19 replies to this topic

[Debbie Meier]

I had a call yesterday from one of the larger puppy brokers from the midwest (not Hunte) looking to contract for Border Collie puppies, I have also fielded a couple of calls in last few months from area breeders looking for breeding stock so that they can fill a increase in demand on the pet store level.

Also, it was interesting that the broker went out of her way to let me know that they take ABCA registered pups, whereas the breeders (actually undercover as working dog buyers) were looking for AKC and APRI registered pups, but they knew to say that they wanted the dog for work on the farm. The APRI deal raised a red flag for me, so I asked a few more questions that lead me to the conclusion that their intentions for purchase was solely for reproduction.

Anyway, heads up to anyone with registered females or males for sale to screen your buyers even closer if you don't want to have your dogs ending up with a breeder producing for pet stores, the breeders and brokers are beating the brush looking for dogs and people willing to breed.

[ShoresDog]

Arrghh. That is dismaying. I'm glad you're putting the word out with this heads-up.

[Pam Wolf]

I would like to know why people who supposedly agree with the goals of this board would advertising on puppyfind and similar pet sites. I do know that PM's often use those type sites not only to sell but to purchase breeding stock.

[bcnewe2]

are you talking about someone in particular Pam?

[Debbie Meier]

@Pam, Why not? There are some members of the boards that have websites and use blogger to market their pups and there are also some on other referral lists.

[Lana]

Very strange that none of the people i know are getting calls from "brokers." Maybe it is the part of the country these people live in, or maybe the brokers look for web sites with multiple litters, breeding dogs 14-16 months old, and breeding mix breeds.

[Debbie Meier]

@Lana, are there many brokers up in your neck of the woods?

[Liz P]

Where are they calling from?

I've never had a call from a broker that I know of.

[Lana]

I may not live in the heartland aka mecca for puppy mills, but i do live 300 miles from San francisco and Portland, and a days drive to Seattle and L.A. I am guessing numbers of "brokers" on the west coast is not the issue.

[Debbie Meier]

I think they are in Kansas but I would have too look it up, unless your a licensed breeder with either the State or USDA I doubt you will get a call from a broker.


Since we are out in public so much with our dogs, (demonstrations, fairs, etc.) we publish our state license number on our business cards and on our website to keep the boogie man away, basically don't bother a drive by/drive in, we have our license and get inspected, we are above board with nothing to hide.


Regardless of how they came to contact us, it appears as if the brokers and contract breeders are looking for Border Collies which would indicate to me a possible demand greater then supply on the pet store level. I'm not certain what the total implications are over the long term as the breeders ramp up their numbers in an effort to get their premium from the brokers, but, someone that does rescue may.

[jdarling]

Since we are out in public so much with our dogs, (demonstrations, fairs, etc.) we publish our state license number on our business cards and on our website to keep the boogie man away, basically don't bother a drive by/drive in, we have our license and get inspected, we are above board with nothing to hide.

I wonder if your ad on the IOWA PET BREEDERS (here's another link ... can't tell if you're listed twice?) website isn't the culprit. I don't think that any of the brokers are showing up at the demos or the fairs or are out gathering business cards to send solicitations to. Seems more realistic to me that they would be scouring the pet ads.

[Debbie Meier]

Ohhh evil...big deal, so we are members of the Iowa Pet Breeders Association, and are listed on their website and in their directory. We don't try to hide it, we attend their convention where we get updates on legislation and education in regard to everything from breeding to care, I even posted about going to it last year after we were there.

It's a convention that anyone thinking about breeding or raising dogs or even other pets should attend and it is a group that is worth considering becoming a member to. Membership does not make you evil, we learned alot last year by taking the step out regardless of the stigma associated with it by attending and joining.

[jdarling]

Wow. No one said you were evil or any such thing. All I said was that's probably where the broker found you. That's all. But nevermind ... I will step out of it.

[Debbie Meier]

Sorry Jodi, I apoligize for misunderstanding your intent, I found the deflection as to why and how the broker contacted us to be annoying and I should have ignored it. I was not asking why or how, to me it's a no brainer, they can legally buy from us and we are easy to find. I was just sharing information based on the contact and other recent ones. I fail to see any reason as to why it should effect the original message, but I tend to be dense sometimes. I should have just kept it all to myself and not issued a headsup.


Just a note about the IPBA directory, the association publishes a directory each year that gets distributed to members and also vet clinics. We get inquires on a regular bases, mostly referrals from vet clinics based on the directory. It's been a great way to educate people that are looking for pups and try to steer them toward working breeders or rescue.

[Lana]

I don't believe the "brokers" only live in Kansas............ Toto. I do think they look for certain red flags on web sites and listings.

If you are going to advertise on your public web site that you breed 10 year old bitches, 14 month old dogs and mix breeds,then a claim of "deflection" is interesting.

Good for you not selling to these people, but i don't think they randomly pick breeders.

[Pam Wolf]

Laws are different in different States. In Iowa it helps to have a State license for a kennel. People in other parts of the country just don't seem to understand that the freedom of keeping dogs is just NOT there without legal hoops to jump through.

Brokers have been around for years. They contact people through newspaper adds, farm journal adds, posters put up in the feed store. Until you have lived in the areas with brokers you just don't seem to understand how it works.

[Lana]

Thinking that the internet might be a lil more useful than the feed store poster, but maybe that is just on the west coast.

The many people on these boards who post the "what about this breeder" threads all found them on the net. One way to avoid un welcome contact from "brokers" is to not put out a shingle with BYB red flags.

[dream spirit]

Lana, you have a good point.
Often when I read threads about what "others" are doing or "showcasing" about dogs used for breeding I wonder how did they know this about these "breeders" ? I think if your turning out several litters a year maybe you should not be throwing stones at others either.
I sort of keep to myself and don't really go looking for trouble . I don't breed much at all and really labor about anything I might plan to breed.
So, I have never been contacted by a broker and guessing I never will .
I am pretty sure I would be able to screen out a broker, but I know sometimes you can get fooled and there are people who know what to tell you, and you could get duped by them . Some might even be just a bad as selling a pup to a broker and breed a pup too young to know it's full potential or breed too much ...you can only do what you can. The only way of fully protecting yourself from this is to never breed at all.

[Pam Wolf]

Brokers often lie under the guise of families, as do puppy mills. And people do intentionally breed young unproven dogs on purpose. Sometimes dogs get bred accidentally and the owners take care to place the pups well.

[bcnewe2]

And people do intentionally breed young unproven dogs on purpose. Sometimes dogs get bred accidentally and the owners take care to place the pups well.

I don't see what this has to do with puppy mills contacting people/breeders for puppies. Are you saying that if you like (or respect)the person it's ok if they have loose standards for breeding? Or just stating the obvious. Mistakes happen but I look it as the first one is a learning experience with huge consequences, the second one is lack of concern or proper care taken to prevent "accidents". And that person should be rethinking having an intact female in the first place.
I've had an open intact female for over 14 years (not the same dog but more than one). we've never had an accident.