Ball aggression in public

[puppytoes]

I adopted Orbit at 3 months from a shelter and have socialized him extensively from the get go. Initially i was concerned that he was a little too aggressive because he played so rough (even at three months with much bigger dogs). But now, i do not think that he is aggressive or dominant in general, he is simply not gentle. With training, he now calls off when playing too rough with a dog that can't take it or doesn't want to play that way. All in all, i can take him pretty much anywhere (and i live in the city so there are dogs everywhere at those few places where they are allowed) and there are no problems.

 

Except sometimes when we are playing with a ball. The scene plays out like this. I chuck the ball, Orbit runs and gets it, brings it back and lies down with the ball in between his legs. All is good and we do it again, unless another dog happens to want to check out his ball, or him or sometimes just happens to be walking/running by too closely. Orbit lunges and growls so quickly and without warning that the other dog nearly drops dead from a heart attack. It all ends in about a second, unless the other dog takes offence and then there is a snarling, growling mess. No one has ever been hurt and many people have told me that he is simply a young male dog (14 months old) flexing his muscles. I am not very keen on this behaviour but have no idea what to do.

 

Any suggestions?

[mbc1963]

Wish I had an easy answer. My dog has come a long way, but still fiercely guards anything he deems "his." (Sticks, balls, particularly delicious stinky patches of grass... you name it.)

 

I simply manage him: no toys or great treats when other dogs are around. As much progress as I've made with my dog, I don't want to put him in a situation where I make trouble.

 

Sounds like your dog is more "normal" than mine. Will be interested to hear what suggestions people give.

 

Mary

[Ms.DaisyDuke]

I don't think it's aggression, I think he's resource guarding "his" ball. I also bet he is giving the other dogs subtle signals too. Freezing in place, maybe "hovering" over the ball ever so slightly, staring at them with a "hard" eye. These can all be really hard for people to notice, but I bet there is something there. Freezing in place is one that is very, very difficult to notice, especially if the dog is laying down, but you'll notice a slight stiffening of the dog, all of their muscles sort of tense up.

 

I agree with Mary that maybe you could manage the situation. No ball playing when at a public park etc. I've seen a few scuffles break out at dog parks over toys. You could also try, if you can, with a totally neutral dog to desensitize him to other dogs around him and his ball. That one might be a little more tricky because you have to find a dog that doesn't really care about him or the ball. You could do this in the same sort of way you would desensitize a fearful/reactive dog to other dogs. Starting with the other dog further away than Orbit's threshold and slowly getting the dog closer and closer to Orbit and his ball.

[Dan28]

Gus is pretty much exactly the same way. He gets along with other dogs but refuses to share anything he deems "his" with any other dog. Any person can take stuff from him but no dogs can get too close.

 

I guess it started when he was about 3 or 4 months old.

 

Unfortunatly some dogs don't back down and neither does Gus. He is writing checks his little butt can't cash. That's why when we're at the dog park I try to keep him away from toys. Technically toys aren't allowed, but people bring them and leave them. Seems like he can always find a tennis ball there.

[RaisingRiver]

I manage my guarders. River will snap at a dog if they get too close, she does give signals even I can see but it took Aero as a puppy SEVERAL snaps before he figured out she wanted him to stay away (typical male!). Diesel will get into an all out scuffle so I NEVER let him play with other dogs around - within x # of feet. He plays at home w/ my dogs out and that's fine cuz they all know now to let him have it. But dog park dogs just aren't going to get it and so many of them are not properly trained/socialized.

 

I do go to dog parks, but I totally manage Diesel there, not letting him get too far away from so he doesn't get himself in trouble and it totally works - it helps that he isn't toy obsessed and only plays if I invite him into the game. River doesn't guard other ppl's balls though. She usually gets some poor sap to throw their own ball for her, but she always yield's that ball to the owner's dog. Apparently she can differentiate and she's the only one who plays fetch there - but again because she seeks out her own game. Our goal there is to walk the perimeter (8 acres) a few times and then go home just for a change of scenery and to sometimes practice recalls, etc w/ distractions. I live on 5 acres, so it's not like we HAVE to go there

[shanty]

I've been dealing with the same sort of behaviour at dog parks. My bc doesn't mind children or other people taking toys, and he appears to like playing with the other dogs, but once he has a ball or stick he guards it and causes problems.

 

We've taught Truman the 'leave it' command and I use it to stop him from picking up a ball or tugging on a stick with another dog. However, I'm still learning about tolerance levels and realized that too many dogs and too many balls/sticks is just too much work so I'm reducing our play time at the park and doing more one-on-one fetch at another field. It's probably more balanced anyway.

 

Today we came to the park when there was just one, very calm dog that Truman knows well. They started playing with a piece of wood and I told him to 'leave it' a few times but when the other dog walked away from it and Truman picked it up I gave him a chance to see how he'd do since the other dog is a perfect model of non-aggression and is bigger than my dog.

 

Sadly, the signs of guarding still showed (stiffening, lowering his head) so instead of taking the stick I just called Truman to me - had to be VERY excited and motivating since he wanted to guard instead. Fortunately it worked and he came over. When the other dog went for the stick I again told Truman to 'leave it', called his attention again and asked if he wanted 'a walk' whereupon we just took a short stroll.

 

For now I think this technique of 'leaving it' and distraction will keep him below threshold as the actual possession of a toy or stick clearly puts him over it. Still reading the forum for new ideas, but this was quite a breakthrough for us so hopefully it helps.

[puppytoes]

Thank you for the suggestions. I like the idea of desensitizing as opposed to avoiding the situation as i live in the middle of a large city and it is rare to go anywhere that dogs are allowed and not have other dogs there. The situation i was refering to happens mostly at the beach and it might happen once every second time we go. It is not a constant problem. I have been watching Orbit very closely and of course he does change his behaviour (he stiffens) but i still think he could be more obvious. What i have been doing is, the second a dog starts to wander over, i have him focus in me and i act animated and it seems to break him out of his trance and then he is just normal. Today, after an initial snarl, he let a french bulldog walk right around him, sniff his toy and nothing. He seemed so pleased when i told him what a good boy he was. I hope this focusing on me instead of the ball will work