Border Collie Collapse BCC or EIC Genetic Study at U of MN Options

[Denise Wall]

Denise,
Thanks for supplying the tape of your dog. I have several questions on this, the first ones for you about your dog.

What level of fitness would you have described your dog to be in at the time of this tape? Was he affected in the past no matter what his fitness level and was it to the same degree all the time?

I always kept him quite fit. He was very fit when the video was made. I never saw any correlation with the number or severity of episodes that related to his fitness level.

Did you put him into water after this happened and if so, did that help him recover or did he need to rest several minutes to help him out?

I took him to water unless we were too far away and he needed to rest some first. I let him decide if he wanted to go in water or not. He almost always went in. It was not always hot when he had these episodes so he may not have gone in when it was cool. I would say when he went in water it helped cool him down but I can't say if it helped him to recover from the back leg weakness/stiffness faster. Also, he was not always panting very hard when it happened, though he usually was.

[2 Devils]

My bc is in fairly good condition. Her first episode happened when it was maybe 70 degrees and no humidity. We were only out for a few minutes playing frisbee. She did get a new frisbee that day and was overly excited. The week before it was 80-90 degrees and high humidity and we played more thjose days then on the day she collapsed. After we came inside she seemed ok but within a few minutes I started hearing one of the dogs crate doors banging and I looked back and their was Tempe falling over, getting back up and falling over again. I grabbed a dish towel, wet it down, picked up Tempe and headed upstairs to the box fan. We sat in front of that a few minutes and she cooled down. I would say less than 10 minutes later she was perfectly fine again. A couple weeks later the dogwalkers played outside on another cool day and knowing to be careful did not play long. Tempe got wobbly in the backend so they cooled her down and she was fine shortly after that. Another dogwalker was playing with Tempe and she seemed fine outside. Once they got inside and it was time to go to the crates, Tempe seemed out of it. Kelly said Tempe seemed to be zoning out and couldn't follow a command. She did not even recognize Kelly opening the cookie jar which usually has the dogs running for their crates. Tempe proceeded to stay around awhile longer and cooled Tempe down some. Not long after she was fine again.

I did look up what to look for and how to handle and created a printed document that I left on Tempe's crate just in case there were some issues. I am glad I did.

Whether there is a BCC or not I am glad research is being done. It is the only way to find answers or rule out things.

[IPSY]

I havent read all the threads , but is this the same as a horse "tying up" ?
I always "warm up" and "cool down" my dogs before and after agility practice or trials . But who really does that before throwing around the old tennis ball ?
Very scary. I will read the other posts and look at the video , and from what I did read , its hard to watch , but if it opens your eyes to something that may be prevented , Im all for it.

[Pipedream Farm]

I pulled this off of a web page written by a veterinarian about EIC. What I would like to know from an expert is, can you really tell the difference between mild overheating/heatstroke and EIC just from observing the dog?

Liz,

We also had a dog that had these episodes even in cool weather. The episodes appear to me to be linked to high mental excitement in conjunction with anaerobic activity. The dogs breathing can appear normal during the activity but when the activity is ceased their physical state deteriorates: increased breathing, more forceful breathing, loss of balance, loss of control of their back legs, clenched jaw, etc. These symptoms arise 1-5 mins after physical exertion is ceased; often while walking off the field or after having left the field. It's as if their mind does not realize that their body is in anaerobic distress until the object of their focus has been removed and as if they were not breathing enough during the physical activity.

Mark

[Katie Minor, RN]

We are definitely interested in Border Collies with good pedigree info available; but if you have an affected dog, we're happy to get samples from them as well.

Pedigrees are important, but well characterized collapse information is even more so.

Thanks!

Katie

ps. Here is a video of a Labrador Retriever EIC episode, note that in Retrievers the rear limbs are very floppy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7wE471AuGE


--
Katie Minor
University of Minnesota

[Jedismom]

Jedi has gone through this several times. He is in excellent shape. It doesn't seem to matter if it's hot, cool, or the length of time he's engaged in the activity. What seems to matter is the activity itself, and it's always been when retrieving a ball intensely. When it happens, he stumbles around, weaving as if drunk. He is zoned out and does not respond. I make him sit still, or carry him inside and he recovers after about 5 min. I have learned to watch him carefully, take frequent breaks, and make our sessions more low key. I have seen that video of the lab before and Jedi's episodes look nothing like that. All four legs are effected, really his whole system is, because when he's in the moment, he will not be responding to me and looking to play like that lab was. I really agree with Mark's assessment of it.

I had some bloodwork done right after one of the episodes. I don't know if that would be helpful to you. My vet said there was something off in the bloodwork. I'm sorry I can't remember exactly what it was. In order to further investigate, it would have been hundreds of dollars more worth of bloodwork, and I decided at the time not to do it, because it's not affecting his quality of life right now. She also asked me to take his temperature during the episode but I haven't done it yet. It hasn't happened since last July, and that was because a friend's son got carried away throwing the ball, and I was busy and did not notice that it was going on for too long. I think it's great that this is going to be studied. I would love to know if there is anything I can do to help him with this.

[Dal & Mad's Mom]

Here's a video of my (now-retired) dog, Zeke, from a few years ago having what I consider a mild episode after no more than ten minutes of light work on a mildly hot but humid day:

Border collie EIC-like episode

Note towards the end, he starts to trot and looks pretty normal for a few strides but when he walks again, he's dragging his back legs much worse than before.

Thanks for showing the video it's so obvious he's struggling to control his back legs. Poor baby. I may have seen this before and thought a dog had briefly hurt his back.

[MyTDogs]

My Sprite suffers from this condition. She was born & bred here in Florida (ABC-working lines) and has grown up in the heat. The first episode was when she was maybe 6 months old- playing with a jolly ball in the yard while we were farm sitting. It was very brief & I don't think I realized what really happened until the next day when she did the same thing while we were playing in the garden hose. Sprite is a 150% kind of dog...very intense. Her most severe episodes have been at agility where she was over the top. She is a very biddable dog & very good in the house & around stock, has an off switch, etc. However, I spent a year just trying to get her in the gate at agility class without her going ballistic. There were many nights where I would have to carry her out without ever getting a single run. We could only really have success if we took private lessons and came to the ring as it was our turn to run.

I consulted with Dr. Robert Gilette at Auburn to see if he had any ideas (sports medicine vet dealing with EIC in Labs). He asked me to run some blood work in series; 1 set at rest, 1 set when looking at agility equipment, 1 set after working for 1 minute & 1 set after 5 minutes or so. The only thing different on the panels was her cortisol level, it doubled after beginning to work. Dr. Gillette didn't really have any info for me & all the blood work was about my limit so I never really got anywhere with the info.

During an episode Sprite is not ataxic (as I think of it anyway). She is not weak or flaccid. She will get very stiff, to the point she can barely move her legs. Other than the obvious desire to keep "working" she looks nothing like the lab with EIC and much worse than Zeke (he seems to be bending his knees okay). In the early days I'd recognize a problem when I'd hear the tops of her feet dragging when she tried to walk. Both front & rear legs were like 2x4's swinging with feet flopping at the bottom. It was as if the only freely movable joint was her wrist. If I'd lay her on her side, the top side (front & rear) legs stick straight out & do not settle towards the ground. They can not be bent & it is obvious she is not resisting. The episodes usually relsolve in 10-20 minutes.

I have tried any and all methods to prevent & resolve the episodes. I tried water, dunking & drinking, I tried to ensure she ate before exercise, I tried the energy edge (maltodextrin) products. I tried electrlyte mixes, I fed more carbs, I fed less carbs. Mainly I think stopping agility has had the most impact. She gets very mentally stimulated in that environment & as I mentioned it was often enough to send her over the edge never having run a single sequence.

She has occasional episodes at our herding lessons. The last one I remember was after 5 minutes in the round pend where I was trying to soften her flanks a bit. Sprite is 6yo now & last fall we were running in a trial & for the first time I saw her want to lay down. We were stuck at the pen and I encouraged her to continue on & she did but I could tell she was hot. When we left the field we went straight to the pool & she cooled off just fine. She didn't get stiff or show any other signs and was fine to run again later that day. I think herding requires a lot more concentration & so she doesn't get crazed like in agility. She can sit quietly at a trial no problem.

It definitely has a strong mental component with Sprite. Once she had an episode after walking around the block at 7am (she was really excited to go)- I took her temp then & it was only 104*. I have measured her temps over 108* and she wasn't in collapse. She has always been very fit & it anything, her episodes have diminished now that she is a bit older & may have put on a pound or 2.

HTH,
Cindy in FL

[appyridr]

Excellent video Denise. Very very similar to what my dogs exhibited. I have an 8 yr.old who had perhaps half a dozen episodes between age 2-4 but none in the last 3-4 yrs. Blair is 8 now & has outgrown it. I believe it was mostly caused by training stress combined with high physical activity. NOT heat as it happened in winter & summer. I live in the very mild temperate climate of the west coast of Canada. I have competed in two trials where he came close to over-heating but exhibited no signs of EIC/BCC. 85 degrees would be unusually hot for us which we normally only get for a few days once or twice per summer. Rarely below freezing in the winter. We were at the Lacamas trial in 2008 when it was 103 degrees; our run was in the middle of the day, plus it was a much bigger outrun/course than what we usually do, I could see Blair was overheating so I sent him to water but no sign of wobbly back legs or dragging toes. The other trial was close to 85 degrees and in my inexperience over-worked him in the shedding ring. He went to water right away but no signs.
A friend owns his daughter who is like a clone of him in temperament and work ethic; keen, fast, BTTW. She had a few episodes when young and seems to be outgrowing them as well. She is now 5.
I own his 2 yr.old son who has had a three episodes most recently in the last month on a cool rainy dayl Owen is very different in temperament than father; slower, careful, lacking in confidence somewhat on sheep.
I also own two others related to these guys who have never had an episode; one is half sibling to Blair and like him in temperament and work ethic. The other is same way bred as Owen's mother and like him in temperament. Go figure.
All four dogs were started by professional trainers around 12mos. of age. Never exhibited signs of it with them. Being an inexperienced handler not yet able to adjust really well to different types of dogs, I train/handle pretty much the same way with all four dogs.
Two of Blair's siblings also had a few episodes when they were young but not anymore. Their owners assumed it was due to over-heating.

regards Lani Dorman, Langley BC

[Tassie]

I've seen one episode of what I believe was this in my Border Collie bitch. She was about 3 or 4 at the time, and on a mild day, we were trying to gather a mob of about 70 superfine Merino weaner lambs in a sloping paddock. The lambs were being very uncooperative, even though they did have a few dry ewes in with them. Kirra seemed to stop being able to process commands, and then I noticed her legs - rear particularly - wobbling. I stopped her and went over to her and carried her down to my trainer's truck - no stock tank handy, but I doused her belly with the water we had in the truck. She recovered pretty well within five or 10 minutes - but I didn't try to work her again that day. She is a Barbie Collie, but lean and fit. I haven't seen any similar episode with her since, either in the farm sheep work we were able to do in the six months or so after that, or in agility, even in warmer weather.

Strangely enough on that very same day, one of my trainer's working bred dogs (a rough coated bitch about 4 or 5) suffered a similar episode. She was working sheep in the yards - a pressure situation for her, since she was more of a paddock dog. Same symptoms - inability to process commands, followed by wobbliness. A dunking in the stock tank saw the symptoms resolve fairly quickly, although of course she wasn't worked again that day.

So on the basis of observing those two incidents, it does seem to me that they were not cases of overheating - but there was a very strong component of mental stress. Both dogs were somewhat over-faced with the task at hand, but both had a fairly strong work ethic, and were trying their best to carry out thier task.

(I can't see the video, unfortunately, to make a comparison.)

[Rebecca, Irena F...]

I had a bitch, littermate to one of the dogs mentioned here, who also had very, very mild symptoms of this. It was so subtle I never would have thought anything of it until my friend who has her littermate mentioned having issues. If she were a hard core livestock working dog, I bet you'd never notice. The reason for this is that the usual routine of work - steady work, then calm rest, then return to steady work - did NOT trigger it.

It was during intense training type sessions, or play, that it would pop up, and only if it was COOL enough to where she wouldn't just plop down after the activity. That was the thing that was odd until I figured it out - it only showed up if it was cool enough that she'd be putzing around about the time it hit, which was a few minutes after she started resting. Her symptoms were just the faintest ataxia and hind end instability.

I'm pretty sure from watching it in other dogs that it has something to do with dogs that work "hot" in the brain. Maybe Denise can comment but one thing I've noticed is that in dogs that work, the more settled they get into their jobs, the less it seems to pop up. My observations, of course, are strictly casual in nature so I'm just sort of rambling here.

I do think it's important to pin this down. Once upon a time we had the work to cull out these types of issues in the breed, but unless we want to say that only hill shepherds and range cattle drovers are allowed to breed Border Collies, it would be nice to find out what's going on, on a clinical level.

Thank you Ms Minor for coming and announcing this here, and thank you to those who have been open with these issues in the breed. I hope your leadership will result in better future working dogs.

[Rave]

It's as if their mind does not realize that their body is in anaerobic distress until the object of their focus has been removed and as if they were not breathing enough during the physical activity.

That is EXACTLY what happens to Rave. It appears she holds her breath while intensely focusing. I've taught her a "relax" command and it's a visible difference when she relaxes and starts breathing again. Her tongue literally falls out of her mouth. When she was young, I had the vet check her heart and physical wellness a number of times because it always took her about 3 times as long to recover from exercise as my other dog (all else being equal). I'm pretty sure the reason is from her "holding her breath" while focused. She's my dog who's had severe episodes of overheating (and/or collapse??) and a vet recommended B12 injections.

I'd love to send in a sample of her and my other dog, who also collapses, but I just moved and don't know any vets who would just draw blood w/o going through exams on both. If I make it down to NC, I have a vet friend who can draw it.

It's worth noting that though they are working-bred, both my dogs are sport dogs and VERY excitable.

[ness_bc]

My youngster had another bad episode earlier in the week . Not overly warm and very sudden.

[flyer]

I have always been a bit dismayed that it has always taken Colt (15 mos.) a long time to have his breathing come to normal after intense ball play. He also seems to overheat pretty quickly even in cool weather. I have managed this really well as in play for five minutes or so then we walk or swim, then more ball or frisbee play and walk for awhile or swim.

Last summer though, we were at a soccer game and my son's friends got playing with him after the game, only for about 10 minutes, but he collapsed as we left the field. It was a hot day and I thought heat stroke, I doused him with water from the fountain under his leg pits and chest and groin. He got up in under 10 minutes as if nothing had happened.

I have never seen him at all ataxic. I have always wondered if he had EIC/BCC. Does this sound like it could be?

[Star]

Denise,
Thanks for supplying the tape of your dog. I have several questions on this, the first ones for you about your dog.

What level of fitness would you have described your dog to be in at the time of this tape? Was he affected in the past no matter what his fitness level and was it to the same degree all the time?
Did you put him into water after this happened and if so, did that help him recover or did he need to rest several minutes to help him out?

Questions for anyone--does this EIC in retrievers have any similarities to tying up in a horse?

When the dog has an attack are the symptoms a result of weakness , lapse in nerve function, or maybe a combination? Is it painful for the dog?

Thanks for you time .
Carolyn

Tying Up was my exact first thought when I read the first post and when I watched the video. I had a mare that tied up. We treated with Banamine and blanketed her. After that I was simply very careful about warm up and, especially, cool down during hot weather. She never tied up again, thank goodness. Could they have related causes (though, as I understand it, it's still not clear exactly what causes tying)?

[Katie Minor, RN]

Border Collie Collapse (BCC) Update

In conjunction with the BCC genetic study taking place at the University of Minnesota, Dr. Sue Taylor at the University of Saskatchewan will be evaluating Border collies with BCC during and following participation in a strenuous exercise protocol this summer. Dogs that chase a ball will be evaluated with a 10 minute ball retrieving protocol and dogs that work stock will be evaluated with a 10 minute sheep herding exercise protocol consisting of a series of outruns and fetches of 3 sheep in an outdoor pen. Exercise will be halted immediately (before 10 minutes) at the first sign of any lameness, weakness, in-coordination, extreme exhaustion or mental confusion.

Dogs participating in this phase of the study should be intense and physically fit and must have experienced at least 2 episodes of collapse with exercise. They should be fairly severely affected by BCC, so that they are likely to show signs with 10 minutes or less of intense exercise. Physical, orthopedic and neurological examinations, blood tests, chest radiographs, cardiac ultrasound and ECG will be performed to eliminate other common medical and cardiac causes of exercise intolerance. Blood samples and physiologic variables will then be evaluated before and after participation in 10 minutes or less of strenuous exercise. A small muscle biopsy from the rear leg of each affected dog will then be taken under general anesthesia. All testing will be performed at no cost to the owner.

Sheep herding protocol scheduled: June 28, 29, 30, 2010
Ball chasing protocol flexible scheduling June-August.


If you have an affected Border collie that could travel to Saskatoon, Saskatchewan and participate in this study (either chasing a ball or herding sheep) please contact Dr. Sue Taylor at the University of Saskatchewan.

sue.taylor@usask.ca

University of Minnesota BCC Webpage

http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vbs/faculty/Mickels...ieEIC/home.html

[gcv-border]

First, to help understand the symptoms described, I think that it is essential to have an objective study done to accurately describe the symptoms and then to determine if there is a physiologic or mental or genetic basis. I am very glad that research funds will be applied toward this end.

Based on several anecdotes such as the one referenced below, maybe we should call it BCCCS (Border Collie Concentration Collapse Syndrome) Just a joke :>)

Cheers,
Jovi


Liz,

We also had a dog that had these episodes even in cool weather. The episodes appear to me to be linked to high mental excitement in conjunction with anaerobic activity. The dogs breathing can appear normal during the activity but when the activity is ceased their physical state deteriorates: increased breathing, more forceful breathing, loss of balance, loss of control of their back legs, clenched jaw, etc. These symptoms arise 1-5 mins after physical exertion is ceased; often while walking off the field or after having left the field. It's as if their mind does not realize that their body is in anaerobic distress until the object of their focus has been removed and as if they were not breathing enough during the physical activity.

Mark

[Katie Minor, RN]

Hello,

Dr. Sue Taylor at the University of Saskatchewan is still looking for a few more Border Collies with collapse to participating in a ball chasing exercise physiology study. Shipping charges or gas money may be reimbursable. Please email Dr. Taylor if you are interested in participating in the exercise study sue.taylor@usask.ca

Please click this link for more details:

http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vbs/faculty/Mickels...Study/index.htm


If you are unable to travel to participate in our physiology studies, we are still recruiting dogs for the genetic study. Please click here for more information:


http://www.cvm.umn.edu/vbs/faculty/Mickels...ieEIC/home.html


Thank you,
Katie Minor

University of Minnesota
minork@umn.edu

[ThunderHill]

I have a littermate of Tempe. (A male dog, "Gift.") He works my small farmette at home and does some occasional trialing, up to Pro/Novice. Gift has never had a full-fledged incident of the type described here, but he is definitely more heat intolerant than average. I've learned not to run him in summer trials -- not because he collapses, but because when the mercury is over 85F he slows way down. (Possibly in self-protection.)

The only symptom he's displayed (after, say, doing a Novice-level course in humid 90 degree weather) is zoning out. He'll start out fine, but some time after the outrun he appears to get uncertain or vague about taking his commands, reacts more slowly than usual, and if asked to cover, runs at a slow-motion lope (instead of his preferred gallop), as though he's just pushing his feet out blindly. But (so far; and I'm not pushing it) he's shown no loss of control of back end, etc.

He has a short but extremely dense coat, double, like a good Corgi. (On the "plus" side, he never seems to feel the cold even in the worst winter storms. And he was out during record breaking blizzards this past winter.) He also has VERY pale gums, to the point that a new vet I took him to took one look under his lip, frowned, and asked to do blood work on him. (The bood work came back with all super-healthy results. He also has a terrific, healthy low athlete's heart rate.)

Interestingly, he is one of the calmest and most sensible dogs I know. Very steady. Great dog for working in difficult small spaces. He can get anxious (he seems to really want to be "right" and worries when he doesn't understand what he's supposed to be doing) but he's seldom particularly intense or wound up. I wonder if that mental composure helps keep him from the more extreme symptoms? And if so, whether he's learned to stay "cool" mentally to protect himself, or if he's just fortunate to have been born that way.

I know of at least one other littermate who doesn't cope well in the heat, but not as extreme as Tempe. In addition, I believe their mother has also had at least one known heat collapse, but she was working hard in very hot (90F) very humid weather, so it's not possible to ID whether it's the same problem.

If the research program could use littermate samples (even from a relatively unaffected sibling) I'll be glad to contribute.

Liz S in South Central PA

My bc is in fairly good condition. Her first episode happened when it was maybe 70 degrees and no humidity. We were only out for a few minutes playing frisbee. She did get a new frisbee that day and was overly excited. The week before it was 80-90 degrees and high humidity and we played more thjose days then on the day she collapsed. After we came inside she seemed ok but within a few minutes I started hearing one of the dogs crate doors banging and I looked back and their was Tempe falling over, getting back up and falling over again. I grabbed a dish towel, wet it down, picked up Tempe and headed upstairs to the box fan. We sat in front of that a few minutes and she cooled down. I would say less than 10 minutes later she was perfectly fine again. A couple weeks later the dogwalkers played outside on another cool day and knowing to be careful did not play long. Tempe got wobbly in the backend so they cooled her down and she was fine shortly after that. Another dogwalker was playing with Tempe and she seemed fine outside. Once they got inside and it was time to go to the crates, Tempe seemed out of it. Kelly said Tempe seemed to be zoning out and couldn't follow a command. She did not even recognize Kelly opening the cookie jar which usually has the dogs running for their crates. Tempe proceeded to stay around awhile longer and cooled Tempe down some. Not long after she was fine again.

I did look up what to look for and how to handle and created a printed document that I left on Tempe's crate just in case there were some issues. I am glad I did.

Whether there is a BCC or not I am glad research is being done. It is the only way to find answers or rule out things.

[MrSnappy]

Piper went down yesterday afternoon. We'd recently returned from a trip to the beach, and she was playing a short game of soccer with the dogs of a friend who stopped by for a visit. It was hot but not unreasonably so - it's the first time this year she's gone wobbly on me, and the first since her two episodes last year.

In class last night, my classmate's dog went down halfway through his run too. Once she'd wetted him down and rested him, he was able to continue class.

RDM