AKC to allow mixed breeds in competitions, well, kind of Options

[Rave]

http://www.akc.org/news/index.cfm?article_id=3810

translation = We want your money, but don't want your dogs to beat ours and show people that mixed breed dogs are just as good as our beloved purebred dogs, as that would go against everything AKC has ever bragged about.

[PSmitty]

Ugh. They came so close...but making it a separate class just negates anything positive I could have seen in it.

[in2adventure]

OMG

[SoloRiver]

What are the odds that clubs will actually add mix classes? That would mean running every class twice.

I love the way the mixed-breed classes are excluded from breed events, like having mixes around would taint the venue or something.

[ShoresDog]

"Mixed breed dogs would compete in separate class divisions from AKC purebred dogs."

Chicken!!!

[SS Cressa]

What are the odds that clubs will actually add mix classes? That would mean running every class twice.

No it just means longer classes.

In excellent it goes Excellent B, then A, then preferred.

Now it will go Exc B, A, P, then mix or something like that. Same course just more dogs/longer day

[MaggieDog]

Yea gag me with a spoon. Separate classes that may or may not be offered at events?! Only offered at shows not in association with conformation? Did I read that right? Mixes still can't compete in tracking, lure coursing, etc., just agility, rally, and obedience.

If anything they've just made me even MORE anti-AKC...

[Root Beer]

If anything they've just made me even MORE anti-AKC...

Yes, and it makes me more inclined to support CPE and NADAC (and the other venues if we ever participate in any of those), where my mix and I have been welcomed a equals the whole time, even more than ever.

[PSmitty]

Does anyone know if this decision was based on say, a vote of membership or something, or was it strictly a "management" decision? I mean, I don't know of anyone who does AKC agility around here who agrees with the separate class BS. Even people who are pretty much pro-AKC.

[JBlaylock]

I'm just curious, are most people here pro-AKC?

I am against it. My beliefs: I believ in creation, and when you look at a dog's DNA, the gene responisble for subtle changes between generations (which are present in all species) are far more active in dogs; drastic changes can be present in just a few generations, UNLESS man interferes with selective breeding...much more drastic changes than would be found in non Canidae species. So, my belief is that our creator created a few different breeds, and intended for them to mix and multiply, creating an endless number of unique dogs. Otherwise, why would he have programmed that gene to be so much more active in them? Anyways, that's just my belief. I love muts, I love purebreeds too and I'm sure our creator does as well, just as a parent would love a child they may not have planned on. However, the AKC just rubs me the wrong way with their pompus self-righteous attitudes and exlusiveness. Who are they to judge what should be a standard in a breed? There was a very interesting book that came ou last year - I think it was last year - about the battle between the Border Collie and the AKC. Did anybody read this book or have any comments on it?

[Debbie Meier]

Does anyone know if this decision was based on say, a vote of membership or something, or was it strictly a "management" decision? I mean, I don't know of anyone who does AKC agility around here who agrees with the separate class BS. Even people who are pretty much pro-AKC.

There was a survey out a couple of years ago, it was more asking if you thought mixed breeds should be able to compete, if you thought the clubs could get more entries, etc. There was a slew of questions, I think one question was about if they should be in with the purebreds or in their own class, but I might be mistaken.

What is the problem with them running in their own class? From reading the info page it just sounded like you run the AKC dogs followed by the mixed breeds, it didn't sound like you have to do much else, compile all the entries sort them with mixed breeds at the end, run your class and determine placing by the two seperate divisions. Was there any reason that the individual club could not offer an overall placing that did not go to AKC putting the two divisions together? In other sports we have participated in we all ran the same course in an order based on skill level, the results were sorted different ways, overall, top male, top female, top of each skill level.

I don't run AKC and don't have any intentions on it, but I guess I also don't understand the issues. Depending on your situation it could be a great thing or not such a great thing. I could see that if you had a club that was small and lacked entries openning it to mixed breeds would be a great thing, but then a club that has a huge following not need the extra entries. By promoting mix breeds as spay/neutered it takes the pressure of the ILP deal, it should reduce the number of ILP dogs that really are not one breed or another but have been let in, they could actually eliminate it, so that all the dogs in the AKC registered classes are just that.


Deb

[Shetlander]

Does anyone know if this decision was based on say, a vote of membership or something, or was it strictly a "management" decision? I mean, I don't know of anyone who does AKC agility around here who agrees with the separate class BS. Even people who are pretty much pro-AKC.

There is usually a period for people to comment on proposed changes/additions to regs. Sadly, there are truly some people out there how act as though having mixed breeds at a show would be degrading somehow to their superior canine examples and their high standards. Some of the things I've read on lists were fairly ugly on the subject, though I think those people are in the minority. Add to that, the whole purpose of the AKC is to "promote" the purebred dog that puts them in a bit of a corner as far as letting mongrels compete against and worse possibly beat purebreeds.

For whatever reason, the UKC doesn't have this issue and has been allowing and encouraging mixes to compete in performance events on an equal footing. If a mixed breed places first, then that is because they peformed the best out of all the dogs that day. I've even seen a couple of three legged dogs (which the AKC would never allow), one of which was a mix not only compete but win/place in obedience and agility. Very different attitude and one I've always admired.

[Laurelin]

There was a survey a while back on the mixed breeds thing. The responses were interesting.

First of all, this was done very poorly. I'd have been happier if they just said 'no mixed breeds allowed!' and stuck to their guise of 'promoting the purebred dog'. But no, this way they can kinda sorta allow mixed breeds but at the same time, I think it is highly unlikely individual clubs will actually add on mixed breed classes. Agility trials already fill up FAST as is. And they can also still assert the 'superiority of the purebred' while kind of allowing mixed breeds to compete. I don't really have as much a problem about mixed breeds having their own class, but then to say they have their own pseudo knock off titles it gets very insulting imo. And the part about not allowing mixed breeds at trials where conformation is going on is ridiculous. Most AKC obedience and agility trials here have a conformation show as well (money comes from the conf shows generally) so how are mixed breeds supposed to compete anyways? I understand not having mixed breeds at specialties- that makes sense, but to not allow them at conformation events is just messed up. Do they think they'll contaminate the ring or something?

Imo if they wanted to allow mixed breeds then allow them and set up something like an ILP. If they didn't want to allow mixed breeds, then just don't! The way they're allowing it now is not stupid and insulting and quite frankly a half arsed money grab.

I'm not the most anti-AKC person around and have competed in it before with my papillons, but I think it's pretty obvious what this is about.

[Lenajo]

We know AKC did this for the money; trying to backdoor more revenue around the anti-mutt people. I knew there were a few of those, but OMG.... its way worse that that. I'm still reeling from what I've seen, heard, and read locally alone. Comments that if applied to humans are racist and bigoted beyond belief.

It is the vote/view of almost 50% of AKC delegates/clubs that has resulted in the the twisting of what could have been a great program.

More or less mutts are in if they pay, but only "at the back of the bus". They will even allow a club to insist on seperate sit and down stay exercises. I guess in cause one of those mutts "goes bad" and turns on their purebred.

One of the comments made by a prominent toy dog breeder regarding the obedience issue was "first is was the Border Collies winning everything, and now they want the da*n mutts in there too. I won't stand for it!"

I'm still ROFL. The AKC needs money so bad they are turning on the purebred fanatics they created.

It's almost as reprehensibly funny as when ASCA people went ballistic over the Border Collies coming to their events and kicking butt there. In fact, I think I heard many of the same comments

I want to see mutts in the AKC obedience ring. It'd put a nice light on the program and might actually put a glimmer of hope on AKC finding some proper use for it's need for funds.

AKC has its sights on Flyball folks. If you don't want it, you better get ready to fight. The last hurdle was how to include the mixed breeds that Flyball favors.

[Lenajo]

Agility trials already fill up FAST as is.

I don't do AKC agility but I've helped a friend with the paperwork, plus I run USDAA. I think AKC needs to take some lessons from USDAA in how to run a trial. USDAA can have 4 times the runs, 6 types of clases, no limits on entries, and they get done each day just fine

AKC people have a fit if they have to do a FAST class in addition to the 2 regular classes. wth is up with that?

[Jumpin Boots]

Just last night I went to dinner with some friends from my agility classes and before I had even sat down was presented with a copy of these forms. I tried, as politely as possible to decline, although I might have come off as a bit of a snot. But anyway, I think it's a complete joke, they don't want purebred dogs to get shown up by mixed breeds. Since they will be running the same course, just being placed differently people will still be able to go compare scores and the snide mix dog comments will still fly. That doesn't even sound pleasant to me, the thought of going to a dog show only to have people put your dog down, completely not worth it to me. But more importantly for me, the choice to compete in this new class comes down to your opinions and belief about AKC. I don't agree with what AKC does to dogs, so therefore I wouldn't attend AKC events, and even now, that I would be allowed to, I still won't. Because I still don't agree with the breeding standards. When they change those standards and quit supporting the production of dogs with brains that don't fit in their heads and the like, then I will consider supporting the AKC.

[Rave]

This was sent to me, an actual true quote from the AGILE list regarding the AKC's "separate and unequal" mixed-breed agility program:

"I think what some of us are saying is that we realize this isn't perfect, but hope mixes come in anyway. You may start at the back of the bus, but with some time, you will hopefully be able to move right up front and mingle with the rest of the passengers with no barriers."

I'm sure she's already been appropriately tarred and feathered, or I'd rejoin and do it myself. What a flippin idiot. And somehow I doubt she's the only one who feels this way.

[PSmitty]

This was sent to me, an actual true quote from the AGILE list regarding the AKC's "separate and unequal" mixed-breed agility program:

"I think what some of us are saying is that we realize this isn't perfect, but hope mixes come in anyway. You may start at the back of the bus, but with some time, you will hopefully be able to move right up front and mingle with the rest of the passengers with no barriers."

OMG. Where is the head banging thingie??

Some people on another board I'm on said, "Well, at least it's a start". I don't buy that.

[SS Cressa]

I think AKC needs to take some lessons from USDAA in how to run a trial. USDAA can have 4 times the runs, 6 types of clases, no limits on entries, and they get done each day just fine

LOL THAT is why I like AKC agility!!! All the usdaa trials I have been too(3 total) start at 7:30am and gets done at 7pm or LATER(We leave at 7pm and there are still dogs running but that is just one of the issues I have with usdaa). I hate it. In AKC it can start at 7:30 am and be done around 4pm. And 4 is generally late!!!

LOL I seriously don't see why its an issue or a problem with mix breed competing. I am excited to "compete" against mix breeds even if we are in different classes.

Also I was told they ban mixs breeds from competing at conformation show because they don't want designer's breed breeders to "set up shop" there.

ETA: I wonder if they will allow purebreds to compete against mixs if they want???

I can sorta understand why they are in separate classes. If they all competed together what to stop people from breeding sports dogs for agility like they do with flyball(border- jacks/Staffordshire Bull terrier/mixes or aussie mixs). AKC is suppose to promote purebreds. (does that make sense)

[PennyT]

[quote name='JBlaylock' date='Apr 15 2009, 02:06 PM' post='295414']
"I'm just curious, are most people here pro-AKC?"

If you compete in AKC events, you are pro-AKC.

Penny