54 replies to this topic

[Journey]

I've searched and can come up with no trials with this name. Does anyone know or can someone point me to a website with results?

Thanks!

Karen

[Liz P]

Are you asking because a certain breeder is advertising that their stud has won it several times?

[NCStarkey]

Hi Karen,

I believe that there is a Shepherd's Award given at the Irish Nationals. Could that be what you mean?

Regards,
nancy

[Journey]

Yes Liz. Especially since the one claim I've been able to track appears to belong to a litter sister....or placements were so far down as to be a non issue, but being touted as a big deal.

[NCStarkey]

Please fill us in about this breeder!

[jdarling]

It's (now taken down ... so don't search for it or click on the link you find...) I'll just invite them (he? she?) to the thread and perhaps they can tell us.

[Journey]

Take it down Jodi! Shoot why give them free advertisement

[NCStarkey]

Hi again,

It always amazes me how people (especially those in business to make money selling puppies) misrepresent the facts regarding the dogs that they are promoting. The statement that their stud dog won the "Irish Shepherds Nationals" is a deviation from the truth, as the "Irish Shepherds Nationals" doesn't exist.


Regards,
nancy

[Liz P]

What amazes me is that people are willing to shell out that much money without doing a little research. If they did they would find pups from good working bred litters that cost half as much.

There is a sucker born every minute.

[NCStarkey]

There is a sucker born every minute.

I sure can't argue with that, Liz.

[Journey]

Why do people have to inflate to this extent though. All this is pretty much verifiable via the net, it's not like you can't research. I asked as I wondered originally if people believe what they're told or ask for hard copy documentation for things like OFA and Cerf or DNA papers. Not expecting to find (or not find) what has been uncovered in this case. Wish this was the only case....

[Liz P]

I keep trying to think of a good answer, one that makes sense, but I find myself unable to do so.

There are people I trust. If they say a dog has passing scores I will believe them, but if I buy a pup I generally like to have a copy of the parents' results for my own records.

[jdarling]

FWIW, the breeder whose link I've removed wrote me back and said that It's held inside the irish nationals and that when he bought Brock, he was told it was called the farmers national.

By the way, he said he looked on link I sent him (to this thread), and he doesn't appreicate being refered to as the breeder that is misrespresenting their dog for the money. He said he doesn't need the advertisement that the one is afraid that he would get if he were to come on there. He said that he thinks it is very sad and hurts deeply to see people talking about him that dont have a clue who he is, and that if the name is misrepresented, that it wasnt on purpose of any gain for Brock. He is only going on what he is told. Said he has worked many years building the lines he has, and he has been working to put together lines that can produce nice working dogs with great temperaments.

[juliepoudrier]

But seriously, if someone has worked many years to build their lines of *working* border collies, wouldn't they know something about the history of the dogs, including things like the various Nationals held in the UK, especially if they're using imported dogs? I guess not. It says a lot, though, that the breeder didn't bother to check the veracity of the claims made by the person who sold him the dog in the first place, but instead just repeated that information on a website selling puppies. Like it or not, it's reminiscent of the practices of MAH and her ilk, where the claim to fame for all the pups produced is Int'l Supreme winners and the like back in the pedigree and not what the dog itself has done or can do. I didn't see this guy's website, so perhaps he also had current information that detailed the useful working ability of his dogs, but I often find that those who choose to tout the wins/performances of ancestors alone have a different agenda than those who detail current information.

And I don't know if this is the same guy or not, but SERIOUSLY if you are advertising pups on puppy sites all over the Internet, you are a BAD breeder. I wouldn't believe for a minute that a breeder advertising in such a way is really concerned about working ability of his lines. He's in the business of selling puppies, period. MAH springs to mind yet again....

J.

[NCStarkey]

Hello everyone,

Just a quick note for now, and I will write more later.

I think that it would be an easy task to copy the accurate information regarding the dog in question from the seller's website (where it is correctly listed, as verified through the ISDS website), rather than depend on memory when adding it to the new owner's website.

Regards,
nancy

[Pearse]

From the ISDS rules:

4.2 QUALIFYING TRIALS FOR THE INTERNATIONAL SUPREME (SINGLES)

(including the Farmer's Championship, the Shepherd's Championship and the Team Prize)

a. This trial consists of 15 dogs each from England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

b. This Trial is primarily to select the 15 highest pointed dogs, in order of merit, representing England, Ireland, Scotland and Wales respectively, to enter the Supreme Championship. A travelling reserve shall be the 16 dog. In addition, the top dog owned and handled by a Farmer in those trials will be entitled to the Farmer's Championship and the top dog owned and handled by a Hired Shepherd will be entitled to the Shepherd's Championship.

c. This Trial will also decide the Team Prize.

d. Each competitor shall be awarded the cash prize which he/she is entitled to by virtue of his/her position in the list, but only a Farmer shall be entitled to the Farmer's Cup and only a Hired Shepherd shall be entitled to the Shepherd's Trophy

Yep, seems like people should do a little homework before accusing other people of misrepresenting themselves.

[Journey]

Pearse, I don't follow. Does a dog have to be one of the top15 to be eligible? If so the dog in question wasn't. Is this Irish Shepherds National a trial or an award?

[Journey]

Ah, the award is to the highest pointed dog or bitch handled by a shepherd. Not a trial or win, an award. Certainly nothing to disparage, though extremely misleading in how it was presented by the US owner IMO.

Thanks to all. I should have kept digging but had no clue the Rumivite Cup was also the Irish Shepherd National.

[Pearse]

Ah, the award is to the highest pointed dog or bitch handled by a shepherd. Not a trial or win, an award. Certainly nothing to disparage, though extremely misleading in how it was presented by the US owner IMO.

Thanks to all. I should have kept digging but had no clue the Rumivite Cup was also the Irish Shepherd National.

Don't be pedantic. The US owner clearly knew only slightly more about this than you do and was not intentionally misleading anyone.