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I have friends who need their dogs on planes. I had friends who cheated.


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#21 GentleLake

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Posted 05 May 2018 - 11:24 AM

Looks like change is coming. The question is, will these new laws actually have any teeth (pun intended) if there aren't some standardized certification and IDs for legit service dogs. And penalties more substantial than $100 or even $250 fines, which for some people wouldn't be that much of a deterrent. 

 

https://www.nbcnews....ce-dogs-n871541

 

https://www.webmd.co...support-or-sham


"People in your life always come and go all the time; the dogs are always there for me. Always." ~Samantha Valle


#22 D'Elle

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Posted 09 May 2018 - 09:54 AM

Thanks for posting that info, Gentle Lake. Of course, as you pointed out, the new wording doesn't really change anything. 

 

It is already in the law that if a dog comes into a business and misbehaves, even if it is a true service dog, the business owner or manager has the right to make dog and handler leave.

 

That being the case, why would any business owner, after evicting the unruly dog, then follow the person, attempt to obtain his or her name and information (which the person would not be under legal obligation to provide), and further attempt to go after the person with the new law, take it to court, and get the person fined? 

Not going to happen.  And if the dog is well behaved, why would any business owner confront the team at all?

 

As you also said, since there is no incontrovertible proof in existence, no license with hologram or other such thing to prove that a dog is a service dog, there's no way for anyone to know if the dog, well behaved or not, is a service dog or not.

 

The other thing that seriously annoys me is that an exception is made for emotional support dogs who assist people with PTSD only if they are veterans.

PTSD  is caused by many different kinds of trauma, not only warfare, and PTSD caused by a different kind of true trauma is just as debilitating as  that caused by warfare. This means that those people suffering genuine PTSD from kidnapping or hostage situations, rape, serious abuse by spouse or parents and so on are excluded.

 

Also excluded are those who suffer from serious anxiety and/or depression, whose lives are thereby severely curtailed, and who find that they can manage to go out of their homes and into public places if their well behaved and trained dog is with them. 

 

So much more needs to be done in this area to make the use of service and support dogs fair and equitable for those who need them, while protecting other people and dogs from badly behaved dogs who have not been given appropriate training and whose company is not genuinely needed by their owners.


D'Elle

and family.

Left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that?" --Jester:  2001 - June 24 2016. Remembered with much love.
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

And not pictured, Benjamin the cat, who thinks he is a small border collie with superpowers.

 

 

 


#23 GentleLake

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Posted 15 May 2018 - 12:02 PM

American Airlines has instituted new policy guidelines for service and ESA animals. https://www.aa.com/i...ice-animals.jsp


"People in your life always come and go all the time; the dogs are always there for me. Always." ~Samantha Valle


#24 D'Elle

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 05:08 PM

At least one part of these new rules will be challenged.  

 

The size restriction would eliminate  guide dogs for the blind, who are never little dogs that would fit under the seat or in the lap.

 

"At your feet" would depend on how big the dog is and even more on how big the person is. A golden retriever, for instance, is the dog most commonly used as a guide for the blind. I doubt that I could sit one at my feet on an airplane, and I only weigh 107 pounds.

 

It would eliminate service dogs who are there as physical support animals for people with mobility issues (again, never small dogs)

It would eliminate service dogs trained to pull a wheelchair, who have to be mid-to-large in order to perform that task..

Etc. That's most of the service dogs out there.

 

I suspect they will have to lift the size restriction or lose business and good will. I don't understand why they did not think of these things.


D'Elle

and family.

Left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that?" --Jester:  2001 - June 24 2016. Remembered with much love.
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

And not pictured, Benjamin the cat, who thinks he is a small border collie with superpowers.

 

 

 


#25 Maralynn

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Posted 17 May 2018 - 09:51 PM

My friends with SAR dogs fly with Labs, Goldens, GSD and the like. These dogs all curl up at the feet fine.

ETA - there are a few places on the plane that can accommodate large dogs easier. If you cut out the fake service dogs it will be easier for the airlines to accommodate the actual ones

Mara
Kenzi & Kolt

Kipp, my little dude 2004-2014
Missy, my good girl 1999-2011
 

K9 Knitter blog


#26 D'Elle

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 11:20 AM

 I am glad to know this, Maralyn.

I guess, having never tried it, I thought that space was smaller than it is.  :-)


D'Elle

and family.

Left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that?" --Jester:  2001 - June 24 2016. Remembered with much love.
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

And not pictured, Benjamin the cat, who thinks he is a small border collie with superpowers.

 

 

 


#27 Maralynn

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Posted 18 May 2018 - 01:31 PM

 I am glad to know this, Maralyn.
I guess, having never tried it, I thought that space was smaller than it is.  :-)


I think part of it is FAA flight regulations, too. You never could obstruct aisles in an aircraft during flight. Now theyre just reiterating and and saying that they have the right to enforce a pet fee/revert to pet regulations if the dog does not behave according to protocol.

I know the the bulkhead area offers just a bit more legroom space and those are the places my friends request if they have an option.

Mara
Kenzi & Kolt

Kipp, my little dude 2004-2014
Missy, my good girl 1999-2011
 

K9 Knitter blog


#28 GentleLake

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 11:29 AM

This situation -- a man accused of punching deaf pregnant woman and her service dog on an airplane -- should prove interesting. I hope it's followed up.

 

http://www.14news.co...man-service-dog

 

http://www.orlandose...0518-story.html

 

One thing that immediately catches my attention is that the dog is still a puppy. Even therapy dogs have to be at least a year old before being certified, so I suspect there could be questions about this service dog's legitimacy. Doesn't excuse the man's behavior though.


"People in your life always come and go all the time; the dogs are always there for me. Always." ~Samantha Valle


#29 Hooper2

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 02:49 PM

  • ...so I suspect there could be questions about this service dog's legitimacy. Doesn't excuse the man's behavior though.

 

Yeah, absolutely no excuse for punching anyone.  But, besides the fact that the dog is only 8 months old, it's a great Dane.   I get that for certain types of service, dogs need to be a minimum size.   But an alert dog for a hearing-iimpaired person can be pretty small.  While I would hate to try to figure out size restrictions for service animals, a great Dane is TOTALLY impractical as a service animal that is going to accompany his person in all sorts of public places. Besides the fact that they just don't fit in a lot of public spaces, their life expectancy is short, and they aren't particularly tolerant of either heat or cold.   This sure looks to me like the couple decided they wanted a great Dane as a companion animal, and then decided that they could take their companion animal wherever they want if they train it (or claim  to have trained it) to perform a service for them. It is really murky trying to clearly define what a "legitimate" service animal is, and I sure don't want to say what breeds or mixes can or can't be service dogs.  But it seems to me that one criterion for selecting a dog as a service animal that will have unrestricted public access is whether that dog is physically suited to go everywhere in public.



#30 D'Elle

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 08:56 AM

It is just not possible that an 8 month old puppy could be a genuine service dog.  That person was not telling the truth.

The amount of training alone takes longer than that dog has been alive, and it also requires a level of calm and focus away from distractions that no 8 month old puppy is going to have. The youngest service dog I have known was 2 years old. Her training started at 6 months and at 2 she could go places with her person, but was still classified as "in training".


D'Elle

and family.

Left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that?" --Jester:  2001 - June 24 2016. Remembered with much love.
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

And not pictured, Benjamin the cat, who thinks he is a small border collie with superpowers.

 

 

 


#31 Riika

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 04:51 PM

Was it just not clarified that the dog was "in training" and not a "real service dog" yet? SDIT aren't wholly granted access in some/most states, but most businesses allow them anyway, at least in my experience. 

 

I also saw in the article that "Frontier say service animals are permitted on all flights, as long as they are certified and properly harnessed." When will the education spread far enough that business will stop saying "certified?" All it does is feed the online fake "certification" companies!


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#32 GentleLake

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 06:51 PM

The NBC article does specifically point out that "There is no uniform nationwide certification or registration process for legitimate service animals — which receive up to several years of specialized training — making it easy for people to scam a non-existent system," which addresses both the certification question and, obliquely, the fact that this dog is too young to be a real service dog (and also mentions the fake "certification companies in the sentence following). It's possible that service-dogs-in-training are granted the same privileges as fully fledged service dogs, though I don't know that with any certainty and it's not addressed here at all.

 

It is kind of interesting to me that this incident made the news if there's a possibility that the dog in question isn't even legit. I'm guessing that perhaps the fact that the owner could legitimately be using a service dog with out question blinded those reporting the incident to the possibility that they could still have been scamming the system. As others have pointed out, a smaller dog with a longer life span would be a more practical choice in many ways as a hearing assistance dog.

 

On so many levels it just reinforces my belief that we do need some sort of verifiable certification system enacted so that real service dogs can be IDed as such so that the fake ones can be weeded out.


"People in your life always come and go all the time; the dogs are always there for me. Always." ~Samantha Valle



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