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Male dog's - a few questions i have


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#1 Samantha J

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 04:08 PM

Well as you know i am thinking about getting another BC. I have only had female dog's and never wanted a male.

My reason for not wanting a male are i am afraid to do with their bits and pieces!!

Now i don't care if you want to laugh at me, i laugh at me sometimes too :rolleyes: but i have a few questions please to those that have males and those who have had both.

First off when i got Holly she was very easy to toilet train, a couple of weeks if that and she knew she couldn't go in the house. Are males generally the same or do they take longer to train as they like to cock their leg up everything?

Second question, i can trust Holly if she goes into a shop or someone's home (even if they own dog's,)not to wee. Are male's as good or do they have to scent mark everywhere?

Thirdly - When you train a male do they need to wee up something or can you train them to go in open spaces?

Yes you can laugh at me again, they seem dumb questions i know but i don't know the answers so i really want to ask.

Another thing that has put me off males is - do they mount everything, i don't want to be specific i am sure you can all guess my reservations with that one?


The reason i want to know these is i am actually considering a male, i know personally of people with two female BC's that get on great and i remember a thread on here when i asked about it. Some put that females are ok but i mainly took from the advice that male and female may be a better choice. I have been thinking about this for ages and really it is only the above things putting me off a male. I have met some fabulous male dog's so they are just as lovable i know that.



Please help me,

Thanks :D

 
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#2 Guest_TheRuffMuttGang_*

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 04:28 PM

I had to get a good laugh out of your post, sorry!!!! :rolleyes: :D

My reason for not wanting a male are i am afraid to do with their bits and pieces!!


I was the same way before I got my first male dog. Trust me though, you'll get over it when it's your own dog.

Are males generally the same or do they take longer to train as they like to cock their leg up everything?


This all depends on how old the dog is and what its background is. Marking behavior can be difficult to kick for some dogs but it usually does not take very long. If you are thinking of an adult rescue dog, then he ought to be neutered before adoption and that alone cuts back A LOT on marking behaviors. If you are talking about a puppy, you ought not have any issues if you just potty train him from the time you get him. With a puppy it's no different at all than having a female.

Second question, i can trust Holly if she goes into a shop or someone's home (even if they own dog's,)not to wee. Are male's as good or do they have to scent mark everywhere?


Intact males can sometimes have the desire to mark but this is mainly an issue of training. Train properly and you shouldn't have an issue even with an intact male. A neutered male doesn't have near the desire to mark as an intact one. Again, if you are training a puppy, this is all very easy.

When you train a male do they need to wee up something or can you train them to go in open spaces?


I have four boys and of the four only one insists on lifting his leg almost everytime. And even he can lift his leg in an open space if he smells something he needs to pee on. So the shorts answer to your question is you can train them to go anywhere. Mojo will lift his leg sometimes but usually squats. He is a 3.5yr old neutered male. Tank and Vero are both intact, and 8 and 9 mos old respectively (both will be nipped, of course). Neither has made a single attempt to lift their leg on anything yet. SoBe is my 6 yr old neutered male and he is the one that prefers to lift his leg. That being said, he's never done it on an inappropriate object.

do they mount everything


Short answer? No. This all goes back to training and whether or not your dog is neutered. Neutering male dogs can really curb a lot of unwanted behavioral issues if they are allowed to surface. The good thing about starting with a male puppy is that you can many times prevent marking and humping by letting them know those behaviors are not allowed. I only have one humper and he humps for dominance. He is my alpha male and he has to let every new dog know that he is the boss when they come in. He's never humped a human body part. None of my other 3 males have humped anything, ever.

#3 Ruger's Dad

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 04:31 PM

Male dogs are not like raising boys. BCs are cleaner, more obedient and smarter.

I will take a male any day over a female dog. Ruger has never had a single UTI. He does not leak and have to be on permanent medication for incontenance. Our female Springer has had both of these disorders.

Ruger probably took about a week or so to potty train. He does not run around the yard or neighborhood marking. My wife wanted me to find a female Border Collie and I almost fell for her reasoning. She said male dogs were goofier than females. Ruger has all the traits I ever wanted in a dog and the next Border Collie will be a male as well.

#4 juliepoudrier

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 04:31 PM

Samantha,
I have been raising my first male (from puppyhood--I have two others as well), who is now 14 months old. I have a couple of other males, but got both of those as adults. The first one had never been in a house and he lifted his leg twice. I didn't catch him the first time, but I did the second time, and verbal correction was enough to stop him from ever attempting that in the house again. He was 5 when I got him and has been with me for 7.5 years. He's never tried to hump anything either, though he'd been used as a stud at least once. The second adult was a 18-month-old neutered male. He never lifted a leg in the house either, but he does occasionally sort of hump (he stands behind without touching the other dog) one of my other dogs. Just her (the alpha female actually) and I just tell him to stop and he does.

I dislike males for the reasons you mentioned, although I have not had any of those actual issues. The youngster rarely lifts his leg, but I'm sure that will come eventually. FWIW, they do not need a vertical object to pee against--they will hike that leg over grass as well as against something like a tree.

I kept a bitch and a male out of Twist's litter. I felt that it was easier house training the female because she was more obvious when she needed to go pee. And if I didn't catch her beforehand, she'd make a puddle. The male had a habit of peeing as he walked, so he'd leave trails. But overall he wasn't hard to housetrain--the accidents when they occurred were just a bit messier.

Males can be trained like females to not mark in any indoor location, and they can be taught not to hump things. I think I would be more watchful of a male in a new location (a store he's never been in, for example), since he might be inclined to mark, especially if another dog has marked before him, but if you're paying attention you should be able to nip any such ideas in the bud.

And very dominant females can mark just as easily as any male, so don't be fooled into thinking a female won't mark. My alpha female has *very good* aim!

Anyway, I wouldn't dismiss a male if you're mainly just worried about toilet issues. All that can be trained. I hope that helps some!

J.

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#5 Guest_TheRuffMuttGang_*

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 04:34 PM

I will take a male any day over a female dog. Ruger has never had a single UTI. He does not leak and have to be on permanent medication for incontenance. Our female Springer has had both of these disorders.


Not to burst your bubble, but while male dogs are less likely to suffer incontinence than females, it is not impossible. I have one male with urinary incontinence that has to take PPA twice daily. Big whoop. It's not that hard to remember to toss a pill in his bowl each meal and if any of my females ever have the same issuee (because they are all spayed) then I'll toss a pill in their bowls, too. I also have another male dog that is prone UTIs and gets about one per year. So I don't really find these two arguments to be very valid when trying to find supporting reasons to get a male dog.

#6 Ruger's Dad

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 04:35 PM

Listen to Debbie of the Ruff Mutt gang. I have seen her videos and I am absolutely impressed with the level of training and knowledge that she has of her dogs.

But then Ruger is so stinking smart he makes me look good as a trainer. :rolleyes:

#7 Sue R

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 04:36 PM

Samantha - Those are some good questions to consider before deciding whether or not to get a male dog.

I really can't answer about the potty training. What I have experienced is that my dogs train more quickly and easily if I make the effort to do my part. When I get lazy, it doesn't go well. I have to do my part consistently for some time before a dog is really considered housebroken.

As for males lifting a leg in the house, if it's a youngster, he probably won't even begin lifting until six months or older, but will rather squat (not like a female but stretched out). The leg-lifting to mark tends to come along a bit later, as he matures a little.

Marking, I think, can partly be a matter of temperment. My little female, spayed at five months of age or less, is my chief marker. Next is my younger male, who is getting neutered at 18 months (next week - don't tell him). My male that was neutered at six months, is really not a marker at all but will occasionally leave his calling card. But they don't mark inside - this is all outside. The only time I've had them go inside is when I didn't make sure they had relieved themselves before entering the dog shop (where lots of spots on the carpet are enticing) and they really had to go anyway and the temptation (and signs) were too much to resist.

Young males will squat anywhere but, as they age and develop a bit, they will tend to go on upright things - trees, tires, long grass, etc. I don't think training them to go on any particular thing is needed. They will figure it out.

As for mounting, some dogs are rather "studly" and will be interested in anything from stuffed animals to bitches (in or out of season - if they are out of season, they will let him know his advances are not welcome) to neutered males (my Celt seems to attract the males that are most studly and he's not that kind of dog) to people. BUT, a dog can learn and understand what is and isn't appropriate by proper and timely discipline. A dog that tries someone's leg and is encouraged to do it "for laughs" (as was posted on these boards once), will continue to do it if he is so inclined. Training is key here. Let him know it's not appropriate and, with a little training and discipline, it should not be an issue.

I think a major key to avoiding undesireable "male" behaviors is early neutering. When neutered about six months of age or so, a dog will not have developed many of those behaviors and it will never be an issue. All these comments are, of course, "in general" because some dogs mature at a younger age than others.

Since Border Collies tend to mature a little more slowly than some breeds, you have some flexibility in neutering age. If you begin to see behaviors just starting that you want to avoid, that's the time to get the deed done. In UK and Europe, I don't believe neutering/spaying is as promoted as over here in the US. However, it has many benefits and relatively few drawbacks, and I'm all for it for dogs/bitches that won't/shouldn't be bred. You avoid certain issues and potential health problems, and don't have to worry about unplanned pregnancy.

I have two males and one female, and no real issues at all. We've had intact, mature males in the past, in the house, and no problems that a timely correction didn't solve.

Egads! I took so long writing this, along with doing something else, that everybody beat me to it with better advice! Best wishes!
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#8 Samantha J

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 04:40 PM

Thanks Debbie :D


I definately would neuter anyway, as i want to let my dog off leash like Holly and if anything did happen i don't want him making puppies with another dog. So that is a certainty for me.

Glad it made you laugh, i really want to know but i gathered as i was typing it someone is going to laugh at me. :rolleyes:

I want to be open to both male and female, i just have never owned a male and so don't know these things. I want it to be more about the temperament of the dog, like which one is going to suit Holly more rather than my preference of a female. If a female looks to suit her more i will go with that but i need to sort my reasons for prior to now dismissing males totally. The reasons that you have answered for me are the only issues with males i have.

 
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#9 Ruger's Dad

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 04:43 PM

My daughter-in-law has a female chiquaqua. She would hump this doll of hers. Very disgusting. Daisy is not neutered either.

#10 Samantha J

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 04:44 PM

oohhhh thanks all, i was to slow typing to see anyone else had answered, i haven't looked yet but thought i would just add thanks so you didn't think i was being rude. :rolleyes:

 
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#11 Samantha J

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 05:04 PM

Now i have read them all, Thank you Ruger's Dad, Sue and Julie.

Very good advice, i didn't know that they didn't cock there leg up from an early age. So in theory if i try and teach the *do wee wee's* command like Holly it shouldn't be much different teaching to go on grass with a lead on like i did with Holly.

I intend most definately to neuter, Holly is spayed already, no breeding plan's here ever. I didn't know how early you could do that, with Holly i waited until she had had one season. It would be nice to be able to neuter at 6months if it doesn't harm the growing bit. Also that humping bit whilst not neutered makes me think eeeewww!!


Egads! I took so long writing this, along with doing something else, that everybody beat me to it with better advice! Best wishes!



No not at all, it was all good advice, yours too, i wanted different opinions as all dog's are different. Everyone's experiences are different. It is all nice for me to read and digest. I was too slow answering Debbie, i was worried it looked like i ignored everyone else.

Thanks again :rolleyes: I am so glad i asked and i am a member here, i am going to hopefully have two dog's, for me that's another first so i may be asking a bit more advice soon.

 
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#12 Tassie

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 05:49 PM

Hi Samantha - coming in late (darn being on the other side of the world!) just to say that you had some really good questions - much better to find out before than later.

Just a couple of things to add. I have neutered the boys I've owned after they've started lifting their leg - I find that handy since I compete with my dogs - very easy to get them to empty out before a competition, though as has been pointed out, they will lift their leg on grass, preferably taller grass :D , and they will squat wee if they really need to go.

Oh, and I don't know if it's just my goofy boy or not, but at over 5, he still hasn't learnt to miss his front paws when he wees :rolleyes:

And yes, my female covers other dogs' wees, takes part in peeing competitions, and lifts her leg as high as she can when she's marking - funny to see. Oh, and she humps occasionally.

Of course it's a wild generalisation, but my experience has been that my boys have been a bit more open - what you see is what you get - my girls have been a bit more devious - but that's only from a small sample.

I think your conclusion is the right one - get the right dog, temperament wise, and the gender really won't matter.
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#13 SoloRiver

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 05:59 PM

When I started out I wanted the same 30 lb, rough coat, black and white female under one year old that everyone looking for a rescue Border Collie wants. I didn't want a male at all.

Then I ended up with Solo, who was not even remotely close to what I was looking for and none of it mattered. Granted, the time between "hmmm, maybe a Border Collie" and "holy crap, where did this dog come from?" was maybe two days for me, so your mileage may vary.

He was intact when I got him at 16 months of age and I did not neuter him for about two months after that because he was just too emotionally damaged to begin with, and I didn't want to put him through the experience until he was feeling a bit more himself. He wasn't housebroken when I got him and lifted his leg in the apartment (just behind the front door) exactly once, right when I got him home. I told him "no" -- just "no," I didn't yell it or anything -- and he never did it again. I also took him a number of places while he was still intact, including to friend's houses and he never peed in any of those places either. So obviously they can be trained not to mark indoors.

He DID mark a lot outdoors while he was still intact, but I didn't stop him from doing it because I don't care if he pees on trees and fire hydrants. The marking stopped almost cold turkey once he was neutered. It takes less than 72 hours for the majority of the testosterone drop to be completed and the change was quite dramatic. His personality stayed the same, he just stopped peeing on everything outside. It was quite remarkable.

He will still cover other dogs' marks given the chance and always has to initial Fly's puddles, because she's his bitch.

I know intact male Border Collies who lift on everything, and others who wouldn't think of it. It seems to be related mostly to whether or not the dogs are house dogs, or how much the owners care if the dog runs around marking outdoors.

Solo doesn't mount other dogs with the exception of Fly, but he doesn't really like other dogs much so it's hard to say if he'd mount more dogs given the opportunity. He has never mounted a human and would not dream of attempting to hump me. He has a number of studly behaviors and may have been used before I got him as his original owner bought him with the intention of offering him at stud. The studly behaviors he does have (strutting, covering other dogs' marks, kicking a lot after he pees) don't bother me.

Solo is my favorite and I think the quality of our relationship is informed in part by the fact that he is male and has a masculine outlook on life. That may sound silly, or disturbing, but that's the way it is. I will always have at least one male dog and I hope that he is always the strong, serious type that Solo is. Bitches can be just as strong and serious, but they're different somehow. I think having one dog and one bitch is just about perfect. In my household, the normal Border Collie personalities are reversed -- Fly is a total goofball, and Solo is very businesslike.

By the way, Fly lifts her leg and marks outdoors too.
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#14 Guest_TheRuffMuttGang_*

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 06:17 PM

I think having one dog and one bitch is just about perfect.


Crazy woman! I think this should read something like FIVE bitches and FIVE dogs is just about perfect. :rolleyes: :D

#15 WyoBC

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 06:19 PM

When I was looking for a dog I figured I would get a male. So it would be easier for our female to get along with him. I have never regreted getting a male. As far as I'm concerned he's the best dog I have had.

He doesn't pee on everything, actually he's petty choosy on what he will pee on :rolleyes:

No, not really. If there's nothing to pee on he'll either just go, or he'll lift his leg anyway.

He has never mounted anything. I also thought about this when I looked at a male. But after taling to some people I found at that with the right training most dogs don't.

I hope this helps. I understand what your saying. It's good that your thinking about it before you just jump into it. Let us know if you get him :D

#16 ShoresDog

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 06:20 PM

The studly behaviors he does have (strutting, covering other dogs' marks, kicking a lot after he pees) don't bother me.

Ha! Those behaviors don't bother me either, when my spayed female Daisy does them!

I suspect there's more of a dog-to-dog difference based on personality than on gender.

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#17 Samantha J

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 06:21 PM

Barb and Melanie, i thank you both too. :rolleyes:


Holly has never lifted her leg to wee, well not yet. I think that would be a strange thing to see. I never knew they did that. I thought males always cocked the leg and females squat. If i see her do it (especially when i get another dog) i won't find it so strange now. :D

This weeing inside is looking positive then for a male, we visit family a lot and Holly always comes so i want to take both dogs. My family all accept if i come, my dog comes so it looks more positive this male weeing inside thing. I just need to be extra careful i watch them for a while until i trust them which i did with Holly anyway in someone elses home.

I don't mind having a dog that does his wee up things in my garden i just would prefer to be like it is with Holly whilst out. If we are walking down the street and she needs to go she sort of pulls to grass, if this is public grass i let her and tell her to go wee. If it is someones property i say no wait and lead her to where she can go. This works so i wanted the same sort of training if possible for a boy. I wouldn't want my dog weeing up someones car or the plants in their front garden so that is why i was hoping i could train to go on grass with nothing to cock the leg up too. If possible to do what Holly does, i don't know if it would work but i would try.

Anyway i am getting converted to males!!! I never thought i would ever say that.

Best temperement for Holly is what i need and who will fit in with her life, no good having a really highly energetic female i can't cope with and turning down a more medium energy level BC (like Holly) male that would suit her more.

 
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#18 Samantha J

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 06:29 PM

Ha! Those behaviors don't bother me either, when my spayed female Daisy does them!

I suspect there's more of a dog-to-dog difference based on personality than on gender.



My little Tammy did that, like she was wiping her feet. I always did wonder why she did that. We did use to joke and catch her just as she was doing it and say *wipe your feet*, bless her she used to do a little woof at the same time. :D


Thanks Aj, i am really glad nobody has come up with mounting humans, i have seen the little terrior types on tv do it to peoples legs. So i presumed that the bigger dogs do it too and you have to train them not too. If i go for a male he might not do it at all then. Another positive for me that one!! :rolleyes:

 
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#19 Anda

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 06:41 PM

Get a boy! Boys rule! Less cranky, less bitchy! Plus, did you notice how most of the people here who have multiple dog households (3+4++ etc) have mostly males? :D

Mine never attempted to hump any other dog, just toys when he was young and hotel bed covers during our summer vacation :D Yuck: those are the first things that I throw off bed anyway, Ouzo was just trying to prove I was right to do so :D He did have a few attempts to dominate me about a year ago :D , but those were instantly nipped in the butt and he wouldn't even dream of daring to do that again! :rolleyes: And it wasn't the crazy poodle leg-humping thing, he was looking straight in my eyes and trying to put his front paw over my shoulder, to pull me close to him. Kindda freaked me out, I called him a pervert and I swear I could hear him try to whisper in a low voice "Com'on baby..." in my ears. Beah, beah, beah!

I do have a sprinkler dog, it's true, but never inside, the only time I have issues with him is at the pet store or at the vet, where he wants to mark on top of other doggy pee. We're activly working on that - short leash, eyes like the hawk on the culprit and strong "NO MARKING!" make him think twice before lifting his leg. I honestly don't care about what he marks outside.

Speaking on stuff to pee on, few months ago we stopped at a restaurant and I let him out right next to the car. There weren't any trees or bushes. But Ouzo still found a tiny little cut-out tree stump, about 2 inches off the ground, and he proudly lifted his leg as high as he could, and peed on the "tree". The look on his face was priceless!

#20 Samantha J

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Posted 30 September 2007 - 06:50 PM

You know Anda Ouzo is one of the one's i see on the photo's on here that started me off thinking awww some boys are so cute, yes i mean cute!!! Some of his face expressions are just that - in a handsome rugged way of course. lol

Thank you :rolleyes:

 
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