they could see him at home with me they would get a different picture. Once again, I am struck by the fact that I know a Kelso no one else ever sees.

He is getting more playful with the other dogs, and with me. He now regularly comes in the morning for his petting before I get out of bed, although he has yet to jump up on the bed. This of course may have a lot to do with the fact that there are already 2 dogs on the bed and not much room left for a third, even if he is smaller! He puts his front paws up, though, and plays with my hand and licks my fingers and gets petted and loves it. Then, he grabs whatever item of clothing I have left on the floor for him from the night before, and carries it around the room, shaking it and pouncing on it until it is time to be let outside, whereupon he dashes and dances to the back door to be let out. If you saw him during these times you would never know that he is not a normal dog. He is so cute!!

He is running a bit farther when I throw a toy for the dogs outside now than he was two weeks ago, and I am hoping that this will continue because he really needs the exercise to loosen up those stiff joints of his. I wish I were a runner, and could take him running with me, but running is not my thing.

This morning a big surprise: he did a bow-stretch and went down farther than I have ever seen him go before!! That pretty much made my day. No matter what else happens today, it is a good day because Kelso is starting to limber up.
:D
D'Elle

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Border Collies Jester and Kit; small dogs Digger and Boo, and cats Ben and Mingo

Below left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that? You gonna throw that?" --Jester
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit
(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

 

 

 

 


#227 Sue R

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 10:47 AM

Always wonderful to hear his progress!

Kudos to you both!
Sue Rayburn - Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult, but not the brightest firefly in the jar.

Celt, Megan, and Dan

"When the chips are down, watch where you step."

"The happiest people don't necessarily have the best of everything. They just make the best of everything." - author unknown

#228 bcnewe2

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 11:33 AM

Go kelso! One day you'll both look back on this and wonder how you ever got this far and marvel about what a different dog kelso will be/is!

Kristen
 

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Full of people waiting to be offended by something!

 

 

 

 


#229 arf2184

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 02:02 AM

This update brings me so much joy for you and Kelso!

In your very first post, you said you had to carry Kelso out to potty and 'progress' was him occasionally lifting his head off the floor. Now he's happily tossing your clothes around every morning and bounding to the door to go out, not to mention getting out of the house going places (even if that is still a challenge).

Keep up the great work! Thank you for sharing your and Kelso's progress with us.

~Alison
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#230 ShoresDog

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 12:24 PM

Wonderful! I would love to see him frolicking at home. Here's my pass at a little script for you. And it's exactly 25 words!

"Kelso was rescued from a hoarding situation where he was isolated 24/7 in a small wire cage. Naturally hes timid but hes making huge progress."

Jan & Daisy & Juno & Star
LJ Shores, San Diego CA

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#231 D'Elle

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 10:45 AM

Thanks, Shore's Dog. I like it...and will use it!

Now..............I need advice from you folks. I have had an incident with Kelso that I do not understand, nor do I know how I should have handled it, or how to handle it if it happens again. Please help me out if you can.

Kelso has, as you know from reading this, been very timid around everyone but me, although he will allow other people to pet him. He won't take food from anyone but me, but he will eat it if they put it on the floor next to him.

I had a good friend staying the weekend with me. She had stayed overnight once before, about a month ago. Kelso had reacted the same as always: avoidance of the Scary Stranger.

Night-before-last, and last night, as we were visiting in the living room, my friend made soft little noises to Kelso, and would go every now and then into the kitchen where he was lying, and put a little bit of food in front of him. She didn't pet him, just came and went. By last night, he was coming into the living room and seemed much less afraid of her than he has been of other people who have been here, and it was wonderful progress. He was looking directly at her, and even getting within three feet of her without running away. All was very good.

Now, Saturday morning when she came to my bedroom door to use my bathroom, Kelso barked at her through the dog-gate I use to keep them in the bedroom at night. I was surprised, but told her just to come in; she did, and Kelso just went and lay down. No problem. I just figured Kelso was startled, because he is not at all used to having someone spend the night here in the house.

This morning, Kelso growled and barked at her through the dog gate, and his body language was actually aggressive: he was doing a semi-crouch. I got up, and opened the dog gate while having the dogs do a Wait, as I always do. Kelso dropped his stance and was acting as usual, eager to get outside, so I released them. Of course I expected Kelso to run for the back door as he always does. Instead, he rushed at my friend, crouching, growling, and barking in a very aggressive manner.

I was utterly shocked. My friend, who is dog-savvy, simply froze in place. I said "Kelso!!", in a shocked voice. I have never really corrected Kelso for anything in the 6 months he has been here -- he has never needed correction since he became housebroken. Even in house training, I only ever said "ah-ah" to him, which is usually about all I ever do to correct my dogs.

I quickly called him to the back door, he came immediately, and out he went with the others. when he came back in to have breakfast, he acted completely normal (for Kelso) once again, and my friend was able to stand right next to him in the kitchen to get her coffee, without any reaction from Kelso.

I am unsure if I handled it correctly or not. What should I have done? What should I do if that behavior is repeated? I am asking because Kelso is unlike any dog I have had before, and the usual approaches one would take with a normal dog may not be at all appropriate for him.

In the future, if I have someone spend the night, I will keep a leash in the bedroom and put it on Kelso before opening the dog gate to let the dogs out of the bedroom. That way I can control him and if he acts aggressive toward the person I can stop him from approaching her.

I do not normally deal with aggression in dogs, as mine are not that way, and I most often take foster dogs who are timid and withdrawn. Clearly that was fear-aggression on Kelso's part, but that makes it no less puzzling to me, as he seemed to be learning to accept my friend just the night before. Could it have been a kind of backlash from that? "You got close to me last night and now I am afraid I shouldn't have let you get close"? Needless to say, Kelso has never before shown one atom of aggression in any situation previously. Not once.

Help me out here, please. I do not have past experience with this kind of thing, with this kind of dog, as Kelso is my first puppy mill rescue. I want to be sure I do not do something the wrong way and damage Kelso. At the same time, that behavior is utterly unacceptable, and I felt very badly that my friend was treated that way by a dog in my house. :(
D'Elle

D'Elle

Border Collies Jester and Kit; small dogs Digger and Boo, and cats Ben and Mingo

Below left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that? You gonna throw that?" --Jester
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit
(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

 

 

 

 


#232 nancy in AZ

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 12:42 PM

I haven't time to write out a detailed response at present, but briefly, Kelso's acceptance of your friend is situational and limited to certain contexts until his threshold of tolerance raises for this individual. As you no doubt know, fearful dogs take comfort from routine and predictability. Your friend's presence is an upset to that. And while Kelso may have been able to accept your friend while she was sitting and chatting with you in one room, in a different context, his tolerance of the unpredictable presence will change.

My own once very fear aggressive aussie, Boo, took some time but eventually would accept the presence of my annual house guests. As long as they were sitting on the sofa as we chatted he would eventually relax. He was behind a baby gate in an adjoining room and could monitor what was going on. But as soon as my friend stood up to go outside for a cigarette, Boo would trigger and lunge and bark at him. The context had changed and suddenly, in his mind what had been acceptable from this person became unpredictable causing him to become defensive beyond his threshold of tolerance.
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#233 D'Elle

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 01:46 PM

Yes, you are right, Nancy -- it was definitely a situational thing. As soon as I read your post I saw that clearly. No one had ever appeared at the door to the bedroom first thing in the morning before, and it was unexpected and frightening to him. The fact that he went for her once let out of the room, and she was standing in the living room, is what really concerns me.

I had a highly dog-reactive ACD/BC cross as a foster dog a year or so ago. She snarled constantly and barked if another dog were even in the same house, even if behind closed doors. I got her to accept my dogs and live peacefully with them. It only took about 20 minutes, using the techniques I learned in the book "Click To Calm". Easy-peasy, but she was very treat-motivated. Problem with Kelso is that he is not yet responsive enough to the concept of reward for me to get anywhere with him using clicker techniques. There is nothing that makes him want more of it enough for it to become a desirable reward, and he still doesn't feel comfortable relating intensively with me one-on-one. So I am at a loss as to how to train him with regard to this.
D'Ell

D'Elle

Border Collies Jester and Kit; small dogs Digger and Boo, and cats Ben and Mingo

Below left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that? You gonna throw that?" --Jester
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit
(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

 

 

 

 


#234 mbc1963

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Posted 20 November 2011 - 03:39 PM

I live alone with my dog, and I completely understand the context-change, dog-change.

My dog has a few people he knows and loves, and will let them move willy-nilly through my house. However, strangers have to sit calmly and quietly. Buddy can be fine with a person in one room, but if they go to the bathroom and then re-emerge, he reacts again, as if he had never seen them before. I do believe that Buddy's context-change reactivity is stronger than it is in most dogs, though for what reason, I do not know.

He cannot stand to run into things out of context: a dog he knows with known woman X is fine, but when daughter Y shows up with the dog, Buddy growls and barks at her. Puggle Y behind his known fence is fine, and we chat and pat him, but if a guest has another dog behind the same fence, Buddy reacts. (Meanwhile, same unknown dog behind a different, unknown fence: no reaction.) Buddy cannot stand things to be out of place or presented to him in an unexpected way. It just really seems to piss him off. :)

More than anything, it seems, Buddy likes to know what he can expect, and he strongly objects when routine is broken or changed.

That's probably not much help, but I can say that Buddy can learn to tolerate just about anything if given enough time to adapt to the new thing. Not crossing the threshold is important - exposing him in small doses until the new thing is familiar seems to be the key.

Mary

#235 beachdogz

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 07:06 PM

Hi D'Elle

We have talked before about our two rescues. I want to add that mine (Rusty) is more comfortable and seems happier outside in the yard than when he is in the house. I think that this is because being in a house is so foreign to him and he lacks the social skills most puppies learn while growing up in the house. This may also be true for Kelso, and so he does not know how to react when a new situation (like your friend) arises in the home. So I tend to think of his reaction as simply a lack of social skills and not knowing what to do when a new situation arises.

I also wanted to add that when I first got Rusty and watched him run in the yard, I also was alerted to his "stiff" kind of gait. I chalked it up to poor breeding - until I read about Kelso and his stiff gait. Now that he's here 3 months and has two acres to run and run and run with the other dogs, I noticed that the "stiffness" is disappearing. We don't know where he came from, but he was running with two puppies that appeared pure-bred (a cattle dog and a aus. shep) and so he may have come from some kind of puppy-mill/backyard breeder, and he may also have been confined for his young life.

Keep writing!!! Your insights about Kelso have been very helpful to us with our rescue....and probably many others feel the same way. :)
"Saving one dog will not change the world, but surely, the world will be changed for that one dog"

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#236 D'Elle

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 01:32 PM

Beachdogz, thank you so much for telling me about Rusty's stiffness. Kelso is running more these days because I let him go out the front now with the other dogs, and there is more room out there. I *think* he may be getting less stiff, but I might just be seeing that because I want to :-). So I will wait a while and keep watching him and see if it becomes more pronounced. He is running farther now than he has before, so that is a good thing.

Here's the latest. Wednesday I brought home a tiny little baby kitten, just barely 6 weeks old. I knew my dogs would be fine with him, as they both lived with a cat previously in complete harmony. I had no idea what Kelso would do, and so watched like a hawk at first. For the first day, Kelso was afraid of the kitten (who weighs just 1.5 pounds). Today is day three, and it is clear that Kelso actually likes the kitten. He turns his head and nuzzles him when the kitten runs up to him. And this morning, the kitten (who, only 2 days out of the shelter, already thinks he is pretty hot stuff and is getting big for his britches) tried to get into Kit's food bowl. Kit growled, kitten backed off, and I scooted the kitten away. Kitten went running over to Kelso's food bowl. (as an aside, I had already fed the kitten a prodigious amount of high quality canned cat food!) What did Kelso do? He backed up and let the kitten have his food! Of course *I* did not let the kitten have his food. But it was pretty sweet to see.
D'Elle
OH, PS.....thanks also for saying that my posts are helpful to you. that is wonderful! I mostly have been doing this so as to get advice, feedback, and support. If it actually helps someone else, that makes me feel ever so good. I will be sure to tell Kelso. Kelso, I think, will have a positive impact in the world in some way, however small, and maybe this is the start of it. :-)

D'Elle

Border Collies Jester and Kit; small dogs Digger and Boo, and cats Ben and Mingo

Below left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that? You gonna throw that?" --Jester
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit
(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

 

 

 

 


#237 ShoresDog

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Posted 02 December 2011 - 05:41 PM

Sweet! Now we will be pestering you for a Kelso+kitten photo....

Jan & Daisy & Juno & Star
LJ Shores, San Diego CA

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#238 beachdogz

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 09:51 AM

Kelso, I think, will have a positive impact in the world in some way, however small, and maybe this is the start of it. :-)


He already has. Being from W. Pa., I never knew about the Jefferson TX border collies. Kelso's story inspired me to look the story up on the internet...and made me very aware of what these dogs and this breed are going through in other parts of the country. I just read John's thread about Taff, also...another great story...I hope he will update us on Taff. These dogs and this thread has made me more aware of puppy mills, and rescue, and I'm sure it has also made other people who are visitors to this site more aware. So yes, I do believe Kelso has made an impact in his own way! :D
"Saving one dog will not change the world, but surely, the world will be changed for that one dog"

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Kylie Rusty Stormy

#239 dogzoomies

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 10:53 AM

Kelso is running more these days because I let him go out the front now with the other dogs, and there is more room out there. I *think* he may be getting less stiff, but I might just be seeing that because I want to :-). So I will wait a while and keep watching him and see if it becomes more pronounced. He is running farther now than he has before, so that is a good thing.


That's great that he appears to be loosening up a bit in the physical sense. In our case, toys were key in providing the motivation to get Jane moving around the yard. At first she had zero interest in toys of any kind. For a looong time she would sit/hide in the garden and watch me and my dogs. After watching my other dogs play with discs and squeaky balls, one day something in her clicked and once she found how fun it was to make a toy squeak, oh boy!

OH, PS.....thanks also for saying that my posts are helpful to you. that is wonderful! I mostly have been doing this so as to get advice, feedback, and support. If it actually helps someone else, that makes me feel ever so good. I will be sure to tell Kelso. Kelso, I think, will have a positive impact in the world in some way, however small, and maybe this is the start of it. :-)


Kelso and you have had a positive impact for sure! I had been reading Kelso's story from the start... what I didn't realize at the time, was that it was a primer for the journey I was about to undertake with another extremely shy but sweet gentle little blue merle tri from Jefferson, TX that came to be Jane. So thank you (Jane thanks you too!) for sharing, and for having faith in Kelso and for your generosity in giving him the time he needs to grow into the dog he is meant to be!

#240 ShoresDog

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Posted 03 December 2011 - 10:59 AM

Kelso and you have had a positive impact for sure! I had been reading Kelso's story from the start... what I didn't realize at the time, was that it was a primer for the journey I was about to undertake with another extremely shy but sweet gentle little blue merle tri from Jefferson, TX that came to be Jane. So thank you (Jane thanks you too!) for sharing, and for having faith in Kelso and for your generosity in giving him the time he needs to grow into the dog he is meant to be!

This brought a tear to my eye. Just so sweet.

Jan & Daisy & Juno & Star
LJ Shores, San Diego CA

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