Neobliviscaris06 Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Hello , I am totally new to this forum but have been lurking and reading everything I can voraciously for weeks now. I have loved the pics and have actually got very involved in the continuing stories of all you Border Collie owners. My question to you now is this this weekend after or before going to the Celtic Festival in Irvine California ( which has Sheep trails) . I am going to see a breeder in Temecula , Ca. I want to purchase a dog. She has a runt that she wants to get into a home asap . It has panda eyes. All my dogs in the past have been the runts or the unwanted. So being the softy I can feel myself leaning towards the runt....I want to help it and give it a nice home. We are a home of six , 4 teens . The house is rarley empty and we live rigth next to the national Forest. A Border Collie will ove it here. Has anyone ever adopted a runt? I am sure that there will be some more than usual vet bills but I don't mind and have the means? Thank you for your answers in advance . Again it has been really informative reading you guys' posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kat's Dogs Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 What do you consider a "runt"? Sometimes, the smallest pup in the litter is the "runt". Other times, it is the unusuallly small pup, that has/had a hard time clinging to life. If it is just the smallest pup - then there is nothing wrong with the puppy (under that definition, my Dazzle is a runt). So she is just small, nothing else is different between her and her littermates. But if the pup is unhealthy, then that is different. So....what is a runt in this situation? That is the first question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neobliviscaris06 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 She has described the pup as a runt with no mention to health. here is a quote from her "I have a runt that needs a home asap. She will need vet care maybe because she is a runt. I place a small dog, the runt, as they say, asap , usually for free because they are petite and may need vet care. If the dog is free the vet care is just the 'cost of the dog' in the even it is needed. There was only one in this litter. He/she is a tiny tiny panda faced pup. one white eye. one black eye." from my experience the little one of the litter is just as fine as her litter mates too. Just wasn't sure of this breed. All my other runts have been mutts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Devils Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 I have a runt of the litter and other than some allergy issues he is very healthy. Before getting the runt I would ask if there are known health issues. I would be concerned that she wants to place the dog ASAP because of possibly health problems. If she suspects possible health problems then she should have a vet check out the dog before placing the dog. It is not fair to the owner to be for them to fall in love with a puppy that ends up quite sick. Being a runt does not meam health issues though. I would suggest being careful and make sure you are comfortable with the breeder. If you have any concerns walk away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neobliviscaris06 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Hi 2 devils . I am in the automotive business so I know some of the code words for this industry and I got the feeling of wanting to get rid of it asap as meaning just that...unhealthy but if it is healthy then as you guys say it coudl trun out to be an awesome dog regardless. I told the wife just that if we feel uncomfortable ( my red flags go off) then we do just that walk away even if it pulls at our hearts...She has been a local breeder for 15 years. I could find no negative things about her anywhere. Thanks guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neobliviscaris06 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 It is only 3 weeks old so I wouldn't be picking it up right away. I wouldn't think. Maybe she just wants it out of the way of the other bigger pups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neobliviscaris06 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Are your pics of your " runt" on here 2 devils ? I see the little one next to your name but it is just that little Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoloRiver Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 She doesn't even know what sex it is. I am also worried that she wants to place it "ASAP" because it is important that it stays with its mother and litter for reasons of socialization. I don't have the best impression of this breeder. What is she breeding for? Are her dogs working dogs or is she just producing puppies? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLLt3cK Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 This sounds similar to a breeder I spoke with out of Temecula when I was looking for my new BC. To my knowledge this breeder you are speaking with is a conformation breeder and is selling her "non-runt" pups for $1,200 each. Beware! I'm not against buying from a breeder but you may want to contact the SoCal Border Collie Rescue as they have a good amount of BC's available right now. I searched for a solid year for a breeder that I liked in the SoCal area and I just couldn't find one. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcnewe2 Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 I own a runt and he's an awesome dog, at 3yrs old you can't tell he was ever a runt. I would be getting red flags with the ASAP thing. Why would it cost her more if it is a healthy runt? Are you willing to take on vet bills if it's not but more importantly can you or your family handle the heart break of a seriously ill pup or one that dies from genetic defects? Her post kinda makes me think there might be problems with this pup I did not pay any less for my runt. He was my choice. but he didn't need any extra vet care and had nothing wrong with him other than being on the small side when he was born. I to am drawn to runts too but I'm not foolish, if they are sick then I know it's not going to be my dog. What is ASAP in the breeders mind? 7-8 weeks is proper, same time the others would be ready to go. I know it is hard to wait for the right pup but please try to look at the whole picture....won't be easy with that lil' runt staring you in the face. Good luck Kristen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLLt3cK Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 This is probably who you are speaking with: http://www.bairdcreekbordercollies.com/puppies.html Personally I chose not to associate with this person after interfacing with her about her dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neobliviscaris06 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 I agree with you SoloRiver. We haven't been to her place yet. I have her website here it is please check it out and if you don't mind give your candid opinion. I would appreciate that too. I'm not new to dogs but new to the breed as far as getting ready to own one. I have been a fan of them for years but wanted to wait till my other dogs passed before getting this type of dog. She is the closets breeder and I couldn't find anything inthe rescue of Socal. I prefer the rescue . Here is her site...http://www.bairdbordercollies.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLLt3cK Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 You mentioned that you preferred rescue- Here is a list of the males available at the SoCal Border Collie Rescue: http://www.bcrescue.net/available_males.htm Females: http://www.bcrescue.net/available_females.htm In my personal opinion I would not purchase a puppy from this breeder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neobliviscaris06 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Really illt3ck ? Could you explain why? That is the person. Do you know of anyone else down here in Socal that would have a dog. I am going to ask at the Sheep dog trails but I know that these shepards are going to be hardcore. Where I am looking for more of a companion for hiking ,running and of course the frisbee sports Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neobliviscaris06 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 I have applied to the Rescue and haven't had much luck as far as them contacting me back . I am familiar with these choices having looked at these dogs online too. I am taking your recomendation seriously illt3ck. Just you having personal experience with this person and not liking it is enough for me . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLLt3cK Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Originally posted by Neobliviscaris06:Really illt3ck ? Could you explain why? That is the person. Do you know of anyone else down here in Socal that would have a dog. I am going to ask at the Sheep dog trails but I know that these shepards are going to be hardcore. Where I am looking for more of a companion for hiking ,running and of course the frisbee sports The first red flag that came up when I spoke with her was money. Before we talked about any of the dogs and what kind of fit they would be for me she immediately mentioned money. In my first correspondence with her I mentioned that I liked to visit the beach almost daily and planned on participating in agility & flyball with my future dog. Her response was "Well if you want to take a showdog to the beach then that's up to you - I have two females available for $1,200" She also tried to get me to adopt her "runt" of the current litter I was considering. This was after I mentioned that I wasn't prepared to pay $1,200 so she offered me the "runt male" at $750. There were too many things wrong with what she was saying in my opinion so I ended up rescuing my BC from a family looking to re-home their Border Collie. Is there something specific you are looking for in your next dog? I just went through the whole process alongside the support of this messageboard and would be happy to help you out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLLt3cK Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Originally posted by Neobliviscaris06:I have applied to the Rescue and haven't had much luck as far as them contacting me back . I am familiar with these choices having looked at these dogs online too. I am taking your recomendation seriously illt3ck. Just you having personal experience with this person and not liking it is enough for me . I too shared that same frustration with regard to getting contacted by two separate rescues - how long ago did you e-mail them? I happen to have all of the contact information for the people I eventually spoke to and I can ask them to contact you directly if you would like. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neobliviscaris06 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 illt3ck. I would greatly appreciate any help you could give us. Funny I have felt the same way about this person. She gave me the same line on the phone and was all about money. Major red flags. That is why I came here. I knew this would be the place to go for answers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLLt3cK Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Originally posted by Neobliviscaris06:illt3ck. I would greatly appreciate any help you could give us. Funny I have felt the same way about this person. She gave me the same line on the phone and was all about money. Major red flags. That is why I came here. I knew this would be the place to go for answers. Please e-mail me and I will see what I can do. marktsmith@gmail.com Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neobliviscaris06 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 "Don't come early for the runt though because she can't leave her mom yet. Justin said it looks like she is healthy but just small. She won't need to be adoped until we are sure there could be a problem, you can never ever tell with the smallest of the litter. Sometimes they are fine ( I have 2) they just are small. (lol) Time will tell but I am a breeder and my gut feeling says that in about 2 weeks if there is a problem it will 'show' itself somehow. Right now she is just so small and shy it is something for me to worry about. I worry about the puppies all the time. Thanks for coming over Saturday. I really appreciate it. If you want to 'wait' for the little girl then you can see her when you come on Saturday. Let me know. Thanks. " This is her latest response to my questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 None of my business, but I'd run (not walk) away from that breeder! Good luck with the rescues. Remember they are all volunteers with jobs, families, lives and dogs of their own. Be persistent, and you could end up with a great rescue dog. Good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neobliviscaris06 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Thank you PSmitty. I got that feeling from her too. I will go home tonight show the wife and kids the things you guys said and await word from the rescues. I am patient for this dog. I plan on getting two dogs the other will be a mutt rescue from the pound. I will concentrate on finding that one while I wait for my BC to come along into my life. I know he is out there somewhere waiting for us . T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Betsy Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Since she is a Conformation breeder, you should be aware of this site's stance on such. Try reading this thread... http://www.bordercollie.org/cgi-bin/ultima...ic;f=1;t=008029 Take special note of the 2nd, 4th & 5th bullet points. Conformation breeders most definitely register with the AKC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neobliviscaris06 Posted November 16, 2006 Author Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 Thank you Betsy. I totally respect this stance. My family will not be buying form them instead I will turn towards the rescues. I am looking forward for Sat and the Highland Games to see the real deal in action . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Watch Debatable Posted November 16, 2006 Report Share Posted November 16, 2006 LOTS OF PUPPIES FOR CHRISTMAS!Ye gods. Run screaming from this person. Seriously, her web site is fairly horrifying. The dogs are conformation-bred and AKC-registered, and she's charging a bundle for them --- yet none appear to have conformation titles, obedience titles, "herding" titles or anything else that marks a "good" breeder of AKC Barbie collies. Please feel free to contact my parents, Gxxxxx and Hxxxx Dxxxxxx at anytime for lineage or better yet the AKC American Kennel Club. I have all phone numbers if needed. AKC will send your papers, when I can?t say, contact AKC.And yet in her "Know the Breed" section she reprints a terrific USBCC article that strongly discourages registering Border Collies with the AKC. Unreal. This place could honestly be the BYB poster kennel. The poor dogs don't even look fit. I'd be surprised if she could provide evidence of hip and eye checks. The site should be saved, just to show prospective puppy-buyers what to avoid. I feel terribly sorry for the runt --- looking at the website, I'm thinking the poor tyke must be in a pretty bad way. ETA: Paula and Betsy beat me to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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