Stockdog Whistles

[Lizmo]

I'm not sure if this goes here, since it relates to stockdog training, but it isn't training. So Mods, feel free to move it.

 

I ordered my first whistles this afternoon. I didn't order a CD with the stockdog whistles on it, though. Should I?

 

Also, are all Come By, Away to Me, Here, etc, whistles the same? I mean does every handler use the same whistles? Or does each handler come up with his/her own whistles?

 

ETA: When you (general you) were starting out, how did you get your whistles?

[Chesney's Girl]

Also, are all Come By, Away to Me, Here, etc, whistles the same? I mean does every handler use the same whistles? Or does each handler come up with his/her own whistles?

 

You can come up with your own whistles for which ever command you want to put with it. Many handlers that have multiple dogs have different sets of whistles for each dog.

 

Good luck with your whistle. They can be tricky to try and get a sound out of at first.

[airbear]

ETA: When you (general you) were starting out, how did you get your whistles?

My dog came with his whistles. I kinda wish I could change his Come Bye whistle (whit whit) as it sounds like the second part of his Away to Me (wooo-wheet). Of course, I'm too scared to change his whistles, and so far it hasn't been too much of a problem. As we've worked together as a team, I've learned how to blow little half-flanks, fast flanks, lie down suggestions and LIE DOWN NOW whistles. Like most dogs, it seems, Lou prefers whistles, even at the pen or in the shedding ring.

 

I really liked the Kent Kuykendall whistles CD, because he explained how you communicate through whistles. For me, I love listening to a good handler whistling his dog around a course. You can hear encouragement, urgency, sternness ... just based on how the command is blown. Plus it sounds nicer than yelling.

[stockdogranch]

As Danielle says, each handler comes up with her/his own whistles. Often when starting out with a first dog, a student will use the whistles of his/her trainer. Often, as dogs are sold, a new owner will change a dog's whistles anyway, as for many handlers, different whistles are hard to remember. Just pick some that are easy for you to make consistently and easily.

 

I'm curious, how many of you use different whistles for different dogs? Seems like most folks I know have all their dogs on the same ones.

 

A

 

ETA: When I started out, I used the whistles that my mentor used, although I couldn't make the go-bye one well at all, so I made up my own for that side. Since then, I've been very creative

[Bo Peep]

Do you use your voice first, for example- hard to print- gooooooo bye. then. way way way? then transform to whistles? Usually, everyone uses a long stop one. But I wonder is voice commands contribute to whistles in the beginning. Consideration for thought.

[juliepoudrier]

I'm curious, how many of you use different whistles for different dogs? Seems like most folks I know have all their dogs on the same ones.

 

A

Anna,

All of my dogs but one are on the same whistles. The only reason I can think of for putting different whistle sets on different dogs is if you're planning to work the dogs as a brace. I can't imagine having the imagination to come up with five different sets of whistles for the five dogs I have right now, nor having the ability to remember each dog's whistles, especially if things start going south. Kat came with a different set of whistles and I just left them on her, mainly because I thought doing so could improve my whistling skills. Whenever I trial her I have to repeat her whistles in my head as I go to the post so I don't accidentally use the whistle set for my other dogs (and still I occasionally make a mistake).

 

Kristi,

IME, the second part of a whistle shouldn't have too great an effect on a dog as far as confusing it with the oppposite flank, as long as the first note is sufficiently different. The dog should react to the first note and the second note should just tell it to, in effect, keep going. As long as a second note doesn't sound too much like a stop, you should be okay. And if you practice, really "whit" doesn't sound like "wheet" (whit, whit is my walk up and whoo weet, AKA bob white, is my away whistle, and the dogs never mistake the second half of the right flank as a walk up).

 

As for whistles at the pen and shed, I almost always use my voice during those tasks. I am softspoken anyway, and I think using my voice at those times is more soothing to the dog (and the sheep) and just helps set up a calmer situation all around. I sometimes think that sharp whistles at the pen and shed affect sheep the same way jingling tags on a collar does--it unsettles them. So it's voice for me during those tasks....

 

Kat again is the different one as she prefers whistles over voice, though I suspect that's becuase the person who originally trained her was loud and put a lot of pressure on, so she tends to shut down for voice commands, although she's gotten better over the time I've had her, and I can use voice with her at pen and shed unless the sheep bolt, at which point I need to switch to my whistle if I want to get speed out of her.

 

Dianne,

My whistle commands don't necessarily correspond to the sound of the voice commands. I chose whistle commands I could blow and that sound sufficiently different as to not confuse the dog (they were also the whistles my trainer at the time was using). My away is "bob white." My come bye is "wee-ooo, wee-ooo," and my walk up is "whit whit" or "wheet wheet." Conceivably, a dog might confuse the first tone of my come bye with the walk up, but they never have. An interesting aside, when I got Kat, I wasn't quite clear on her whistles. When I gave her my walk up, she kept trying to flank left, which is how I figured out the first sound of her left flank (whit whoo--like a wolf whistle). So her walk up is a woot-woot. And her recall is "bob white." And her right flank sounds like a whistle version of "that'll do:" wee-oo-weet! Everyone else in my pack recalls to the whistle that is Kat's right flank.... Easy to see why folks would put their dogs on the same whistles unless planning to use them for brace work.

 

Jennifer,

I think the most important thing for anyone to do is pick sets that are easy for them to blow and that are sufficiently different as to not confuse the dog. Laura tried using my whistles with Nick and found that she just couldn't hit the higher tones the same way I did, so she adjusted the whistles to match what she could hear and blow more easily (think soprano vs. alto). My first whistle was a cheap plastic one from Border Collies in Action. The hardest thing about whistles, IMO, is finding a style that feels good in your mouth and that you can blow easily. That may take some experimenting, unfortunately. After that plastic whistle, I got a half moon made by Kevin Arnold out in Kansas, because that's what my trainer used and she had extras for sale. It's what I'm used to now, and I probably would have a tough time changing, just because of the different mouth feel and tones I would get out of other designs. Even minor things like the gap between upper and lower halves of the whistle can make a difference. My spare Arnold whistle is gapped a little bit wider than the whistle I use regularly. It does affect the tone--not to the point of messing the dogs up or anything, but if I put that other whistle in my mouth, I do have to adjust to that difference.

 

I like Kent Kuykendall's whistle tape for a beginner. Alasdair has a wonderful whistle tape too, but it's a lot more complicated (or at least it seemed so when I was just starting out).

 

And if you can learn to whistle with your fingers, you will have the widest range of "voice" and tonality available to you. I love to hear a good finger whistler out on the trial field--you really can hear all the nuances that just aren't as possible with a "mechanical" whistle.

 

J.

[stockdogranch]

^^ What she said as far as whistle tones not resembling verbals, and the first tone of the whistle being the most important, etc!

 

Julie: I have everyone on the same down, recall, and walk up whistles, but have everyone on different flanks. I do often work dogs as a brace, when working larger groups of fresh cattle, and when doing setout. But then there's Riddle, who makes it clear that she has learned the flank whistles of every dog that has come through here since she first started (showoff!). If I don't make it clear to her that she's to do nothing, or to do something different, she'll respond to their whistles, too .

 

I've had this hypothesis, and have pondered the possibilities of trying to prove or disprove it for some years, that once a dog knows its whistles, it seems to respond more quickly to those than verbals. I also am convinced that I think "faster" in whistle than in verbals. Or is it just that I use them more, and so am more comfortable with whistles? I'm taking a dog to Red Bluff this year for the sale, and I'm told they really don't like to have the handler use too many whistles, as they then think the dog is "a trial dog" (said negatively), rather than a ranch dog. So now I'm having to yell all over the field to get this dog ready, and I'm HATING it! I surely can't get the nuance that I can with a whistle,

 

A

[Tea]

I use my voice especially when working close. Then my whistles are set different. One dogs away is another's come bye.

 

The third dog will be different from either of these.

 

I introduce whistles early, I use my voice then the whistle. I always try to have a sense of humour and realize it takes time.

 

I try to make sure I can do my whistles easily and that they carry a long ways.

 

Out and abroad in the field I actually don't use many whistles as I can't see the dogs. The most I use it for is stop.

 

I couldn't use my fingers to whistle and that made me mad because all my brothers can!

 

I use the little plastic kind, don't freeze your lips off.

[bcnewe2]

I like the idea of having different flank whistles for different dogs but keeping the rest the same.

 

I haven't put Dew on whistles yet, but she knows my whistles and cries when I'm out whistling cause she thinks she's missing something.

 

Mick was my frist dog on whistles, I would like to change my whistles a bit for Dew but don't know if my brain can handle it. I think I'll go with the different flank whistles cause that will give me time to think about them while she's learning the others.

 

I used some of my mentors whistles for Mick but for different things, not cause I wanted to be different but cause I didn't remember what hers were for, just the sounds. Mick always jummps up when he hears her whistle cause he thinks it's me.

 

I have a feeling that Mick knows and responds quicker to his whistles becasue he likes them better. I don't scream with a whistle in my mouth!

 

I really liked Kent K's whistle CD. I was/am way to green to use them like he does but understanding what he was saying helped allot.

 

fingers compared to a whistle....I'd love to learn how to use my fingers but don't think I could get over the part about where have my fingers have been before I put them in my mouth. I shiver when I think about them! Using the whistle doesn't bother me untill I start picking yuckies out of it. Then I throw it in the dishwasher.

 

The best advise I was given when I started whistling was to use high to low and low to high on flanks to make sure they don't sound confusing. Meaning make sure they sound very different.

 

I also remember one time when I had just started whistling, I was taking a lesson and the guy asked "what does that whistle mean?" I said that's my "there" whistle. He said, "blow your stop whistle". It sounded the same. He laughed and commented "no wonder your dog doesn't down very well, If I can't tell the differenct how do you expect the dog to tell?" Since then my down whistle sounds like just that and nothing else! Mick thanked the man as we walked away!

Now a question...

I was with my mentor over the weekend, she was blowing a whistle and I couldn't figure out what she was telling the dog. I asked and she said that is her "everything is right" whistle. How many of you guys have one of those? She's a great whistler. It always sounds like she's having a very intense conservation with her dogs when she's whistling. I'm not that good but I do confuse my flanks less when whistling.

 

Kristen

[NancyO]

Jennifer,

 

as a person who had been extremely whistle challanged, read as not being able to make any sound for well over a month, and also being one step above tone deaf, learning whistles had been a real pain for me.

 

Mistakes I initially made were

 

1. not learning the whistles well enough before I tried to teach them to the dog, which just confused the dog more.

 

2. Not knowing enough at the beginning about all the nuances I would need for each whistle, to be able to make a good judgement on which whistles I would use for each command

 

3. Changing my whistles too many times due 1 and 2 above.

 

That being said I have learned to whistle and my dogs have learned to take thier whistles.

 

I do have my first dog Ben on a different come-bye whistle than all my other dogs, due to # 2 above. As Julie does, I have to think in my head before I run this dog and all my other dogs, to make sure I remember thier come-bye whistle. Interesting enough, if I blow the wrong come-bye whistle for a dog, they always take it as an away whistle, even tho it doesn't sound anything like thier away whistle!

 

Kent's CD is very good and understandable, even for a beginner. Alasdair's, tho very informative, had way too much information given, for me as a novice handler, and probably me as an Open handler.

 

Nancy O

[sjones]

When my first border collie Annie and I moved up to pro-novice all my friends said I had to start getting whistles on her. The advice they gave me was to pick ones that were easy to remember. Learning to get consistant sounds out of the whistle took a little practice, but once they became consistant I came up with what I thought were easy flank whistles to remember. It wasn't until I was attending one of Patricks clinics that he said, do you realize both flank whistles start on the same tone? I felt really dumb not having realized that, and terrible that poor Annie had to put up with my mistakes. My down and walk up whistle were just fine(thankfully). Now a few years later, I think I have whistles that work and Floss and Wisp seem to be ok with them.

I did try Kents whistle CD, but it didn't help; maybe I'm just tone deaf. What did help was finding more experienced handlers and getting their advice on picking whistles. I have all my dogs on the same whistles, since remembering more than one set would confuse the heck out of me. I've always been envious of people who can remember multiple sets of whistles.

I prefer to use my voice at the pen and the shedding ring, I guess I don't see the need to whistle when my dog is so close.

Samantha

[Lizmo]

Thanks for the replies!

 

I ordered a plastic whistle from Border Collies in Action. It'll be interesting trying to learn it since everyone seems to says it's a challenge.

 

Again thanks for the advice!

[stockdogranch]

It IS a challenge, unless you happen to be 3 years old--kids (and people who used to play wind instruments) just seem to be able to make noise out of them immediately. The rest of us...well...

 

A

[Lizmo]

Haha and there is no way I will ever be able to whistle using my fingers. I can barely whistle now with these braces.

[somewhereinusa]

It is VERY important that you get the same every time, all of my dogs always had whistles that were basically two notes , but when things were really going well on the trial field I would shorten to one short note of different pitch and the precision would seem to step up a notch. In my particular case,when working more than one dog at a time, I just said the name of the dog the next whistle was for, not very efficient but it worked for me.

Since I prefer whistling, I usually started teaching whistles the same time I started teaching words. I think the responses are better, more suttelties can be put into a whistle. As the distance gets farther and you have to raise your voice, I don't care how careful you are you are still yelling at your dog.

 

Just a side note on pitch, I used to regularly work with someone who's whistles to me sounded exactly like mine, but our dogs never took the wrong command.

I did have a catbird around for a while that would imitate me and the dogs would sometimes take those commands.

[NRhodes]

Tony McCallum says he uses the same whistles on all his dogs, he just changes the tones for each dog. I watched a video of him working three dogs and while I could hardly tell the difference between the whistles (but hey I'm pretty tone deaf) the dogs sure could! It was really neat watching each dog take a command and the other two dogs are doing something different. I think he just whistles with his mouth.