Posted 14 July 2010 - 08:32 AM
Hi Onice,
I just watched the videos, and one thing I would suggest is that you watch the series that Maja posted not very long ago and read through the responses to her videos. Much of what was said there would help you and Atlas as well.
I know you specifically asked for good critiques and not negative stuff, but I have to make some points about both videos. I hope you'll take my comments in the spirit in which they're intended, which is to help you and Atlas learn to work sheep properly.
First of all, there's way too much circling and virtually no fetching. It appears that you and your trainer are trying to work on that by the second video, but the trainer doesn't seem to be using her lunge whip with the bag attached very effectively. It would be better if she corrected him sooner--before he's already gotten around to their heads or practically behind you. The more he is allowed to circle, the more he will want to do so. It doesn't take many repetitions of a bad behavior for it to become ingrained. Some of this could be helped by you and the trainer moving more. If you would walk or jog backward and the sheep follow you, then when Atlas gets on balance, he will have something to do, which is bring the sheep to you as you continue to move backward. When you just stand there with the sheep at your feet, there's nothing for Atlas to do, and that is no doubt causing him some frustration and certainly causing the circling.
When sending him, I would take much more care in how I send him as well as his attitude. I saw many instances of you stepping into him to send him, flinging him out by his collar, and so on. All of those things are actually *causing* him to rush and dive in at the sheep. If you lie him down and then either walk partway out to the sheep or stay beside him but step away from the direction you want him to go, you might find that he will kick out to go around them instead of just diving in and flashing them. He should never cross in front of you to go get the sheep. He appears to have a good lie down, so perhaps you can lie him down, and then walk about halfway between him and the sheep, step to the side away from the direction you want him to go, and then shush him. As he starts around, you turn to face the sheep and start walking backward so that when he gets behind them, he can bring them forward to you. (You can see me doing some of this in the video I posted in this section of my Ranger at 11 months old if you can't visualize what I'm describing.)
Some of the issues you seem to be having when he does finally get behind them is that you and your trainer aren't moving. So the sheep have nowhere to go, and thus the dog can't move forward to fetch the sheep to you. Instead with the sheep standing still, he gets into their "bubble" where they feel threatened by him, which is why they turn and fight. Sheep have two choices: flight or fight. If you are physically blocking their ability to run away, then their only choice is to turn and fight. On the second video, around 5:32, although I understand that farmers might want dogs who are willing to grip, all I see here is harassment of the sheep. There are proper ways to teach gripping, but in this case it really looks to me like the sheep are turning on the dog because they are tired of the "slash and dash" and just want to dog to quit harassing them. If you and the trainer had continued to back up so that the sheep could follow and then that one turned on Atlas and he bit it and then backed off and gave it a chance to make the decision to follow the rest of the flock, that would have been appropriate. But what he was doing was not appropriate.
I think you would find Atlas' work much improved if you worked on sending him properly, with him having the right frame of mind, and then once he gets behind the sheep, you move backward with a little bit of speed (maybe even jogging, but at least walking quickly) to give Atlas the opportunity to bring the sheep forward to you. As soon as he starts to flank inappropriately, use the whip to block him, while still moving backward so that it will *feel right* for him to be behind the sheep. Once he's reliably trying to fetch the sheep to you, you can work on putting some pace on him.
I don't know anything about the typical sheep in Iceland, but that group appeared very heavy and slow to me. If this were my dog, I'd probably use fewer sheep to lighten them up a bit. More sheep = more pressure on the dog, and so the larger number of sheep could actually be creating some of the tension he's feeling, which is exhibiting itself in the diving and grabbing and his tail coming up on flanks and when you send him after the sheep.
Some of the things you say annoy you are the result of a dog who isn't sure what he's supposed to be doing and so is just trying to make things happen. If you and your trainer are more proactive in helping him to be right, then he will stop being so frenzied about the whole thing and begin to settle his mind and start working with more thought.
He looks like a talented dog, and he's plenty keen; it's up to you to channel that properly.
If you haven't watched the DVDs by Derek Scrimgeour (A Hill Shepherd Trains his Border Collies), it might help to watch it (or even get Derek's or Julie Simpson's books, which have clear explanations and good diagrams) to help you understand what the basic picture should look like when you are training a young dog.
I hope some of these comments help.
J.
I know nothing with any certainty, but the sight of stars makes me dream. ~Vincent van Gogh
Julie Poudrier
Oxford, NC
Willow, Farleigh, Boy (3/1995-10/2010, RIP), Jill (8/1996-5/2012, RIP), Twist (the troll), Katty Rat, Little Miss Larky Malarky, Phoebe (the rabid possum), Pipit (aka Goober), Ranger Danger, and Kestrel (aka Messy Kessie)
Willow's Rest, Tunis sheep and mule sheep
Willow's Rest Farm blog
