More women handlers - is it changing the border collie? Options

[Tommy Coyote]

Just as an aside: remember Susan Butcher who ran and won the Iditarod? The good ole boys made horrible fun of her because she treated her dogs well. The assumption was that if you are soft on your dogs they will not be tough enough. And boy did she prove them wrong. She was always good to her dogs and they paid her back by winning over and over.

I absolutely hate the abuse of these dogs. The only thing it proves is that the handler is out of control of his temper.

[Tommy Coyote]

Hello all
I appreciate what Julie said, especially the bit about training abuse. This discussion is such an over-simplied generalization as to be laughable and I've stayed out of it up till now for that reason. My feeling is that there is a pervasive, sexist, predjudice against women in dog trialing that is even perpetuated by women.

We have tremendously talented women handlers in this country who not only can and do run "hard" dogs, but "soft" dogs as well and beat all comers handily with either and make it look easy. But who do you see in the judge's/clinician's chair? More often than not, it's a reasonably attractive man with an "aw shucks" persona who may have an accent or a well-shaped cowboy hat and may or may not have the slightest idea what they're doing. Some don't even have real success on which to hang that well-shaped hat. Others have just some veiled perception of success that may be 20 years old and far beyond actual knowledge of the woman who hired him.

Culture overseas has kept many women out of dogs, but international exchange and the likes of Anna Krueger, Karin Mattson, Julie Hill, and the Croppers are changing that slowly but steadily. We don't have that excuse over here and I think it has more to do with pettiness, jealousy and ego. Women have been evenly competing against men in the horse world forever, and it's never a question of who rides the harder horse. Talent is talent and it's the same with dogs.

Whether man or woman, everybody has a preference for a particular type of dog, but real talent shows when you can be successful with anything. For me, it's not about a hard or soft dog, but how well I can train and handle a good dog.

I was reading McCaig's Border Wars yesterday and he stated that in the early years of the trialing thing here in this country that women were " barely tolerated." That's kind of the way i remember it, too. Ethel Conrad was out there and there were a few other women but they seemed to be real characters and I don't know how well they did.

And Liv in Scotland was really making a name for herself and was well respected, I think.

Do you think that the judges still disciminate against women? Or are the women at least getting a fair shake there?

[Pam Wolf]

Just as an aside: remember Susan Butcher who ran and won the Iditarod? The good ole boys made horrible fun of her because she treated her dogs well. The assumption was that if you are soft on your dogs they will not be tough enough. And boy did she prove them wrong. She was always good to her dogs and they paid her back by winning over and over.

I absolutely hate the abuse of these dogs. The only thing it proves is that the handler is out of control of his temper.

LOL! You are dating yourself Remember my old dog, Pi and how the GOB's would sneer when she sat in my lap or did stupid pet tricks then went out and beatthe pants off them.

[Tommy Coyote]

LOL! You are dating yourself Remember my old dog, Pi and how the GOB's would sneer when she sat in my lap or did stupid pet tricks then went out and beatthe pants off them.

Sigh! Pi was such a good dog. I really miss all those old guys. We had such a good time with them.

Did you see where Ethel Conrad died this year? Boy, she had a good run. She must have been in her 90's. I think Susan Butcher died a couple of years ago of cancer. She died way too young.

[Jeanne Joy]

It seems the lack of real work is the largest contributor for breed changes. In today's hobby world, most people have to create jobs for their dogs. Their flock is maintained on a small number of acres in fenced properties. The sheep could be managed just as easily with a grain bucket. Strong, determined dogs need consistently hard, continuous work to keep the edge off. Otherwise, they are a fist full of reins. Difficult stock in rough terrain weeds out weak dogs.

[Lana]

I completely agree Jeanne.

Lana

[Katelynn & Gang]

I like the brat of the litter.

My two favorite dogs (working wise and just in general any sort of working/training) are my two hardest. I like dogs that push me as much as I push them and then some.

Not that I do much of working dogs these days.

[Mariji]

I have always been one to pick the softer dog (and i am female), my first girl i picked because of her colour but also because she was the little one sitting at the back. I picked the softer at the time because my training was not where i could cope with a hard dog. Since I have learnt a wealth of information my next puppy i wanted something harder. I wanted a challenged, i wanted to be pushed and to be able to push back. And so came Echo. My little ball of hellishly naughtiness all wrapped up in a cute white fluffy exterior that only means people get sucked in faster.

I do see the argument but i do believe that it depends of what the dog is being used for. Also with past experiences. I got a soft dog first because i grew up with soft submissive dogs. But my agility and training side called for something slightly more, well.... challenging. I do believe because of where i grew up also that men would tend for a harder looking and harder in attitude dog though. And the women would prefer the little fluffy type. Saying this i have seen ALOT lately of big hard looking men with cute little clipped "maltesers" as i like to call them and women with bull mastiffs.