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Rough collie vs. rough-coat BC


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#1 silhouettestable

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 12:42 AM

How many people have both rough collies and rough-coat BC's and which one do you find harder to groom? How similar are their coat types? The more smoother coated dogs I get the more I'm enjoying not having as much grooming to do. I just spent hours grooming out the loose undercoat on my collie Noah. He didn't seem to shed properly last year and even though I brushed him the undercoat never really got cleaned right out. It's falling out easily now though and I think I just thinned out 2 years worth of undercoat :rolleyes: Now he only looks about half as wide as he did before.

With my 2 new BC puppies Rain and Storm, judging by their puppy fur I thought I was going to have one smooth coat and one either medium or long. Storm was really fluffy but now that fluff is thinning out and he seems to be getting in a very fine silky hair but still fluffy around the ears. Their mom had a medium coat, and I was told their dad did too, so I'm hoping that Storm won't end up too hairy. I like the look of the longer coat, it's just more work.
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#2 WyoBC

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 12:49 AM

Myslef I love the rough coated BC's. My Black Jack is a rough coated BC and I do spend more time brushing him and getting out matts out before they get to bad but I wouldn't traid him for a smooth coated BC anyday. But that's just what I prefer.

#3 OurBoys

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 01:00 AM

Both our boys are rough coats but JJ seems to have an undercoat and Jake's is the silky type. JJ does take longer to groom. His breeches are so thick and long, they stick straight out all the time. We find it best to keep them trimmed in the summertime.
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#4 Beth G

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 06:41 AM

Me, myself, I just prefer the look of the rough coat much more, regardless of the work involved in it's upkeep.
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#5 BC-Liz

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 09:25 AM

I've got 2 roughs (one medium, one I thought was longer but has shed most of it off) and one smooth (but not the shortest smooth you can find). I like the look of both rough and smooth for different reasons. My rough coats are definitely smoother and nicer to pet. However my smooth dries faster, is easier to wash, doesn't get as hot, etc., etc. I can't say I'd chose one above the other right now. I do like Rheas fluffy butt and Masi's gorgeous tail but it's really neat to see Gunnars muscles.

So yeah, roughs are harder to groom but they have their advantages and usually unless you have VERY long hair they're not that bad. Rhea is a medium coat and she almost never gets snarls so bad that I can't get them out.

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#6 Becki's Boys

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 09:34 AM

Lance my Rough Collie was very difficult to keep mats out of. Jack has a medium fine coat. So I'm really not sure, but I know Lance was tough.
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#7 silhouettestable

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 11:02 AM

I absolutely love the look of the rough coats as well. I'm just finding it to be a nice change having some shorter-coated dogs that don't require the same amount of grooming. I can take my smoother dogs all over to the river for a swim and afterwards they just shake and dry off all nice and clean, they almost never require bathing with shampoo (unless they find something stinky to roll in). I have some tendon damage in my wrist now and too much grooming tends to make it sore. I couldn't possibly have 6 dogs that were all like Noah unless I was wealthy enough to pay someone else to groom them for me.

Here's another spin on the original question. How long and thick does a typical rough-coat BC coat actually get (again, as compared with a rough collie)? My computer's so slow (I'm only on dial-up, not high speed), so it's hard for me to look through tons of photos, but from what I've seen in your signature photos, your rough coats don't look nearly as long/thick as my collie, though JJ definitely has the very full tail and leg feathers. It seems that a somewhat smoother, silkier coat is common in the longer haired BC's, with full tails and various amounts of feathering on the legs. Noah doesn't have super long hair for a collie, but he is so insanely thick! Until his undercoat is really completely shed out I usually can't even find his skin if I part the hair and it makes the longer hair stick out so that he looks really fat. When you stand behind him looking down at him he doesn't even look like he's got a neck, he's got this massively thick lion-like ruff that extends from his head down over his shoulders, but again without the length to weight it down so it sticks out and makes him extra wide. When I bought him a dogsled harness I ordered one in the 75-90 pound size, but it was way too small and I had to exchange it. I emailed pics for them to see how it fit and they recommended that I jump up 2 sizes to the 105-115 pound size, just to allow room for his coat. Luckily, despite how thick he is he's not really incredibly difficult to groom, it just takes time. His longer hairs are very nice, the brush passes through them easily. I just occasionally check for mats behind his ears and the inner thighs, other than that I wait until the undercoat is starting to shed to do any real amount of grooming. I've had a collie before that had a longer and really thick coat and I had another that didn't get much undercoat but the outer hairs were very tangly and messy looking, even with lots of grooming. This is Noah:

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#8 SoloRiver

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 11:20 AM

I can't speak for Barbie Collies, not having had my hands on one, but rough-coated Border Collies are not nearly as heavily coated as Noah. Solo has a considerable coat for a Border Collie, particularly around his breeches, but I would say he has less than one-third to one-half as much coat as the average Lassie Collie does.

Rough Border Collie coats also tend to have that Teflon, wash-and-wear effect that you mention with your smooth coats. Once Solo is dry, dirt and mud just shake off of him. That said, it takes Solo a LOT longer to dry than it takes Fly, who is medium-coated (almost smooth, but her coat is kind of plush and not slick). I could probably get away with not brushing Solo and he probably wouldn't mat, as his coat isn't quite silky enough for that, but he'd look pretty unkempt. Fly looks the same whether I groom her or not.

If I had to choose, I prefer a rough coat for purely tactile reasons, but luckily I don't have to choose.
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#9 OurBoys

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 11:37 AM

"When you stand behind him looking down at him he doesn't even look like he's got a neck, he's got this massively thick lion-like ruff that extends from his head down over his shoulders, but again without the length to weight it down so it sticks out and makes him extra wide."

That's JJ as well. We went to a sheep herding event one time and we bought a collar from a vendor. He looked at JJ and said he would take a large. As soon as he tried putting it on JJ, he immediately realized a large was too big. He couldn't believe all the hair around JJ's neck! :rolleyes:

Jake's silky fur dries 3 times faster than JJ's. JJ's undercoat just seems to trap the water and he can't take the heat as long as Jake either.

Awhile back on another thread, someone mentioned a product called Show Sheen. The next time I drive by a tack shop, I'm going to stop in and see if they have some and try it on JJ.
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#10 silhouettestable

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 12:00 PM

Rough Border Collie coats also tend to have that Teflon, wash-and-wear effect that you mention with your smooth coats. Once Solo is dry, dirt and mud just shake off of him.


Nice to know that about the rough BC's (in case Storm does develop a longer coat). That's what I'm enjoying about the shorter haired dogs.

When we got Lightning (BCxlab), there were some smoother and some fluffier pups in the litter. I had it in my mind that I wanted to get a longer haired female pup, but my daughter picked him, a very smooth male. He's become such a great dog, it just goes to show how you sometimes have to alter that image you've got in your head of what you think you want. Same thing when we got our BC puppies Rain and Storm. Now that I'm liking the shorter hair, I wanted another smoother coated male. Since I wanted a new pup to add to our sledding team, logistically it made sense to get a male pup who would probably have the potential to grow up to a larger size, more in line with the size of my mixbreed dogs that I sled with. After meeting the pups, we picked Storm and he was a very fluffy pup, but I was so drawn to Rain that we got her as well. So I got my male pup, and a smooth coat, just not all on the same dog. :rolleyes:

Awhile back on another thread, someone mentioned a product called Show Sheen. The next time I drive by a tack shop, I'm going to stop in and see if they have some and try it on JJ.


Ah yes, Show Sheen made by Absorbine. I use it on my horses after bathing them for shows, and it's commonly used on show dogs as well I think (at least a groomer I knew who entered grooming competitions used it). Before I lived here at my house I used to stay at my parents cottage. Back then I had my two old collies and when we'd go walking in the forest they'd sometimes end up with burrs or pieces of raspberry bushes stuck to them. Show sheen really makes the coat slick and can help make combing that stuff out a lot easier. I used to use it then on my dogs but I don't bother now. Noah takes a tour up through our forest every day on the paths the horses have made, but he we don't seem to have any burrs for him to get into (touch wood, fingers crossed as I say that - don't want to jinx our good luck and find him full of them all of a sudden).
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#11 TaliC2007

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 12:48 PM

Me, myself, I just prefer the look of the rough coat much more, regardless of the work involved in it's upkeep.



Are popcorn and pepper medium rough coated? Also, are they brother and sister? I just looked at their pictures on dogster. Awww, I love the one of them laying together and one has his/her arm over the other. So sweet.

#12 TaliC2007

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 12:50 PM

Both our boys are rough coats but JJ seems to have an undercoat and Jake's is the silky type. JJ does take longer to groom. His breeches are so thick and long, they stick straight out all the time. We find it best to keep them trimmed in the summertime.


Question about Jake's coat. What did it look like when he was a puppy? My puppy's coat is a rough coat, but fairly short. He has feathers behind the ears and his tail, but the rest of him it is only about two inches long. He also has no undercoat (YAY!! ) I gave him a bath as soon as I got him and I couldn't believe how fast he dried. My Aussie's take half a day to dry out and since they are in the pool several times a day, they pretty much just stay wet!

I am hoping his coat will be about the same as Jake's, not too long and not too short. Is there anyway to tell? I am not sure if the dogs that have a heavy rough coat have it from puppyhood, or if it fills in as they get older.

thanks
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#13 OurBoys

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 12:55 PM

Question about Jake's coat. What did it look like when he was a puppy? My puppy's coat is a rough coat, but fairly short. He has feathers behind the ears and his tail, but the rest of him it is only about two inches long. He also has no undercoat (YAY!! ) I gave him a bath as soon as I got him and I couldn't believe how fast he dried. My Aussie's take half a day to dry out and since they are in the pool several times a day, they pretty much just stay wet!

I am hoping his coat will be about the same as Jake's, not too long and not too short. Is there anyway to tell? I am not sure if the dogs that have a heavy rough coat have it from puppyhood, or if it fills in as they get older.

thanks
Tammy

Sorry, Tammy. I can't answer your question. JJ and Jake both were adopted from rescue services. JJ was about 2 yrs old and Jake was around a year old-maybe a little younger. Both had already lost their puppy fur.
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#14 setsail

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 01:53 PM

Well, I guess I have the best of both worlds with my border collie/ rough collie mix :rolleyes:

Jackson does mat up a lot and snag twigs/burrs/leaves. He gets most in his tail, but he can't really hold his tail up and it drags the ground more than most dogs. His coat has more "fringe" than most of the border collies I've met and seen on here. He has a thicker undercoat and requires a lot of brushing. But he is nowhere near as thick as a rough collie. He got collie bones and a border collie coat.

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So he has a long top coat and a really thick under coat around the hind legs and tail.

#15 TaliC2007

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 02:03 PM

Sorry, Tammy. I can't answer your question. JJ and Jake both were adopted from rescue services. JJ was about 2 yrs old and Jake was around a year old-maybe a little younger. Both had already lost their puppy fur.


I guess it will just be a surprise then. Thanks anyways and that is awesome that you adopted both of them. They really are beautiful boys.

#16 OurBoys

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 02:19 PM

I guess it will just be a surprise then. Thanks anyways and that is awesome that you adopted both of them. They really are beautiful boys.

Thank you, Tammy.

I love our boys very much and have never regretted adopting them but with all the puppy pictures I see on this site I know I've missed out on a lot. Sometimes I think about getting a puppy and then remember the housebreaking, crate training, s/n expense, puppy shot expense, etc. But then again there's the puppy breathe, the playfulness, the silly antics, etc........ :rolleyes:
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#17 silhouettestable

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 03:23 PM

My puppy's coat is a rough coat, but fairly short. He has feathers behind the ears and his tail, but the rest of him it is only about two inches long.


How old is your puppy? My pup Storm is now about 4 1/2 months old and he's starting to slick up. He was really fluffy at first but the silkier hair is coming in and the baby fluff is just...disappearing? I don't notice him shedding it out, but all of a sudden he's becoming much smoother. Here's how much he's changing:

Storm, 6 weeks
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Storm, 10 1/2 weeks
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Storm, 3 months
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Storm, 4 months
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Thunder, a mix-breed puppy I adopted last year really changed too. He was a bit of a fluffy puppy but then one day I gave him a bath and it all came out. When he got out of the tub he was a smooth puppy ! He now has what I'd call a medium coat with some undercoat, but short hair on his legs. He looks like he could have some german shepherd in him, mixed with something that's got merle colouring. People have guessed he might have ACD, Australian Shepherd or Catahoula Leopard Dog in him. That's him in one of the pictures with Storm, and this is him as a puppy:
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#18 TaliC2007

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 04:07 PM

How old is your puppy? My pup Storm is now about 4 1/2 months old and he's starting to slick up. He was really fluffy at first but the silkier hair is coming in and the baby fluff is just...disappearing? I don't notice him shedding it out, but all of a sudden he's becoming much smoother. Here's how much he's changing:

Storm, 6 weeks
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Storm, 10 1/2 weeks
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Storm, 3 months
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Storm, 4 months
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Thunder, a mix-breed puppy I adopted last year really changed too. He was a bit of a fluffy puppy but then one day I gave him a bath and it all came out. When he got out of the tub he was a smooth puppy ! He now has what I'd call a medium coat with some undercoat, but short hair on his legs. He looks like he could have some german shepherd in him, mixed with something that's got merle colouring. People have guessed he might have ACD, Australian Shepherd or Catahoula Leopard Dog in him. That's him in one of the pictures with Storm, and this is him as a puppy:
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My puppy is 6 months old and his hair is just like Storms, who is a doll btw. So is Thunder. I love puppies. Hammie, my puppy, was all fluffy and fuzzy too until he was about 4 months old. Do you think Storms hair will stay like it is or get longer as he gets older? I am hoping Hammie's doesn't get too long. I actually love it just like it is. Very shiny and silky, and hardly sheds.

He was a bit of a fluffy puppy but then one day I gave him a bath and it all came out. When he got out of the tub he was a smooth puppy !


LOL, that's what my BF says happened to his hair!

#19 silhouettestable

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Posted 24 July 2007 - 11:18 PM

Do you think Storms hair will stay like it is or get longer as he gets older?


Not really sure, but I think he'll probably get a bit more at least. Right now he's getting the shiny, silky hair coming in down the middle of his back, but his sides and belly are still fuzzy, just much less so than before. I'm guessing that the fuzzy puppy fur is probably an indication that he's going to grow some undercoat, but I think his top coat will be silky. Since both of his parents had medium coats, I doubt that he'll get really long hair, but I guess time will tell.
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#20 rosefarm

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Posted 25 July 2007 - 04:16 AM

She looks like a rough coat to me. I adopted Lily at 4 months, she had a short fuzz, with fluffy ears. Her fur really came in right before winter.

Here's a pic from last september, its from my son's collection of butt shots but it shows the lack of fluff.

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Here's a pic from December, a few months later. Suddenly she's nothing but hair with 6 inch+ butt fuzz.

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Her summer coat is shiny and quite light, photo's don't really capture it.
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If smooth coated bc's are like my beagles, honestly I prefer the rough coat, it's kinda magical wash and wear. My beagles go for a swim and they will still be wet 5 hours later, their coats are so thick, and they shedding never ends with any kind of brushing. Lily shakes off and is dry within 30 minutes, its amazing to me.

Lily just loses her underfuzz, which frankly is somewhat amusing to rake out, because there is an actual end to the process.


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