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Review of our online contacts class


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#1 alligande

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 07:18 AM

I asked on here for ideas on teaching a running Aframe, in the end I signed up for Anne Lenz's running contact class.

We are two weeks in and so far I am impressed by the attention to detail and her very responsive feedback. It is intensive though and if you can not train short periods most days then you will get left behind quickly.

It is not just the Aframe but the foundation work seems to be really good for contacts in general and I thought it would be interesting to work through the process of teaching a running DW even though I suspect I will end up putting a stop, having both would be really though. 



#2 gcv-border

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Posted 08 May 2017 - 09:18 PM

That is great to hear. I hope to hear more as you progress through the class.

 

I have never heard of Anne Lenz. I Googled her and found a FB page for the RC class that started Nov 7, 2016. Do you know how to find out about future classes? Does she have a website - or only FB?

 

Thanks.


Jovi

"Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog."  Charles F. Duran


#3 alligande

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 08:01 AM

No website, I think the only thing she teaches is the running contact class. The Shape Up women recommended her, they trained their running contacts with her online class. I tried emailing her but got no response and so sent her a FB message. And she friended me, and one day she announced the class!!!! It was a little strange getting a working spot as she chose who got one, I basically grovelled. I suspect she was looking for people with agility experience who would be able to keep up. The class is taught through FB.

There is a follow up course as well, if you have a working spot she guarantees you one on that.

Anne Lenz is the German 2016 individual FCI world champion.

I will provide updates

#4 gonetotervs

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Posted 09 May 2017 - 01:44 PM

Thanks! I'm starting the Shape Up foundations class with my 12 month old youngster, having heard good things about their teaching re handlers who are no longer able to really run.
But updates on contact foundation stuff would be great.!

#5 alligande

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 09:07 AM

Thanks! I'm starting the Shape Up foundations class with my 12 month old youngster, having heard good things about their teaching re handlers who are no longer able to really run.
But updates on contact foundation stuff would be great.!

Are you auditing or working? I audited the foundation class and have a working spot for beyond foundation, I really like their concepts and with modern courses either needing independence or be an Olympic sprinter to handle using physical cues, they use a nice balance between them. If you watch video of the Canadian international team this year you can see their influence, they are running but by using verbal cues and teaching independence they are able to be much further up the course and not have to baby sit turns, and their runs look really smooth and fluid. I am loving working their ideas with my 14 month old and starting to introduce them to my older dog, but I don't think he would ever make the transition fully as he is very sensitive to my motion.

#6 Heartful

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Posted 10 May 2017 - 04:39 PM

Are you auditing or working? I audited the foundation class and have a working spot for beyond foundation, I really like their concepts and with modern courses either needing independence or be an Olympic sprinter to handle using physical cues, they use a nice balance between them. If you watch video of the Canadian international team this year you can see their influence, they are running but by using verbal cues and teaching independence they are able to be much further up the course and not have to baby sit turns, and their runs look really smooth and fluid. I am loving working their ideas with my 14 month old and starting to introduce them to my older dog, but I don't think he would ever make the transition fully as he is very sensitive to my motion.

Having used Derrett Handling, I was unsure that my dog would make the switch to send and go work that Shape Up Dogs uses. She has. :) I so can't wait for the summer class to start and it looks like there are a few folks here who are joining!!! 


Tell me and I forget, teach me an I remember, involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin

#7 alligande

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 02:15 AM

Having used Derrett Handling, I was unsure that my dog would make the switch to send and go work that Shape Up Dogs uses. She has. :) I so can't wait for the summer class to start and it looks like there are a few folks here who are joining!!! 


Which class are you signed up for? I was happy to audit the foundation class as I felt I could do that without feedback, now we will be moving into more "real" handling I want the feedback as to how I can improve.

#8 gonetotervs

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Posted 11 May 2017 - 07:56 PM

alligande, I have an auditing spot for the foundations class.   My experience with a couple of other online seminars has been that my dog manages to get injured if I have a working spot, and I'm not technologically proficient so videoing myself from a decent angle, etc. is not my forte.   

I currently train here with someone who does international style with verbals and distance but doesn't have much in terms of puppy/young dog classes.   I've started some foundation stuff but am looking to see what can be done better and what I've missed entirely.    I'm starting to add verbals to my older competition dogs and find that it is helping keep bars up and commitment as well.  

 

I've also ordered the Sylvia Trkman extreme foundations Dvd after seeing a graduation video on Facebook.

 

My youngster is hugely smart, brave and resilient, but she's not got a lot of working stamina yet -- i.e.  I can get short amounts of good work out of her but she doesn't have that go-go-go drive some pups do.    It is enough to work with, but that's also another reason to audit rather than have a working spot; I won't put pressure on us to keep up if  she's not there yet.   



#9 alligande

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Posted 12 May 2017 - 02:14 AM

I loved the foundation class, it is intense and although spread over 18 weeks there is a lot of training to cover to keep up. My youngster does work hard, but not my like my older dog who doesn't ever want to stop. Any experienced agility trainer will have no problems auditing, from my observation it was not a class for a beginner human it was for beginner dogs.

I saw the promo video for Sylvia Trkmans DVD and I would say take the Shape-up class first as it is the underpinnings of what is in that video. They have a very specific way the skills build and how they use them.

I am not sure I would call it "international" obviously living in Spain and having ambition to be competive that is what we will compete on, but there is a wide variety of styles being successfully used, what I like about the shape-up concepts is that a reasonably fit 5ft 2" middle aged woman stands a good chance of getting round the course in a competive time with her fast dog and not frustrate him with late handling. We had a seminar recently where the two Brits who have American trained dogs used the opposite arm to handle a tunnel/dw discrimination like Shape-up would, our top Spanish trainer wanted a double blind and argued the opposite hand was slower, yet we were further up the course, than everyone else!

#10 gonetotervs

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Posted 14 May 2017 - 10:00 PM

I'm looking forward to it!

#11 Heartful

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Posted 15 May 2017 - 06:12 PM

Shape up dogs foundation summer session!!! 

Which class are you signed up for? I was happy to audit the foundation class as I felt I could do that without feedback, now we will be moving into more "real" handling I want the feedback as to how I can improve.


Tell me and I forget, teach me an I remember, involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin

#12 alligande

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 02:25 PM

So we are at about week 4 and Fen and I are still working on the basic exercise from week 1 , in Fen's case she has made the criteria 2 front paws on the target. Different dogs have been set different criteria, the little dogs need 4 paws, some back paws and for us it is front paws. This is not for the feint hearted! I think both of us are sick of working on sticking paws on the target, unlike him though I do understand that this is the vital building block. I have had to improvise from her videos to keep it interesting for him, sometimes I had speed with wing wraps, I alternate between the manners minder and coming to me to tug, sometimes I throw the toy and generally finding simple variations to keep the game fun.
I hurt my back before traveling to compete this weekend so we did not train today, but tomorrow after a break we will be back at it and if he is successful Anne says we can move on, it is a good job I am not auditing as I would not have stuck this single exercise out for so long.

#13 Heartful

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Posted 22 May 2017 - 04:58 PM

The timing must be a challenge to get down...I have thought about teaching a running a-frame, but I'm worried that I wouldn't be fast enough for a RDW...

 

 

So we are at about week 4 and Fen and I are still working on the basic exercise from week 1 , in Fen's case she has made the criteria 2 front paws on the target. Different dogs have been set different criteria, the little dogs need 4 paws, some back paws and for us it is front paws. This is not for the feint hearted! I think both of us are sick of working on sticking paws on the target, unlike him though I do understand that this is the vital building block. I have had to improvise from her videos to keep it interesting for him, sometimes I had speed with wing wraps, I alternate between the manners minder and coming to me to tug, sometimes I throw the toy and generally finding simple variations to keep the game fun.
I hurt my back before traveling to compete this weekend so we did not train today, but tomorrow after a break we will be back at it and if he is successful Anne says we can move on, it is a good job I am not auditing as I would not have stuck this single exercise out for so long.


Tell me and I forget, teach me an I remember, involve me and I learn." - Benjamin Franklin

#14 gcv-border

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 06:23 AM

Thanks for the update.

Jovi

"Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog."  Charles F. Duran


#15 gonetotervs

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Posted 23 May 2017 - 09:05 PM

I seriously doubt I want a RC because I like being able to hold my dog on a contact if necessary while I move into a position  -- but yeah, teaching foot targeting in addition to the existing nose target is now on my list of things to teach.....

 

thanks for this update and good luck in making this stick.  RCs are hugely impressive! 



#16 alligande

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 10:56 AM

I think I am insane going down this rabbit hole, I started wanting a running Aframe and a stopped DW, but all the resources teach a running DW first with the Aframe being a sorted of bonus prize. I wasn't happy with with the way I had seen teaching a running Aframe with stride regulators and that was the only way I had experience with so I went hunting and found Anne Lenz who's method was highly recommended by some very successful handlers, after watching some of them I realized with the verbal skills and independence Fen is learning a running DW might be a possibility, I would never be able to do it with my older dog as he does not have the level of independence needed. If I can't handle it then I will go to stopped, which I am planning on teaching as well as I think it will be great to have both.
FCI in Spain has brought in new rules in grade 3 to encourage speed, to get a Q / excellent run you have to be in 10% of the top time so once you get to grade 3 every run is going to have to be fast.

#17 airbear

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Posted 25 May 2017 - 01:50 PM

I think I am insane going down this rabbit hole, I started wanting a running Aframe and a stopped DW, but all the resources teach a running DW first with the Aframe being a sorted of bonus prize. I wasn't happy with with the way I had seen teaching a running Aframe with stride regulators and that was the only way I had experience with so I went hunting and found Anne Lenz who's method was highly recommended by some very successful handlers, after watching some of them I realized with the verbal skills and independence Fen is learning a running DW might be a possibility, I would never be able to do it with my older dog as he does not have the level of independence needed. If I can't handle it then I will go to stopped, which I am planning on teaching as well as I think it will be great to have both.
FCI in Spain has brought in new rules in grade 3 to encourage speed, to get a Q / excellent run you have to be in 10% of the top time so once you get to grade 3 every run is going to have to be fast.

Do it! It seriously is a fun thing to teach, and if you can't get it done, you should get a frame for free, and a pretty fast stopped DW.

 

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#18 alligande

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Posted 27 May 2017 - 05:07 AM

Here are a couple of videos of our progress, we were given permission to move onto the next stage so you can see some progression. One thing I have noticed is for an online class Anne is very flexible and has adapted what she suggests for each dog as their skills have evolved. I am very glad I am not auditing the class as you can't ask questions and think I would have moved on to soon and not done such a thorough job on the foundation.
This was in the second week
https://youtu.be/tyEWf8iKeGw
Week 3, trying to make the game more fun as he was obviously getting bored with simply putting paws on a target.
https://youtu.be/mzaUf6O2iYA
And this is our most recent session, it's a bit long but it is basically unedited as I wanted to show his progress in real time.
https://youtu.be/FUwN6LPd3Gs

#19 gcv-border

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 08:27 AM

Thanks for the videos. Looks like he is getting the idea. Do I hear a puppy whining in the background?  :-)) I hope you will post a future update. I am very interested in how easily it transfers to running a course.

 

Do you mind a few questions? The mat: what do you use? It looks light and flexible. Also, smaller than the contact zone. Is that to make the criteria (hit zone) harder for practice so that when the behavior is used on a course and the dog is more amped up, he can be a little 'sloppy' and still hit the contact zone?  From a previous post, you said that each dog has a different contact requirement (all 4 paws, front or back). Do you know why they are different? Size of dog or ???? Why did she recommend front paws for Fen?

 

Again, thanks for the update.


Jovi

"Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog."  Charles F. Duran


#20 alligande

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Posted 28 May 2017 - 02:22 PM

Thanks for the videos. Looks like he is getting the idea. Do I hear a puppy whining in the background?  :-)) I hope you will post a future update. I am very interested in how easily it transfers to running a course.

 

Do you mind a few questions? The mat: what do you use? It looks light and flexible. Also, smaller than the contact zone. Is that to make the criteria (hit zone) harder for practice so that when the behavior is used on a course and the dog is more amped up, he can be a little 'sloppy' and still hit the contact zone?  From a previous post, you said that each dog has a different contact requirement (all 4 paws, front or back). Do you know why they are different? Size of dog or ???? Why did she recommend front paws for Fen?

 

Again, thanks for the update.

You can ask as many questions as you like :)

 

First that horrendous complaining is not a puppy but my older complaining that it is not him on the course, he has been an only dog for along time!!!!! Agility is his game...

 

The mat: what do you use? It looks light and flexible.  I am actually not sure what it really is! they sell it on rolls here and it is a some sort of non-skid but I have never seen it used in a house, only for agility! There are all sorts of different things being used.

Also, smaller than the contact zone. There are two different sized targets, the one you see in my videos is 50cm which is half the FCI contact zone. We have also been working at home with a 25cm one but we have not advanced enough to use it on the board.

Is that to make the criteria (hit zone) harder for practice so that when the behavior is used on a course and the dog is more amped up, he can be a little 'sloppy' and still hit the contact zone?  I suspect you are right, but when you watch her dogs and the dogs from Shape Up Dogs (they recommended the course and took it with their young dogs) they all run all the way to bottom even in high pressure situations, so I think it might be really about teaching them to run all the way to the bottom so there can be no mistakes

From a previous post, you said that each dog has a different contact requirement (all 4 paws, front or back). Do you know why they are different? Size of dog or ???? Why did she recommend front paws for Fen? With the little dogs she has required them to have all 4 paws, I haven't asked why but it looks like it was really what the dog was comfortable with, from the original instructions I think her ideal is back feet. Fen is a big lanky dog who's not really done growing at 14 1/2 months! and really knows where his front paws are, while he doesn't seem as confident with the back ones. 

The way the group works, I am really no longer looking at other videos, everyone posts under the same original photo, so you don't see the new videos. The Shape Up Dogs does it just by adding a new comment so you see the new videos and comments easily, plus we are now doing the beyond foundation class and the contact class so are rather busy!




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