Going from 2 dogs to 3

[Jexa]

Would anyone care to help me make a decision about whether to end up with 3 dogs? We currently have 10 month old Rudder, and my husband's one demand is that in about a year we get a lab puppy. I'm all for this, but both of us are pretty much head over heels for a BC in a rescue (see the rescue board and you'll understand!). My husband is all for getting 3 dogs total, but I'm not sure. We have a big backyard, the funds to take on the extra expense, plenty of room in the house, and are very active, but I don't know what it would be like having that many. I've never had more than 2, and have heard that a third is exponentially more work (which I can believe), and that it totally changes the human/dog interaction with three.

 

 

I guess my biggest concerns are that 3 would take too much extra work and energy..it's just a big unknown for me since I've never had that many. What else should I consider? Some other considerations for our situation: we're military, which means we will likely rent for several more years...I haven't found much info on it, but I worry that some rental places may cap the number of dogs allowed to 2, limiting our choices. Does anyone have any experiences with that?

 

Military also means moving every 3-4 years, though after moving my horse 2,000 miles an extra dog would be nothing You haven't been overwhelmed until you have a 16.3 hh, high strung, hot ex-racehorse who's been in the trailer he hates for 800 miles, and your overnight stall in the middle of nowhere was falsely advertised and is in fact a dump, and now you have no where to keep him and about an hour to find someplace suitable to board for the night. I'm convinced that day took 3 years off my life. But enough rambling.

I'd love to hear experiences from those who have gone from 2 dogs to 3 to help me make an informed decision. Thank you!

[Maralynn]

I had 3 dogs for about 2 years and am considering going back to 3 in the next year or so. I think it works best when the current dogs are pretty well trained since the new dogs learn by joining into the current routine.

 

I do individual training with my dogs, but also do a lot of group activities - ball or frisbee, walks etc. IME, it's fairly simple to add a third dog to an established routine. I'd also frequently take all 3 along in my car when I went places (easy to do in the north for about 9 months out of the year).

 

Bottom line for me - if you live a dog centered lifestyle or can easily incorporate your dogs into your life, then it's not too hard. If you like to do quite a few things outside of your dogs then it gets much harder.

[Kelleybean]

Hey, and a BC is a MUCH better choice than a Lab IMO!! I say snag the BC quick and consider it as avoiding a disaster with a lab puppy!

[geonni banner]

It may not be a problem to everyone, but I've had a number of people tell me that the step to 3 dogs created a pack mentality in their dogs. This can be a problem if you take them all three to a dog park or other public place where there are other dogs. They seem to be more likely to "gang up" on a stranger dog.

 

But I've also heard many people here say that their "pack" was no problem at venues like sheep or cattle trials. Maybe Border Collies - especially working Border Collies - just don't have time for this kind of mischief... Work to be done, you know - no foolishness!

[WildFlower]

My jump to three dogs was not really planned....

 

I do find that having three dogs is difficult sometimes. I only have 2 hands!

 

Thankfully, Teak is really well behaved and I can have her off leash a lot of times. But walking three leashed dogs in a neighborhood is a challenge.

 

Also, I bought a car when I only had two dogs. Fit 2 crates perfectly. Had to reconfigure that.

 

It hit me this year too the increased cost at the vet. Not sure why one to two dogs didn't as much.

 

But, I wouldn't trade my 3 for the world. I love them all and we get along just fine.

[Root Beer]

It really is different for everyone. I didn't find it all that big of a deal to go from 2 to 3. Speedy was just under a year old and the dog we added - Maddie - was about 2. So, she was more mature, and she was actually easier than Speedy at that point, and she just fit in perfectly. Although occasionally the two of them did tag team and go to town on a couple of items that ended up torn to shreds, but that would have happened had it only been the two of them. Sammie never participated in such shenanigans.

 

I didn't even find it difficult to go from 3 to 4, but I found 4 to 5 difficult. It wasn't any one dog in particular, but that number put the dog population over the top from my perspective. I didn't have time to train 5, I didn't really have time to give individual attention to 5. For some reason, I manage fine with 4 (which we are back to now), but 5 was just too many. It was worth it to add Tessa to our household, but I am hoping we never have that many again.

 

But I know other people who say the same thing about going from 2 to 3. So it really can be different from person to person.

 

FWIW, I consider three to be the perfect number. When we go on vacation in a few weeks, Sammie is staying with a friend, and I am excited to be going on a trip with only 3 dogs. For the first time in many, many years I will be able to go off by myself with the 3 of them and handle all of them on my own.

[vaporflowers]

The jump from two to three is much different I think than the jump from one to two.

 

You're also talking about getting several dogs in a relatively short amount of time. My goal, as someone mentioned above, is to get my one dog trained to a level I'm comfortable with, because they'll teach habits as well as picking up "new dog" stuff.

 

Border collies also tend towards some body sensitivity, and many (not all) don't like the frat-boy style of play that retrievers bring. When dogs mature at about 1.5 years (in my experience), their true personality and feelings towards other dogs solidifies. Many breeds grow up to be less social than they were as puppies, so it's something to think about. I keep my dogs socialized but I also respect their feelings about other dogs.

[urge to herd]

My experience going from 2 to 3 is cautionary. I was very naive about pack dynamics and about how screwy Shoshone was. By the time I realized what had happened, I wasn't willing to re-home any of the 3. Buzz was literally the dog who changed my husband's life, the odds of finding Shoshone a good/knowledgeable home were very low, and I couldn't give Samantha up.

 

When we added Buzz to our pack of 2 female dogs and 2 cats, Shoshone started a slow melt down. She became more aggressive to the cats and re-directed aggression to Samantha twice. We went to an excellent behaviorist 2x, and were told to give Shonie more structure. Well, I could do that, but DH couldn't. He wouldn't keep the dogs separated when I wasn't there, and was clueless about noticing stress signals.

 

When we lost Buzz in 2008, the social pressure dropped considerably, and Shonie calmed down. When Duke, the Evil Orange Cat, was euthanized a few months later, relations between Samantha and Shoshone and the remaining cat got even better.

 

You're probably a more skilled dog handler than I was, 14 years ago. Don't underestimate the social pressure aspect. Shoshone was a dog with a lot of issues, and things may have gone better for us if she had been more stable. Like I said, I was very naive.

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

[Cynthia P]

i barely remember the jump from 2 to 3 (as we are at 17 now); there is the logistics in the car issues, the who sleeps where, who guards what, who has issues where...and than there is the calling them the wrong name...I found hey you works well

 

As long as your pets are well behaved you'll find places to rent

 

cytnhia

[juliepoudrier]

It's really a personal limit thing. I have 9, had 10 until just a couple months ago. While that many dogs isn't ideal in many ways, it isn't a disaster either. Much depends on--as someone else said--how dog centric your life is. I don't find a pack to be a problem and my pack certainly doesn't get that pack mentality-gang up on something and kill it behavior either. They all get along, collectively and individually, with the cats and chickens.

 

I do believe it's not a great idea to add them all at once, but if you added a second now and a third in a year I don't see a problem with that. Keep in mind that rentals often consider the size of the dog(s) and a lab may be a dealbreaker for some. Then again, the last five places I've lived have been rentals and no one had a problem with my pack of dogs or cats (the numbers have varied over the period of time I was in the various rentals). If your dogs are well mannered and you have references from previous landlords, your vet, etc., you should be able to find places to rent.

 

So it really comes down to whether you think you can handle three dogs between the two of you. If the lab is to be mainly your hubby's dog and the border collies are yours, then individually neither of you will be overwhelmed by numbers. I realize that there will be plenty of times when you will be the one having to deal with all three, but if you've put the effort into creating mannerly dogs, you'll be fine.

 

P.S. Which dog on the rescue board?

 

J.

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

I read somewhere - Tony Iley's book? - that if, in the evening, you and your family can't sit peacefully in the living room with your dogs, you have too many dogs. Our pack is down to three (plus a couple guard dogs sometimes in the house) and that seems like hardly any dogs. Six in the house is our usual limit. But we both work at home. Dog packs love routine: up & out at the same time, train at the same time, fed at the same time, nap at the same time, out at the same time, walk at the same time, feed at the same time , , ,etc. With some exercise and training you should be able to handle three dogs and, if they're all Border Collies you can tell your landlord you have a dog. Singular. So long as you let them out separately, civilians can't tell one from another. I once watched Tom Lacy walk his dog in the back door of the motel. Then he walked his dog in the back door of the motel. Then he walked his dog . . .six times in all.

 

Donald McCaig

[Blackdawgs]

I plan to go from 2 to 3 and had some reservations. I did some dry runs with foster dogs, which gave me information on whether I and my dogs could handle a third. And it told me about the type of dog that would best fit into my current situation.

[bcnewe2]

I work from home and I think that makes a big difference. I have 4, have had up to 6. My life centers around the farm, the dogs, and my work from home. My kids are grown.

Since my life evolves around the dogs and my work can be done around them, having more than 2 doesn't really affect the picture, except expenses.

 

I like what Donald said,

Tony Iley's book? - that if, in the evening, you and your family can't sit peacefully in the living room with your dogs, you have too many dogs.

 

I see some people out there where 1 dog is to much!

[Jexa]

Thanks for all the responses! In many ways y'all have confirmed what I feared...that this is very much an individual preference and I'll have to make the decision based on what I think I can do, as well as what the dogs can handle.

 

Julie- Henry is the pup we're looking at, the red and white 6 month old with the "you can't resist me" face

 

I have heard about the "pack" issue when you get 3 dogs together, but I've heard so many different takes on it that I dont know what to think. What I've heard most is that 3 acting together will be more aggressive and less well behaved than 2, but I wonder if the underlying cause in some of those cases was actually getting the third dog or a change in the owners' behavior. Or perhaps as in Ruth's case, one of the dog's personalities? Any more thoughts on that? Maybe as well as how to prevent such behavior?

 

Were we to get 3, they'd likely spend lots of one on one time with us...or at least the two BCs with me and the lab with my hubby....the BCs to the barn and on runs with me when old enough, and the lab to deer camp with my hubby. Thankfully our hobbies and lifestyle accommodate dogs very easily, and we consider dogs to be a very important part of our life, so from that standpoint I don't think a third would change much. And any dog we own no matter the breed will be thoroughly trained.

 

I've also looked up rental policies and thus far have found that the issue isn't usually 2 vs 3, but how big, with the "accepted" weight being 25 lbs...which makes total sense, because as everyone knows terriers, Pomeranians and the like are SO much less destructive than BCs, goldens, great Danes...yeesh. And it seems to be more an issue with apartments than houses, which makes sense. I wouldn't want to be separated from a yappy dog by just a wall.

 

Great responses, keep 'em coming! I'm leaning towards thinking I can handle 3...

[Jexa]

BTW, I hope I'm not making it sound like the BCs would be "mine" and the lab would be "his". Though I wouldn't get one of my own accord when there are, you know, *border collies* to be had instead, I like labs and will love and play with/train our lab, my DH is completely wrapped around Rudder's paw, and like I said he would be trying to take Henry home today if it were totally up to him.

[Root Beer]

One thing that you might want to take into consideration - although this is also an individual thing - is spacing of ages.

 

When they were young, Sammie, Speedy, and Maddie being so close in age was fun. They were all about a year apart, Sammie the oldest, and Speedy the youngest. It was a blast having three energetic youngsters and three dogs close in age in their prime.

 

Now I've lost one and the other two are seniors together. It's expensive (arthritis meds, bloodwork, etc.) and it's difficult on an emotional level. Dean is about 4 years younger than Speedy and Tessa is about 3 years younger than Dean. I like that spacing a lot better. Yes, anything can happen and Sammie could outlive them all, but I would be hard pressed to add a new dog that is less than 3 years younger than the next one up. Of course, if the right dog came along at the right time, I'd deal. But it is something I am a lot more aware of now.

 

Just something else to consider.

[urge to herd]

Jexa, the rescue that adopted Shoshone to us was not well skilled in quirky dogs. There were several signs that Shoshone was perhaps overly bonded to her sibling, but nobody was experienced enough to pick up on them.

 

And Shoshone was a very strange dog and we didn't handle a lot of stuff right. She was terrified when she came to us, so we assumed she was had a shy/fearful temperment. Wrong. Wrong, wrong, wrong. She had a stand-offish temperment. She'd do anything for anyone who had food, but she really didn't care for human company. Maybe once a month she'd solicit any kind of affection, sometimes not then.

 

If we'd gotten her on anti anxiety medication earlier and we had given her more structure earlier, it might have helped. We sort of threw all the dogs in together as they came along, and that didn't work for us.

 

I posted not to make you think it wouldn't work, but to share my experience. Do watch for subtleties of body language between dogs, do make sure you provide structure for all the beasts, and do take personality into account.

 

Good luck!

 

Ruth and Agent Gibbs

[juliepoudrier]

I don't think three well-behaved/well-trained dogs are more likely to behave more aggressively in a pack than two would. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, all you have to do is go to a sheepdog trial and see all sorts of people walking all sorts of packs of dogs, off leash, through one another's packs, etc., without any fights ensuing. It's all about manners and expectations. Three dogs running loose on their own, roaming a neighborhood or the countryside certainly might behave more aggressively as a pack than two would, but under circumstances where you're in control of your own dogs (i.e., they are with you and not running loose unsupervised) I don't think the pack thing is something to worry about.

 

I was hoping it was Henry. I'd snatch him up myself if there was any way to ever justify it, which there's not.

 

Kristine is right about dogs who are close together in age, but for people like me who have signficantly more than three dogs, the geriatrics close together thing is just a fact of life that we have to accept. I lost Boy at 15 in October 2010. I lost Jill at nearly 16 in April of this year. Willow is 15 now and given her health probably won't make it to 16. Then there's Farleigh, who is 13.5, Kat who is 12, Twist, who turns 11 this year. Any or all of them could have something bad happen and I could lose them in the next year or two. Then I have three six year olds. One three year old. And one that's nearly a year old. The spacing of the younger dogs is more ideal (if you don't count the three six year olds), certainly, but the older dogs came when they did and even if I do end up losing several of them close together, I wouldn't have wanted to miss out on what they added to my life in the time they've been with me. But it is something to consider.

 

J.

[OurBoys]

Going from 2 dogs to 3 wasn’t hard for us. We had JJ for a couple of years before adopting Jake. That gave us time to train him (and us) and gave JJ time to bond with us.

 

When I started feeling the need for a 2nd dog, we adopted Jake. If he and JJ hadn’t gotten along, we would not have adopted him. We would have kept looking until the right dog came along. We were lucky that dog was Jake. We had him for a couple of years before Josie came into our lives.

 

Josie was a foster failure. Even though I fell in love with her at first sight, I had no intention of getting a 3rd dog but that little sneaky ass wormed her way into all of our hearts; even JJ & Jake’s, especially Jake’s. He fell head over heels in love with Josie. It even got to the point where he would get upset if JJ tried to play with her. (To see those 2 have at it really upset me. They had never done that before. At first I didn’t know what to do but finally realized all I needed to do was remind Jake how much JJ meant to him. After taking JJ & Jake out to play Frisbee 2 – 3 times while leaving Josie in the house, Jake remembered how much fun JJ was. Jake let JJ play with Josie after that.)

 

The only dog whose personality changed after bring Josie into our lives was Jake. Every time I bring a foster dog home he feels it’s his place to tell the foster dog where his place in the pack is. The foster dog is not allowed to go near Jake. Jake is the one who is to go up to the foster dog and when he does, the foster dog is not supposed to look at Jake. If s/he does, Jake growls at him/her. It usually takes several days before Jake accepts the foster. JJ, OTOH, usually ignores the foster. Josie is my go to dog. She’s the first one I send out to play with the foster.

 

I can't see my life with less than 3 dogs now.

[Jexa]

Ruth- thanks! I appreciate your sharing your experiences/lessons learned. Everything I hear is helping me make a better decision for all involved. Rudder is the sensitive type, so I tend to worry how things will impact him. He seems to have a great attitude towards other dogs, though, and seems to do well when I pay attention to them...in fact, I swear he brings them to me as though he showing the other dog "and see, here's my mommy! I've got her trained pretty well to cuddle me when I give her pathetic eyes, but I haven't broken her of her screeching habit whenever I eat horse poop."

 

Root Beer- yes, that is something I've considered. I'd much prefer to have their ages at least a few years apart, though I know it's doable if they're close. I've been slowing wearing down the hubby's desire to get a puppy in favor of a nice older dog, but we shall see. If we wait long enough though, a puppy will be a few years younger than the BCs (if we end up with Henry). Not much, but it would help.

[beachdogz]

I have always said that the jump from one to two dogs is nothing....two dogs are no more work than one. But...with three dogs, there is a visible difference. A little more work.

 

However, since it is Henry you are looking at....well, how can you NOT want him? He is absolutely, freakin' ADORABLE. Fell in love at first sight.

 

I say go for it! You only live once.

 

However, I would change his name Sorry all you "henry"-lovers.

[Liz P]

One thing that you might want to take into consideration - although this is also an individual thing - is spacing of ages.

 

This is very true! Dogs get very, very expensive once they become seniors (arthritis, kidney disease, cancer, etc). It's also sad to lose them close together. My ideal spacing is 3 years between dogs. That means I have no more than 1 or 2 seniors (expensive) and no more than 1 young dog in training at a time (lots of work).

 

Right now that isn't the case for me since I own an 11 year old, two 5 year olds (brothers), a 3 year old and a 1 year old. I would be happier with a single 5 year old, and the 1 year old was not a planned addition.

 

If my dogs were just pets, I would prefer to have 2. It's just easier to manage 2 and you don't run into so many road blocks. Many hotels have a 2 dog limit. Entering a dog friendly store with 2 dogs is fine, but once you get to 3 you might not be so welcome. Renting with more than 2 is harder, though not impossible.

[Jexa]

Julie- that basically confirms what I thought...maybe 3 misbehaving dogs just seem more menacing than one or two, and that's where the bad "pack" perception comes from.

 

Beachdogz- ah, now we get to the crux of the matter! In the back of your minds, you're all thinking "ha, ignorant dumba** has NO idea what shes getting into with three, but dammit we want more pictures of Henry! Sooooo ya, '3 dogs are no biggie. you should go get Henry. And post pictures. Lots and lots of pictures.'" Luckily for you lot I'm easily swayed. And yes, if we got him we'd rename him. I've never been a fan of dogs having human names. Probably a result of my third grade experience meeting my friend's nasty, smelly, mean little dog with the same name as me...

[Maralynn]

One thing that you might want to take into consideration - although this is also an individual thing - is spacing of ages.

 

When they were young, Sammie, Speedy, and Maddie being so close in age was fun. They were all about a year apart, Sammie the oldest, and Speedy the youngest. It was a blast having three energetic youngsters and three dogs close in age in their prime.

 

Now I've lost one and the other two are seniors together. It's expensive (arthritis meds, bloodwork, etc.) and it's difficult on an emotional level. Dean is about 4 years younger than Speedy and Tessa is about 3 years younger than Dean. I like that spacing a lot better. Yes, anything can happen and Sammie could outlive them all, but I would be hard pressed to add a new dog that is less than 3 years younger than the next one up. Of course, if the right dog came along at the right time, I'd deal. But it is something I am a lot more aware of now.

 

Just something else to consider.

 

Agree^^ I

 

My first two were 6 years apart in age and my current two are 4 years apart in age. It's a good spacing for me. If I add another one next year then they'll all be 4 years apart. My dogs haven't seemed to age fast at all so even with the age gap they're very happy doing things/playing together. My 12 y/o was just starting to slow down a bit (translation - I was setting to set a few limits on her activity after a play related injury) before she was diagnosed with cancer last year. She didn't "act her age" until about a month before she died from fast growing cancer.

[PSmitty]

I totally agree that you should go get Henry. Because I want to see him grow up! I'm nothing if not selfish...

 

Ok, for seriously... I have four right now. Ages 10, 7, 5, 3. Oddly, for me, the hardest transition was actually going from one to two. Mentally, that is, for some weird reason. Now, I swear I will never have just one dog. Watching my dogs all become buddies sealed that deal for me.

 

Anyway, going from two to three, was a piece of cake! Hardly felt any transition at all. Three to four was a bit of a transition. It wasn't bumpy as far as pack shifts or anything like that, but we did suddenly seem to feel the difference in vet costs, food costs and logistics like taking all four someplace, and having someone watch them on the rare times we both go out of town. Of course, the fourth wasn't planned (foster failure), but he is my husband's BFF, so we wouldn't have it any other way.

 

Thinking of what Donald said about relaxing at night with the dogs in the house...four is definitely not too many. In fact, I find they kind of split into groups a lot. Lilly and Alex like to hang together, and Will and Jack are best buds and like to play all the time. So they've worked it all out amongst themselves.

 

Now, I'm really itchy off and on for another dog, but I think my husband has finally drilled it into my head that five is too many for us. At least most of the time I'm convinced...