Exercise Induced Collapse

[Northof49]

They have now identified the gene for Exercise Induced Collapse in Labrardors. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/...80921162044.htm

 

I was talking with Sue Taylor from the West College of Vet Medicine here in Canada this weekend about it. She was the one that researched this disease and tracked it. She said they are now trying to identify the gene in Border Collies. She is the one coordinating things in Canada to get blood samples from Border Collies, so if anyone on this list has a Border Collie suffering from EIC or knows of any, please get hold of her.

[Journey]

Great news! Thanks for passing it along.

[2 Devils]

Hmmm... I am not sure Tempe qualifies as EIC but she does suffer from Heat Intolerance and unfortunately has collapsed a couple times. How do you contact Sue Taylor?

[Mark Billadeau]

More info on the test here: Canine Neuromuscular Testing

 

We've started a discussion in the H&G Committee to see if we can coordinate with UMN on this. If you want to submit a sample for testing now send an email to the contact listed at the bottom of the link.

 

Mark

[Northof49]

Hmmm... I am not sure Tempe qualifies as EIC but she does suffer from Heat Intolerance and unfortunately has collapsed a couple times. How do you contact Sue Taylor?

 

Your signature block indicates you are in the States, so you would not be contacting Sue Taylor - you could contact the people doing the testing.

[Lenajo]

Reading through the article it would appear that EIC in Labs is a simple recessive, so can be bred out similar to CEA is. Is that correct?

[2 Devils]

I think I will contact them. Tempe does get wobbly in the back end and will collapse if you don't see the signs quick enough. It can happen on a cool day too and does not take long. And it can happen 5 minutes after stopping...

[Northof49]

Reading through the article it would appear that EIC in Labs is a simple recessive, so can be bred out similar to CEA is. Is that correct?

 

Yes, but it comes down to do you not breed carriers at all, or just carriers to clear, like CEA.

 

In the Labs it was traced back to one popular sire that was used extensively. In talking to Sue Taylor, they weren't planning on doing the same research as they did with the Labs. Part of the resesarch was to identify the symptoms of this disease, as Labs have a type of seizuring that looks very similar to EIC, but is different. Since Border Collies exhibit the same symptoms , they are just going with locating the gene in the Border Collie. I don't know if any other group is researching pedigrees of affected Border Collies.

[Mark Billadeau]

Since Border Collies exhibit the same symptoms.....

I guess this would be a matter of opinion; I would think the symptoms are similar. However, Dr. Ned Patterson does not.

 

To date, in very limited testing, we have not yet found the one specific mutant allele in either normal Borders Collies (ie no carriers to date) or in a very small number of Border Collies with unexplained recurrent collapse. In the very limited number of Border Collies with unexplained recurrent collapse that we have looked into so far, the collapse descriptions and a few videos look different that what we see in Labrador, Chesapeake Bay , and Curly-Coated retrievers.

 

Edward (Ned) Patterson DVM, PhD, DACVIM (SAIM)

Assistant Professor of Medicine and Genetics

Department of Veterinary Clinical Sciences,

University of Minnesota College of Veterinary Medicine

[2 Devils]

I would love to see video of it in labs so I could compare to Tempe.

 

This is part of the email I sent off to the contact in the link... I tried to explain it so they could tell me if they wanted a sample.

 

I first noticed an issue about 18 months ago. It was a cooler than normal day here in VA and low humidity. The only change from normal fetching activity was a new Frisbee that she went crazy for. I only threw the Frisbee about 10 times and then took her inside. Within minutes her back end was going out and she could not stand without falling. I thought she was overheated so I soaked a towel and carried her upstairs to a fan – I rubbed the towel on her belly while the fan blew on her. It only took a few minutes for her to recover.

 

I called our dog walker and gave them warning to be careful going forward. Well about a month later I got a phone call and the dog walker felt they over did it but collapsing did not happen this time. They said Tempe basically was zoning out (only way to explain it). She could not follow commands and did not go racing to her crate for her treat. The dog walker hung out for about 20 minutes and proceeded to follow cooling down exercises. About 4 months ago another dog walker (same company) was warned about the problem and I had left notes on what to do if it happened. Tempe was wobbly in the backend so they carried her up the stairs and proceeded to cool her down. Again there was not a lot of exercise.

 

The dog walkers are no longer allowed to play much with Tempe even in cooler weather. I have given them very explicit instructions on signs to look for in the eyes, mouth and just her in general.

[Mark Billadeau]

I would love to see video of it in labs so I could compare to Tempe.

The link I provided has links to more info: EIC Information. Under Description of Collapse there is a link to a video.

 

In addition to being wobbly we have seen jaw muscles lock closed to where the tongue is sticking out through a mostly closed mouth and walking with stiff back legs. We also find recovery to be complete within 5-10 min and the episode can start following the cessation of work/play. Loss of mental focus (zoning) is another symptom we have seen.

 

Mark

[2 Devils]

Tempe does not have that much time between wobbly backend to not being able to stand. She gets wobbly in the backend and then she falls down and if she stands she continues falling over...

 

Any way you look at it - it all sucks.

[appyridr]

I contacted Susan Taylor just a few days ago after I heard about the DNA test for Labs. She can be reached at: smt640@mail.usask.ca

However she will refer you to Katie Minor: minork@umn.edu

Katie is the one who would like DNA blood samples of Border Collies that seem affected by something similiar to the EIC found in Labs. And samples from non-affected relatives. Katie is at the Univ. of Minnisota which does the Lab tests, but she is the one who is going to do the research on Border Collies.

My Blair used to have a type of EIC. It happened only during training not in trials betwen the age of 3 and 4. It happened after we had a more mentally demanding session where I had given him fast rapid fire commands..."flank, stop, flank, walk-up, stop, liedown, flank" etc. After I stopped working him and we were walking off the field, he would drag his back legs & toes. He would be unsteady and weave or wobble a bit as we made our way to my truck where he would immediately flop down on his side. He would recover with 5-10 mins. It had no relation to heat as it happened in winter(cool wet British Columbia) as often as in summer. It did not happen during the 103f degree Lacamas Trial where he was so hot I had to send him to water between shed and pen. It has happened rarely in the last 3 years as he has matured and relaxed into the work. I think it affects young very keen fast but biddable dogs with less experienced handlers. It is a result of stress and pressure while they are excited. Two of his littermates with similiar temperments and training have had similiar symptoms while at least two other littermates have not. One is handled by a VERY skilled and experienced handler so while she might be 'affected', she has been trained up in a manner that would keep her calm and settled perhaps thus never exhibiting EIC signs. Just a theory on my part.... :-)

regards Lani

[afrancis]

Tempe does not have that much time between wobbly backend to not being able to stand. She gets wobbly in the backend and then she falls down and if she stands she continues falling over...

 

Any way you look at it - it all sucks.

 

Kim,

Have you brought Tempe in for blood work? I only ask because that happened to my first dog Riley and it was a result of a very low red blood cell count. The other symptom was white gums rather than the normal pink.

Just a thought because it is alarming

Ailsa

[2 Devils]

Yep - had bloodwork done including a full thyroid panel that was sent to Michigan or whatever place you want it sent within the last few months. It is all normal. I usually have a full bloodwork panel run every 2-3 years just in case... I always want a somewhat up to date comparison blood panel.

[afrancis]

Yep - had bloodwork done including a full thyroid panel that was sent to Michigan or whatever place you want it sent within the last few months. It is all normal. I usually have a full bloodwork panel run every 2-3 years just in case... I always want a somewhat up to date comparison blood panel.

 

That's good news. Good luck ... hope you find what's causing it and a quick resolution.

Ailsa

[Liz P]

I have heard countless people discussing this in the past week. The word is spreading fast. Most of them, however, sound like they just have dogs that are either not heat tolerant or not properly conditioned. I have found that any one of the following can cause a dog to quickly overheat and get "weak in the hind end."

 

* Poor diet (too high in carbs, not enough fat and protein) or not eating (ex: skipping meals like some picky dogs tend to do).

* Out of shape, especially in the spring or coming back from an injury (ex: weekend warriors, people pushing their dogs too hard too fast).

* Dehydrated.

* Not acclimated (ex: lives in AC, never outside in the heat of the day, never worked when it's hot then asked to do that).

* Put under too much pressure (ex: classic fried brains), especially younger dogs.

* Being sick (this includes being hypothyroid, Addison's disease, GI upset, UTI, etc).

 

I would try to rule those out before assuming EIC.

[Rave]

I have 2 BCs who overheat very easily, and exhibit the nuero signs of overheating, but I don't think it's EIC. I would think BCs are prone to overheating, as many tend to overdo things and not stop when they get hot. And once a dog has overheated once, they're more susceptible to overheat in the future. I've heard so many BC owners lately claiming EIC and I think it's actually just overheating and the subsequent susceptibility to it. Just my opinions of course, I'm obviously not a vet or expert on EIC.

[Jedismom]

Jedi has been exhibiting these symptoms in the last couple of weeks only. Shaky in the rear, wobbling, collapsing. Also zoning out a little, but not clamping his mouth shut. He's over it in a couple of minutes. Today was the 3rd time it's happened. He only collapsed the first time, the other times he acted like he was drunk. Never heard of EIC until I read this thread. I've been confused about why it's happening, because it's not that hot out right now and it never happened in July or Aug., which are the hottest months. I'm not exercising him any longer than I normally do. In fact, I've cut down his play since the first time it happened, on the possibility that it is heat related. It's never happened on walks or sheep herding. Just during his ball retrieval play.

 

Does anyone know if there is a treatment for this?

 

Georgia

[Guest SweetJordan]

I have heard countless people discussing this in the past week. The word is spreading fast. Most of them, however, sound like they just have dogs that are either not heat tolerant or not properly conditioned. I have found that any one of the following can cause a dog to quickly overheat and get "weak in the hind end."

 

* Out of shape, especially in the spring or coming back from an injury (ex: weekend warriors, people pushing their dogs too hard too fast).

*I would try to rule those out before assuming EIC.

Good points. When I first adopted Riley I thought she might have EIC. I even asked about it here. But what didn't immediately occur to me was the fact that she was given no activity whatsoever in her former home. I just needed to take things slower w/ her even though she had all this excess pent up energy. Now she has no problems. And even though she's still a skinny little thing she does have well muscled hind legs which she once lacked.

[LowGo]

""""We've started a discussion in the H&G Committee to see if we can coordinate with UMN on this. ""

 

I usually just lurk around here, every so often. I am so happy to see that EIC is finally being looked at! I had contacted ABCA 3 years ago after my BC was diagnosed with what they then termed "exercise induced hyperthermia". University of Missouri-Columbia used him as a case study and racked up $8000 in tests (which they waived the fee on, thank goodness, in the name of research). They have EVERYTHING and their neuro consulted with Dr. Shelton at UC-Davis who was also researching BC's. Dr. Shelton reviewed all of the muscle biopsies.

 

I would love to share all of our records with the researchers. Do you happen to know a contact number, so I can call and get the records released to them?

 

Also, if anyone is interested, I will be happy to share my dog's pedigree here.

 

Jessica Parris &

"LowGo" JLP Lopin Low CD CDX AKC and ABCA registered

[Mark Billadeau]

My initial contact was through the email address listed on the linked websites: vdl@umn.edu.

 

Mark

[2 Devils]

This is the email that I received responses back from - eicinfo@umn.edu - Edward (Ned) Patterson DVM, PhD, DACVIM (SAIM)

 

Tempe's bloodwork should arrive today for this study.

[lisad]

Hi Georgia,

We have a new BC puppy, and have had a similar experience. I posted the details on the BC Boards in "Health and Genetics", post is titled "EIC or overheating in puppy"

 

We haven't had a BC before, so this is a bit new for us. Since Kip (9 weeks) has been outside instead of in, he's been much better. (See details on that post.)

 

We're not excercising him too much, and letting him sleep alot (instead of the kids waking him up to play) Now that he's outside, he doesn't seem to be overheating.

 

This is our theory...... We think it's an acclimatising/too much excercise/ tiredness problem.

 

1/ He came from a dairy farm in South Australia, where it's been winter. Being a working dairy, the farmer keeps his dogs, including Kip's mum and her litter out in the shed. He's a farmer with working dogs, not a breeder.

 

2/ We're on 25 acres and when we brought the new puppy home, we kept him inside for a few days, as he was very little and our dog yard wasn't puppy proof. Being inside, he had interrupted sleep, and our house was warm, particularly at nights, when he was awake and playing.

 

3/When he had his worst "episode", exactly as you have described it, it was after a day playing inside with the kids. I could feel the heat coing from his pads and his body, while his back end was wobbly. In the middle of the wobbly leg thing, my husband took him outside, where it had been raining and was quite windy and cool. He walked on the paving bricks which were cold and was back to normal in about 2 minutes. With no side effects or tiredness.

 

4/ So now he's outside in the dog yard with our JRT. We play and train, to keep him interested, but not overly "crazily" active. And we're keeping him cool. This seems to have "fixed" the problem. We're continuing to keep a close eye on him. As well as a second vet opinion.

 

Early days yet, we'll let you know. Please post if you have any more ideas.

Cheers, Lisa

[appyridr]

This is the email that I received responses back from - eicinfo@umn.edu - Edward (Ned) Patterson DVM, PhD, DACVIM (SAIM)

 

Katie Minor is the contact at UMN who is doing the research with Border Collies;

minork@umn.edu

612-624-5322

 

I have attached the form to be used to submit a blood sample(I hope). I hope it is accessible, if not, email me privately and I can send it to you. There is no charge by UMN, you simply have to pay to have the blood collected and shipped.

regards Lani

 

 

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