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I went out to talk to this lady about doing a mural tonight. I brought my camera along in case i needed to take pics of some walls. Well, her gorgeous red/white BC met me at the door...and I I crooned over her, I heard little yelpings from around the corner. Wouldn't you know it...i found this:

 

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In particular, this little girl...who, by coincidence, was looking for a home:

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I think I am in love. <3 <3 <3 <3...

 

The sire is a working dog, the mother a very well behaved, smallish, frisbee-loving angel from working bloodlines. Both dogs vet-checked to be perfectly healthy, papers, etc...The puppies have been raised underfoot, in the household, and will be ready by the end of next week.

 

So, what do you all think? I find it totally ironic I turn up to paint a mural at a house full of border collies.

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Hi its me the devil's advocate! :rolleyes: Perhaps look a bit more into the bloodlines or ask more about the working sire. What sort of work? Regular work? Trialing? Are most of the puppies placed already? Why did she breed this litter? You know the questions? It looks good, but I have seen lots of posts of your concerns with rescue and such. You seem like a great caring person, you might take a moment to think about this :D Yes I am being the devil's advocate, or perhaps the working bred BC's advocate. Does this situation with this litter sound really good, sure! Is it the right thing to do? I don't know without more information, at least for me that would be the case. I do know you have been through terrible times this last while. I am thinking of you.

Good luck,

Caroline

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I see they're all red, which makes me think "color breeding." And the dam not being a working dog would personally turn me off from this litter. I hate to be a wet blanket, but thatis my opinion.

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Devil's Advocate's are very good and are very helpful for pointing out things that you should remember. However, I saw that sweet baby's face and thought, it IS fate. She's absolutely adorable. (As you can see, I would be a terrible Devil's Advocate, so listen to Caroline.)

 

Allie and I are sitting here sipping a glass of red wine (me, not Allie) and sharing a plate of peanut butter crackers (haute cuisine at around midnight - just finished putting together a huge pot of Irish Stew for a lunch tomorrow).

 

I am a rescue girl at heart and always encourage people to go that route, if possible. But truly, Sarah, if this pup reaches out to you, go for it.

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VERY cute pup!

 

listen to what the others said for sure, but, also listen to your heart. I think that what your heart tells you is just as important as anything else. Maybe it is fate - then again, maybe not, only time will tell.

 

She sure is cute though.... :rolleyes:

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Living with Solo, I suppose I should believe in "fate," but I also believe in not compromising your values and beliefs. Hearts are fickle, and there's no such thing as an unappealing puppy.

 

I'm actually really surprised at some of these responses, but they also explain to me why pet stores are still in business and why otherwise levelheaded people buy dogs from backyard breeders.

 

It's not only about "I want." It's about "I want," and also about what's right and just. Putting money in the hands of breeders who probably shouldn't be breeding isn't right.

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This is what I know:

 

The sire and the dam just happened to both be red. (Her boyfriend is the one who owns the sire.) It wasn't anything to do with color breeding, but the woman who owned the dam wanted to breed her girl just once, to have puppies from her, and she planned on keeping one of the males. (Not to breed, just to have offspring from her girl.) The boyfriend wanted a male out of his dog, too. I think it was her girl's temperment that mostly prompted her to breed her BC, but from the dog's behavior I would say they've done some awesome obedience work with her. She waited until her girl was three years old to breed her, which was the reccomended age her vet gave her. This was her one and only litter she ever plans to have. Her BC is going to get spayed soon after all her pups are gone.

 

The sire works livestock out on her boyfriend's farm. I don't know if he has competed in anything, and i only met him briefly, but he has a high drive and yet awesome manners. The man 'buzzed'--weird, I've never heard anyone use buzzing as a command--and the dog calmed right down, and layed by him. Both dogs were very friendly, and not opposed to meeting me, a stranger, at all.

 

I know they're both purebred, with papers, and from working lines, but that is about all I know of their lineage. I think this breeding was just of a personal endeavor to the woman, to obtain one of her girl's offspring, and for the experience. her son is autistic(sp?),and she mentioned that this has been a great learning experience for him, too...so that may have had something to do with it also.

 

From what I've seen, though they've not been doing it for years, they were very professional about it. They had both parents checked out, they've been taking awesome care of the pups (raising them indoors, teaching manners, wormings, vet visits, etc.) And this is their one and only breeding.

 

I've actually gone twice to local shelters, after BCs posted on petfinder in my area...and both times, I got there and the dog had already been adopted. One I happened to see while browsing through, and I was all ready to adopt him (gorgeous mix of some sort, sable, fluffy, with blue eyes) and literally as i was leading him to the front, the shelter hands came barging through and took the leash from me, yelling at each other about "who put this dog in adoptions!?" because apparently it's owner had showed up to take him home. (The background story on him was he'd been in there twice, cause he escapes out of his back yard where he is kept, the owner refuses to fix him, and yet will pay $200 to get him out.) So I can'r say I haven't *tried* rescue...it just hasn't been working out.

 

Oh, and I've been interested in 'Ice', that blue eyed beauty on the rescue category from TX...but they discovered she is deaf. I've never owned a deaf dog, or worked with one...or even encountered one, for that matter. I've been considering it, but I'm not quite sure if I'd be the right home. I have to admit to myself, as beautiful as she is, some one else with more experience with training deaf dogs, and living with them, might be more suitable.

 

So, maybe it is fate. I asked her to please hold her for me, and that I would let her know by next week, when the puppies are ready to go home at 8 weeks of age...

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I hate to be a wet blanket too, and I know how much you've been through and how much this little pup is crying out to your heart, but is this really what you want to do?

 

If you choose this pup then I know you will love her and raise her well, but don't forget there are many puppies out there. Rescues and properly bred pups. They are ALL totally adorable too!

 

I'll be thinking of you too.

 

(edited because we posted at the same time)

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Oh, I might add that most of the puppies are going to friends and family members, people they know well, live close to, and who they can keep in touch with. A couple of the puppies are going to working homes, and the rest are going to be companion homes. I'm the first person that they've met outside of their circle of friends that they're willing to sell a puppy to, because I've had experience with BCs. Apparently they're screening their buyers well. The woman even told me that she 'scared off' three people who called about the pups, because she didn't want them to go away to homes where she wasn't able to keep an eye on them, and with people who didn't know border collies.

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SoloRiver, I have only purchased an animal from a pet store once in my life, and I agree it was a HUGE mistake, but I was very, very young. I have never purchased an animal from a breeder of any sort - backyard or not. (All of my animals - with the one exception - have come from shelters, rescues and as strays.) However, I don't think that telling Sarah that if the pup she found fills an emotional need with her, that it is necessarily wrong.

 

I respect the views of the people on this Board, and am mostly very supportive. (I fix my animals and never breed them, I don't have sheep, so I don't buy a working dog, etc.) However, we have no information about what the folks who own this pup Sarah is talking about are asking for this dog or really very much info at all. So, it seems a little bit presumptuous of you to be condemning any positive response by others.

 

You are certainly entitled to your opinion and obviously Sarah was interested in what others thought or she wouldn't have posted. I do think, however, that a snap judgment as to the rest of our motivations was uncalled for.

 

Sarah, I still think that you should do what feels right for you. Good luck and let us know what happens.

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When I first read this, I said- serendipity. Sometimes things happen for a reason. Yes, this is not a practical, logical way of thinking, but it does. My two Kelpies were obtained, thinking back, in a somewhat dubious way- and I am sure many of us are alike in how they got their dogs. I couldn't imagine my life without them.

Sometimes in life, you have to do what your heart says to do. That isn't to say, you don't think it out, you do want to make sure that you aren't doing something that you have a bad feeling about, but love the puppy, rather, you have a good feeling, like the puppy, and are ready.

When I got my first Kelpie, there was a song on the radio that went "It's something unpredictable, but in the end it's right- I hope you have the time of your life" and you know, I STILL get chills when I hear this song. Oh have we EVER.

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I got Jackson from a woman I met on the internet while doing my tons of research on BCs. It all sounded good and I was literaly in touch with her for 2.5 years before we moved here and had the land to keep sheep and dogs. When I contacted her 3mos after buying the place she had a 3wk old litter. We drove up there (Jackson Springs NC) to pick a pup and got Jackson.

 

I tell you this because, knowing what I know now, I probly wouldn't have bothered with them. I would be looking where I am looking now for another pup. Even though these people had sheep, and I watched both parents work, I believe they do more demonstrations and such than actual work or trialing(as no one has heard of them). That being said, Jackson is an awsome dog and I can't imagine my life without him. I have been told he has potential, but until the rubber hits the road I won't know.

 

Go with fate. Sometimes the things we know get overridden by other powers that know more!

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Sarah - all I can say is "go with your heart"!Dogs and people come into one's life from many places - sometime through fate, and sometimes through planning and forethought. In the end, who's to say which is better?

I agree that rescue is the "ideal" situation to get a pet Border Collie from, but if fate points you down a different road, at least check out that road and see if it's a better way for you personally to travel.

(disclaimer- this is coming from a very "right-brained" person.)

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Sarah, I'm a firm believer in 'things happen for a reason'. Follow your heart on this one...and if your heart leads you to that puppy, go for it Good luck with whatever you decide..and whatever you decide, will be the right thing for you.

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I think this breeding was just of a personal endeavor to the woman, to obtain one of her girl's offspring, and for the experience. her son is autistic (sp?),and she mentioned that this has been a great learning experience for him, too...so that may have had something to do with it also.
Sarah

This sounds exactly like what I said when I had my first female. She was not breeding quality but at the time I didn?t know any better. My son is not autistic but I really thought the birth would teach him something.

Enough good people talked, and talked till I was finally informed enough to decide that I better wait. I'm so glad I did. the girl I wanted to breed is laying at my feet now, she's 9 and I also rescued her brother (we were his 7th home before the age of 18 months, now that should have told me something) they both are not in the greatest health and I can tell I'm in for a rough geriatric time with these 2. I'm so glad I didn't do it! But at the time, I had no idea what all I needed to know.

I don't think the lady you?re talking about is a bad person, just not informed properly. She's already done the deed and is now talking of spaying. So more litters will not be a worry.

But...alas, I have to side with the nay sayers on this one. It?s sorta an impulse buy. You've had such a rough go lately, no one could blame you if you do, but please take your time and make the right choice for your partner. She's going to be around for a long time. Do it right!

If you?re really interested why don't you ask to go see the sire work on the farm. Ask if they could turn the momma on to the sheep for a try so you can see if the girl is even interested. If anything I've learned its LOOK AT BOTH PARENTS working, because it's likely the pup will be like one, and if you have luck like mine it'll be the one that's not the better worker.

Now I only choose from 2 great workers, upping my odds!

 

Good luck and I'm sending you positive energy to make the best choice. No one is judging you, we?re just watching out for your best interests!

Kristen

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Sarah,

I pretty much agree with what Kristen said. This woman bred for all the wrong reasons--the reasons we state over and over on these boards as NOT being a good reasons to breed. And just because the pups are going to family and friends doesn't mean they are going to great homes. And what if each of those family members and friends wants to breed their dog just so they can have an offspring and so the kids can experience birth? This is the slippery slope of backyard breeding.

 

But ultimately the choice is yours. You must do what in your heart you think is right.

 

J.

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And what if she doesnt take her and someone that doesnt have a clue takes her and they screw her up and cant deal and the pup ends up in rescue with tons of baggage and bad habits and then someone has to take her and undo all that crap. I would tend more to agree 100% with nay-sayers if there was possibility of re-breeding. Sara is probly just rescueing this pup early.

 

JMO

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Originally posted by Dixie_Girl:

And what if she doesnt take her and someone that doesnt have a clue takes her and they screw her up and cant deal and the pup ends up in rescue with tons of baggage and bad habits and then someone has to take her and undo all that crap. I would tend more to agree 100% with nay-sayers if there was possibility of re-breeding. Sara is probly just rescueing this pup early.

 

JMO

Dixie_Girl,

Isn't this the very reason people give for "rescuing" the puppy from the pet store?

 

I think Sarah should do what she wants to do. She doesn't need to make excuses for her decision either way. She asked for opinions and she's gotten them. The final decision still rests with her and what her heart/gut says.

 

J.

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Julie, you are 100% correct in the reasoning behind some people buying from pet stores. And as I stated before, if the woman was going to keep breeding pups I too would feel the same. When the pet store sells a pup they see profit, so they bring in more which perpetuates as you know the problem. I just felt that this was one of those exceptions to the rules sort of things. I know I would NOT buy another pup from the people I got Jackson from for the reasons I already stated. I am going to get a pup this spring/summer but I know the pup I get this time is from people who DO know what they are doing. Like I said, I understand and agree with the rescue/breeding right, etc. philosophy. Like I said, if this woman was going to continue breeding then she would indeed be "contributing" to the problem.

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