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#1 coffeegirl

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 07:28 AM

Our setup was always to have Carmen's crate in the living room where it's going to live permanently. (It's in an unobtrusive spot.) It is within reach of our fold-out sofa, so I've been sleeping there this week. I've been putting her to "real bed" around 11 or 12, after a pee, then she wakes up at 3 or so, and we go out, then I put her back in the crate. Then she sleeps until 6 or 6:30, and we go out again, only this time, I don't put her back in the crate. She just curls up under the sofa bed and doesn't wander. (As long as all the lights are out. And yeah, I realize this is probably honeymoon pup behaviour.)

 

Carmen grumbles a little when she first goes in the crate (not really whining, and not barking or crying, just grumbling), but I dangle my hand through the grate, and she licks it and goes to sleep. We have been crate training in the daytime (with no crying, only treating) and she can stay in without complaint for an hour or two now. We do that once or twice a day.

 

So last night, Dad took over the night shift so I could get some connected hours. As was the case with our human babies, Dad always seems to push the envelope a little, and here's what happened. He put her to bed at 11 as usual after going out, dangled his hand and she settled as usual, only he misunderstood me (or "misunderstood" me) about the 3am part, and instead of taking her out again, he dangled his hand. So she just grumbled/mewed a little, then went right back to sleep....

 

Then slept until 6. So that means she didn't pee for seven hours. Is this going to hurt her if I try this and she does it again? She didn't cry when he did it, she just mewed a little and went right back to sleep. The crate was dry in the morning.

 

I thought their bladders weren't developed enough for this? Wouldn't she cry if it really bothered her, though? I don't know what to think. It seems a little mean to me to not take her right out, but if she's ready, maybe she's ready? Insights? Experiences? I just need to know if I should try it again. Of course if she cried or didn't settle right away, I would take her out. But I don't want to give her a bladder infection or something. Physics are physics, after all.

 

PS--Carmen is just over 9 weeks. Also, she is totally capable of crying loudly. She can make a big fuss when I have to go upstairs for something and she sees me go, and she did it when we first started using the x-pen (we pretty much solved it that day with treating/training), and when we first tried the crate when she didn't go in by herself. So she knows how to howl it up when she wants to; we just try to avoid situations where she would.



#2 GentleLake

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 10:00 AM

Puppies vary in their timelines for being able to sleep through the night. And they can easily become habituated to routines. If Carmen had really had to pee, she would either have continued to cry or she would have peed in her crate. Since she didn't do either, I don't think there's any real harm in trying it again. Be prepared for accidents at this age if you do though.

 

For me it's always been a bit like walking a tightrope with puppies. They learn so quickly that if they cry we'll take them out, and before you know it they're going to the door crying all the time, or waking up at night crying in their crates. Not giving in immediately to the very first whimper is one way to help them develop bladder control. I probably wouldn't have started pushing it quite so young, but since it worked last night I wouldn't worry about trying it again if you're reasonably sure she'll cry rather than just peeing in the crate. I really don't think she'll damage her bladder.


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#3 coffeegirl

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 11:02 AM

Puppies vary in their timelines for being able to sleep through the night. And they can easily become habituated to routines. If Carmen had really had to pee, she would either have continued to cry or she would have peed in her crate. Since she didn't do either, I don't think there's any real harm in trying it again. Be prepared for accidents at this age if you do though.

 

For me it's always been a bit like walking a tightrope with puppies. They learn so quickly that if they cry we'll take them out, and before you know it they're going to the door crying all the time, or waking up at night crying in their crates. Not giving in immediately to the very first whimper is one way to help them develop bladder control. I probably wouldn't have started pushing it quite so young, but since it worked last night I wouldn't worry about trying it again if you're reasonably sure she'll cry rather than just peeing in the crate. I really don't think she'll damage her bladder.

 

Thanks so much. This is what I needed to hear: it's fine if it doesn't work, I just didn't want to hurt her, or take advantage of her keenness to please. I can really see her wheels turning: she really does try to figure out what you want and do it. I realized yesterday that she was trying to signal she had to pee from her xpen, by whining and pawing at her water. I couldn't figure out what she wanted, then she peed, and I just thought...wow. I think this is because our ("Oh!") shock when she has an accident (we know we're not supposed to react, but we fail sometimes) she's figured out where the right place to pee is already and didn't want to do the "wrong" thing. So I don't want to push her now because she's so little and she's trying so hard. 

 

Except for giving our slippers back. We can just go screw ourselves then. She has to draw the line somewhere.



#4 aschlemm

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 05:25 PM

I've always hated getting up during the night and my puppies were 9 weeks or older when I got them.  Usually we'd have last time out around 11 pm and then be up 4:30-5 am.  I don't remember any of them having an issue.



#5 Lovannah

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Posted 15 April 2018 - 09:01 PM

My puppy is now 4 months old, but at about 10-11 weeks we tried the bell system. We attached it to the patio door. Every time we went out with him we rang the bell, encouraged him to ring also by holding a treat behind it. It took a few days, and he figured it out right away, even if we bought to a friends house or the cottage. We show him where it is and make it clear this is the door we go out to do his business.
It eliminates a lot of questioning, although he does ring sometimes now if he just wants to go outside. I just praise him, no more treats required, and go outside and cue him to do his business.
As for how long he holds it in, we got him at 9 weeks old. Within the next two weeks, he was going out one last time at 10-10:20 pm and would go until 5:45-6:00 the next morning.

#6 Sue R

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 03:53 AM

While there are always generalities that may be made, there may also be variations in individuals.

We brought Dan home at 8 weeks of age. He slept through the night from the first, from 9 pm until 5 am, and stayed dry on my work days from 7 am until 2:30 pm. When I was home and he was awake more during the day, he had to go on a "normal" frequent puppy schedule.

Your pup should let you know her needs. Count yourself fortunate!
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#7 coffeegirl

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 08:21 AM

Thanks everyone!

 

She slept from 11 until about 5:30 last night. Then 6:30.  :rolleyes:  I tried the arm dangle, but she insisted for me. Then she didn't seem like she was in a particular hurry to pee when we went out, but...meh. She eventually did. In the ice storm. (Hear the violins?)

 

It's incredible--the babies used to do the same thing. Dad would easily get away with things they wouldn't let me do. Next life, I'm coming back as the Dad.

 

Still, it could be a lot worse! I'm grateful she's doing 6 1/2 hours or whatever. However, I'm not like some of you hearty farm people (yet?). I like 8 hours, so I'm still feeling it. But now I no longer feel guilty she's not going out every 3 or 4. So thanks for that.

 

Lovannah, I had heard of the bell thing but just assumed it was too advanced for her now. I'm going to try it now, thanks! 



#8 alligande

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Posted 16 April 2018 - 01:07 PM

I got my youngster at 10 weeks, the first night he slept from 11 - 5:30, then it was 10 - 10:30 to 6 or 6:30 by the time we got home with at 13 weeks he was happy in his crate for 8 hours. There were a few days that he woke me up and really had to go but they never became a pattern. For the first 3 weeks he slept beside me and I would do the hand trick as well, once home he moved into a huge crate in the living room and he was good. We counted our selves as very lucky especially as we were traveling and staying with family and in hotels those first 3 weeks. 



#9 Alchemist

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 01:19 PM

I've acquired puppies at anywhere from 7-8 weeks. Some sleep through the night from the get-go, others don't. The most recent one that didn't sleep through the night from the get-go refused to pee from the time I picked him up from his breeder's in Idaho at 4:30 AM, wouldn't pee at the Boise airport, wouldn't pee on the pads in the "family" restroom in SLC, wouldn't pee at the airport in Baltimore... wouldn't pee until I finally got him home, easily 12 hours after I'd picked him up that morning. So he certainly *could* hold it for an inordinate amount of time. He just *preferred* not to for a few weeks. Or maybe it was that he was still on a different time zone... at any rate, he'd wake me up FAR earlier than I wanted to be up, but it only lasted for a week. Now that all the dogs are adults they know we don't like to be woken by them in the mornings. If *we* get up in the night to pee, that isn't an invitation for them to party. That only happens once *we* stir in the mornings. (Which often happens far earlier than would be my preference!)

 

 I think this is because our ("Oh!") shock when she has an accident (we know we're not supposed to react, but we fail sometimes) 

 

Whyever would you not react? I agree that you shouldn't PUNISH a puppy for peeing or pooping indoors (beat yourselves instead for your lapse of attention) - but if you're going to praise them for peeing or pooping in the right spot, why not share your disappointment for their doing it in the wrong spot, provided you can catch them in the act?

 

I live on a farm, but I still like my sleep. I am a much happier person if puppies sleep through the night as soon as possible. I wouldn't even be providing entertainment (sticking my hand through the crate). They figure it out, and it doesn't destroy their souls.



#10 coffeegirl

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 06:19 PM

Whyever would you not react? I agree that you shouldn't PUNISH a puppy for peeing or pooping indoors (beat yourselves instead for your lapse of attention) - but if you're going to praise them for peeing or pooping in the right spot, why not share your disappointment for their doing it in the wrong spot, provided you can catch them in the act?

 

I live on a farm, but I still like my sleep. I am a much happier person if puppies sleep through the night as soon as possible. I wouldn't even be providing entertainment (sticking my hand through the crate). They figure it out, and it doesn't destroy their souls.

 

 

 

Ha! Indeed. Well, she's sleeping 10-6 now. I plop her nonchalantly in her crate, cover it up, and that's that. I wake her up in the morning, and my husband's glad not to be lonely anymore. What a difference a week makes!

 

I didn't really have an option of letting her just cry it out anyway. I share a wall with neighbours in a row house. Thankfully, she's also now fine with being plopped in her crate for an hour or two and she doesn't make a peep until I let her out.

 

However, today we sort of went backwards with the peeing in the house during the day, and yesterday wasn't so great either. I guess she somehow got a wire crossed, and I'm sure it will work out eventually. (It's also possible I'm just stopped watching her like a hawk when she started improving, so now I need to backtrack a little.)



#11 BillG

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Posted 19 April 2018 - 08:15 PM

When my Gina was 8 weeks old she was in the crate from 9 to 6 in the morning when we went out together. She did both potties and came back in. Rain or snow cold or colder. I did limit water intake after 8 pm at night but not now. She was put outside every 2 hours during the day and rewarded with an atta girl or treat when she pottied.

Retired Community College Instructor, HVAC/R & Electrician.  Gina -  Border Collie / Aussie pup.  Ankeny Laser Engraving



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