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OCD, not CHD


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I don't know why I typed CHD when I started the other topic. I guess my brain fell out. I'm interested in hearing from anyone who may know of BC families that carry or are suspect for OCD (Osteochondritis Dessicans). Please send private message if you're not comfortable naming names on public forum.

 

Thanks,

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Megan, the hereditability of OCD is not a settled question. There may be a hereditable TENDENCY toward OCD (which may be no more than a tendency toward faster growth), but environmental factors seem to play the principal role. For example, I know of a breeding between two top working border collies 10 years ago or so which produced 4 pups. Two of them (possibly even 3, I can't remember for sure) had OCD, and at least one required surgery. Nevertheless, the offspring were such superior sheepdogs that the breeding was repeated two more times, and none of the pups in those later litters had OCD. The only difference I know of was that the first litter was raised on puppy food, and the later ones on adult food. FWIW, I personally would not avoid a breeding just because it had produced some OCD in the past, but I would monitor the rate of growth of the pups and try to avoid traumatic or repetitive stress to the joints of the growing pups.

 

The ABCA's take on this and other health issues can be found here.

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Thanks Eileen,

 

Correspondence I received from OFA stated about the same thing; more firmly placing the blame on genetic inheritance, but still indicating environmental factors as contributors.

 

In case anyone is wondering, the dog I am curious about is dead and is not present in my dogs' lines nor in that of the dog I intend to breed to, so it's sheer curiousity and not doubt over my own breeding plans.

 

I had found two descendants from the dog that had OCD surgery and another questionable-but-undiagnosed (ie, was never taken to the vet about the limping). I was just wondering if there were others.

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Eileen,

What was the outcome of the pups with the OCD? Did they go on to have long working careers if they were properly treated for the affected joints?

I'm very curious....my pup's getting x-rays on Wed. I'm holding my breath and tears till then. Well maybe not my tears but I'm trying.

 

I would feel much better knowing the outcome of others did not effect their working careers to much.

TIA

Kristen

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Megan,

 

Heritability of OCD in areas such as the elbow is higher than OCD of the shoulder.

 

After years of following border collie litters with and without OCD, and in keeping current with the literature on it in all breeds, my feeling is that OCD of the shoulder in our breed overall is not directly heritable in a way that can be influenced significantly by selection against it.

 

For example, genetic diseases that have no environmental influence on their expression have heritabilities of 1.0. In other words, if you have the genes for it, you get the disease, period. The more environment plays a part in the expression of the disease, the lower the heritability and the more the disease is considered an inherited tendency. It is commonly accepted that heritability factors of 0.20 or greater can be influenced by selection. Hip dysplasia, for example, is reported to be in the heritability range of around 0.3. This means selection can influence the incidence of the disease, but environment can also play a big part in expression of the disease in those that have the genes for it so progress may not be very fast overall.

 

My guesstimate of the heritability OCD of the shoulder in border collies is that it's around 0.15, or somewhere just beneath our ability to influence the incidence from selection. However, it does run in some lines fairly strongly, and I imagine heritability in those lines is somewhat higher. In general, though, I would consider it a crap shoot. JMHO.

 

The fortunate thing about OCD is with timely surgery, recovery is generally excellent, with little to no future problems (for Kristen ).

 

I wrote an article on this in 1997 that is still pretty current. If you like, you can find it at:

 

http://www.stilhope.com/ocdarticle.htm

 

Denise

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Kristin, the two dogs that I knew that had surgery have so far been totally fine. The first is about 8 years old, I think, and after surgery at about 6 months, had a very active career with agility and frisbee, and is currently doing flyball. The second had the surgery earlier this year, and is back to herding with no problems.

 

When I posted above, I had forgotten about a fourth related dog (the third who had surgery). I believe he recovered physically but had some other issues which may have been related to the anesthesia. :rolleyes:

 

Denise, I will go read your article. It's really interesting that you've found the heritability to be be higher in the elbow than the shoulder. Are you talking strictly about the heritability, or the number of incidences? The reading I've done all indicates shoulders in males as the highest occurance, with the condition occuring much less often in females, and when it appears in females, usually occuring in hocks and stifles.

 

And thanks for your contribution over on the other board as well.

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Thanks Denise and Megan

My pup is a male and affected in the lower joint of his front leg. Is that the stifle? I call it his wrist for lack of better terminology.

 

He will be in for x-rays on Wed. and off to a specialist later in the week.

 

I thought your article was wonderful Denise. I have been scouring the web and yours gave me the most useful information in layman?s terms! Thanks!

 

OMT....can he do a bit of sheep work as long as I don't see any obvious changes till then? I think the damage is done but don't want to make it any worse. His gait is different but he is not lame.

 

I've been fencing all day to keep my mind off dogs and injuries....worked well but I'm beat!

 

Thanks again and if you have any other great articles you've written on other dog related issues, please point me in the right direction. I'm saving it for later reference and even thinking about taking it to the vet with me...just to help present our case.

 

Kristen

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Megan,

 

"Denise, I will go read your article. It's really interesting that you've found the heritability to be be higher in the elbow than the shoulder. Are you talking strictly about the heritability, or the number of incidences?

 

I'm saying heritability as in there is less environmental effect and a more direct heritability pattern. I don't think many border collies get this form though.

 

I want to be clear here that I'm a scientist not a vet. And I am not an OCD researcher. For that article I did a thorough review of the literature and summarized the results for a border collie magazine. None of those studies were my own research. There have been many studies documenting the heritability of OCD of the elbow. A couple I used for the article are:

 

Guthrie, S., Pidduck, H.G.: Heritability of elbow gastroenteritis within a closed population of dogs. J of Small Animal Pract. 31:93-96;1990

 

Padgett, G.A., Mostosky, U.V., Probst, C.W., Thomas, M.W., Krecke, C.F.: The inheritance of osteochondrosis dessicans and fragmented coronoid process of the elbow joint in labrador retrievers. JAAHA. 31:327-330;1995.

 

 

"The reading I've done all indicates shoulders in males as the highest occurance, with the condition occuring much less often in females, and when it appears in females, usually occuring in hocks and stifles."

 

I have not found this to be true in border collies. From the data I've gathered over the years, it's probably more common in males, but the most common site is the shoulder for both sexes.

 

"I've been told by people with suspect or affected dogs that Vitamin C helps. Do you know why it would help?"

 

It's been reported, but not shown in any formal studies I'm aware of, that Vit C helps with arthritis. How that would fit into OCD, other than that, I don't know. Maybe AK dog doc can help you here.

 

Denise

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Kristen,

 

"I thought your article was wonderful Denise. I have been scouring the web and yours gave me the most useful information in layman?s terms! Thanks!"

 

You're welcome. I'm glad it helped.

 

"OMT....can he do a bit of sheep work as long as I don't see any obvious changes till then?"

 

I couldn't say. Maybe AK dog doc, who is a vet, can help here too

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  • 11 years later...

I am currently treating my five month old male puppy for bilateral osteochondrosis of the medial humeral condyle. For those who are unfamiliar with the difference between OC and OCD, it (OC) is basically the preliminary phase of OCD. I suspect many dogs out there develop OC, recover without treatment of any kind and go on to be normal, active dogs. That said I am being very aggressive with medical management because I have easy access to it and I really want to prevent surgery if I can. I saw him offer a lame stride once coming out of his crate and promptly took him to work and radiographed both shoulders. He has not offered a lame step since...

 

I have been struggling to find any information or studies out there regarding treatment, other than rest, nutrition and NSAIDs, for the treatment of OC. Specifically treatment which actually prevents surgical debridement of OCD flaps.

 

I have created a survey and hope to have as many BC owners (with OC/OCD affected dogs or not) complete it as possible. This is a very basic survey because I was only allotted 10 questions. I am curious about what treatments are being offered for OC/OCD dogs and how effective they have been according to owners.

 

https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/JP9MP36

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  • 1 year later...

Hi! I know this is an older post, but I'm curious if there is any further info on this. I've heard through "the grapevine" that some have had success treating OC and OCD in pups less than 9 months old with Adequan and rest. Can anyone comment on that? Thanks so much! Heartful - I sent you a PM.

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