My Dog Keeps Eating Her Puppies

[DanaElizabeth]

When my mom died in 1998, my husband and I decided to get a pet for our son to help him cope with the loss. We chose a border collie because my great grandmother had one before I was born and she told me wonderful stories about how smart these dogs are. My son got to chose his own and the dog is truly wonderful. He is 8yrs old now and we love him dearly. My husband then got the great idea of mating our collie so we would have an offspring of the dog we love so much since our dog is getting older. My husband bought another border collie puppy and we raised her. She is 3yrs old. In October she had puppies but to my dismay and horror, she ate the puppies. I called the vet and asked other people what would make her do such a horrible thing and no one could tell me. She gave birth again today. I sat with her for over 3hrs. I left her side for a little bit to take a break and she has once again eaten her puppies. I am new to this board and I did read where collies should be bought for herding, not as pets. I didn't realize this although my male collie does pretty good at herding my 3 kids in his fenced in backyard. I am curious as to why my female collie ate her puppies. My family and I are devastated at our loss this evening.

[Falcon]

Just so you know, none of the puppies will be an exact copy of the dog you want. Why not just rescue a dog in need in honor of your beloved pet, rather than adding to the pet overpopulation problem?

Just saying.

[Joe Anne]

Seems to me that after this happened the first time, you would have or should have checked with and animal behaviorist, or someone other than a general vet or "other people", to get answers.Also seems to me that your vet should have cautioned you against letting her breed again, and if she/he didn't know the answer to your question as to why this happened, that makes it even more important, that he/she should have at the very least, referred you to someone who may be able to help you . Sounds to me like your next stop should be to a good vet to get your female spayed and your male neutered.

Period...

I am not trying to be insensitive to the loss of 2 precious litters of puppies and your families upset, BUT , first off it is never a "great idea", to mate and produce a litter of puppies, just so you can have an offspring. And it is also not good for her to have a litter with subsequent heats, only 5-6 mos apart.

Although this may not be what you want to hear, my guess is I am not the only one on these boards who will tell you the same or similar thing.... there are just tooooo many unwanted dogs already, and what about the other littermates. Most likely they or at least some of them will (or would have) ended up homeless or worse, and this is just a prime example of why so many dogs end up with less than an even adequate life.

Please get this poor dog spayed. Don't let this tragedy happen again. She seems to be an otherwise good dog.

I have to admit, this is a very sensitive issue for me, and I am quite upset that this happened once much less,"Twice", so I will stop while I am ahead, and say, just please, please...do the right thing, get her spayed.

[Nik]

I agree that she really needs to be spayed but I'm not going to harp on that. You asked why this happened. I don't know why it happens other than I've always been told that sometimes a mother just doesn't have that motherly instinct, or their is something wrong w/ the pups. Being that she ate 2 litters and not just one or two pups, I would rule out problems w/ the pups. Maybe she is just one of those dogs that just isn't cut out for motherhood.

 

Of course this is just a thought on my part..not an expert here. Although I would love to hear what AK dog doc would have to say about this. Please give it a go AK?!?!

[Stuporman]

You should try her with a different stud and see if she eats those pups. I wouldn't be too quick to blame her, as she may see a defect in your dog that instinct tells her would make for poor offspring. If you breed her with a different stud and she doesn't eat the pups, you'll know.

[Dixie_Girl]

I don't think she is killing her pups cuz she doesn't like the father, that's a human thing.

 

Being raised in the country and being around country folks with many dogs and cats, there was always someones dog or cat that killed their litters. Sometimes for reasons obvious but sometimes just cuz the mothers didn't recognize the pups as being hers. Instead they were seen as varmits. Some part told her she needed to protect, she just didn't know what! I would say any litter this bitch has will result in the same thing. I have seen people try to force a mom to be accepting and they just growl and wait for the opportunity to do what she wanted in the first place.

 

If for no other reason, which there are plenty, this is a reason to NEVER breed this bitch again.

[Dal & Mad's Mom]

I think like people there are some who are motherly and some who arent. Sorry for you loss but, please dont breed her again.

[AK dog doc]

Some dogs just aren't good mothers. Once might be a fluke or a problem or situation that was unique to that litter, but twice is probably something that is intrinsic to this dog. As for the cause, it could be many things - hormonal abnormalities, physical defects she detects in the pups, excessive disturbance of her or the whelping area, something "wrong" (from her point of view) with the whelping area, etc. The bottom line is that the reason you're not getting answers is that no one can probably tell you for certain WHY your dog did this. She can't speak English, so she cannot tell us, and there are so many other variables that it is unlikely that even with extensive testing you'll ever know for sure. Why take the risk? Are you willing to face the possibility (or liklihood) that this will happen again if you choose to breed her again? Unless her genetics are critically important, why would you want to go to the effort, or put her to the effort? Also, poor maternal instinct or abnormal maternal behavior is potentially heritable, so even if you were to take the pups away from her at birth and manage to hand-rear them, there is a potential for her to pass this along, which means that a future family and a future litter may suffer a similar event.

 

I can't imagine how disturbing this must be for you and (particularly) for your child. I guess I figure that re-breeding this dog would be a bad idea, since it would put her at the risk and cost of a pregnancy, without a good prognosis for a positive outcome. Perhaps it would be better just to enjoy her for the delight she is to you and your family, without trying to breed her.

 

It is true that your beloved male collie is not replicable. His offspring will not be exactly like him, any more than you are exactly like your parents. In fact, there is probably a GREATER chance of you being like your parents than for a dog to be like its parents, because we inherit our parental culture to a greater degree than a dog would do.

 

Good luck with this, and while your current state of distress is not the ideal one for making a decision, maybe in the next few days you can consider whether or not breeding this dog again is in anyone's best interests.

[DanaElizabeth]

Thank you for all of your input. We had already decided not to breed her anymore after she ate her litter last night. When she did it the first time we had wondered maybe she was too young and it being her first litter we figured we should give it one more chance. After it has happened twice we now know for certain it will continue to happen so we aren't going to let it happen again. It has been too hard on us. I came online last night looking for answers and I'm glad I found this board. It really bothered me when the vet couldn't even explain it. After the first litter I kept wondering what I could have done differently to have prevented it from happening. Like last night I had left her side. I don't blame myself especially since I stayed with her for over 3hrs last night unlike the first time when I left her after 30 minutes to call the vet. I love both my dogs and we will continue to enjoy both of them without any puppies.

[Dixie_Girl]

Dana that is a wise decision. I am sure it has been hard on all concern. Don't beat yourself up. Unless you removed pups from mom and raised yourself there is nothing you could have done.

 

Welcome to the board and best of luck to y'all!

[Falcon]

Yep, you made the right choice!

 

As Dixie said, welcome to the boards.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

A great way to honor the older male you love so much is to start finding out more about the breed, as you have done. I have a very dear older male that I had neutered at less than a year - now that he's almost ten I'd sure love to figure out some way to have him around always. But that's not literally possible of course.

 

Menawhile, however, I've learned a lot about his breeding and the dogs in his background and I've discovered there's several "lines" that produce dogs that are a lot like him. I've got a youngster now that is like a female version of him, but with many of her own charming ways. I wouldn't trade either one of them for all the gold in, um, wherever gold comes from these days . . .

 

I don't know where you are in North Carolina, but there's lots of opportunities to get involved in the breed around here, from sheepdog trials and training places, to just lots of us with Border collies as companions.

 

By the way, I don't think anybody on this site is against keeping Border collies as pets. It's breeding your pet Border collie where the problems arise. I'm not saying this would have not happened had your female been a farm worker or a trial dog (my Ben's maternal grandmother was also a puppy killer). But there's a multitude of other reasons Border collies who don't work, shouldn't be bred.

 

That's obviously water under the bridge now, however. I'm very sorry for the trauma your family has gone through and hope the best for you in the future - and welcome to the Boards!

[Odin's Momma]

Originally posted by Rebecca, Irena Farm:

By the way, I don't think anybody on this site is against keeping Border collies as pets. It's breeding your pet Border collie where the problems arise.

Yep, that's true! My Odin is 'just a pet' and we're accepted as much as any other BC!

 

Welcome to the boards, Dana!

[DanaElizabeth]

Rebecca,

 

Where is Semora, NC? I live in Eden, NC along the VA border.

 

It wasn't so much that we wanted an exact replica of our male dog. It was more along of the lines of having another part of him. The puppies in both litters looked nothing like him which was fine. It was just knowing they were a part of him. In another post someone suggested taking in another dog in honor of my male dog which is a good suggestion but I guess in my heart I wanted a part of my male dog - not his appearance or behavior - just knowing those puppies were a part of him. I would never have chosen one puppy out the litter and dumped the rest. In my dog's first litter she only had 2 puppies. In this litter she only had 3. I have a big fenced in backyard so I could have accomodated all the puppies.

 

This morning both dogs seemed depressed. I could understand the female(Queen Victoria) feeling that way but I was a little surprised when the male(Sir Laddie Lancelot)was laying around and not his usual running around barking self. That made me even sadder. When I got home from work both Laddie and Victoria were waiting on me like they usually do which made me feel better. My kids had to go to school this morning. They were sad but we were in a rush this morning so I don't know how they are really dealing with this. The first litter was born and eaten while they were at school. Unfortunately they saw a glimpse and heard this last litter. They cried themselves to sleep last night. I'm hoping for a better day today.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

I'm about 20 minutes southeast of Danville, VA, which is how you'd get here - through Danville. In NC, you can't get there from here.

 

Most likely the dogs are reading your family's emotions about the whole thing. Keep a close eye on your female for signs of pyometria - sometimes slight depression is the only sign of this life-threatening infection of the uterus. Probably she should also be taken to the vet to make sure she is "clean", since she didn't nurse the puppies (which releases hormones that tell the body to expel the remaining pregnancy tissues), and to check for mastitis.

 

I'd encourage you to get to know some more of us with Border collies. Dollars to donuts you'll start seeing a part of your male - and your female too! - in the relatives you'll be sure to meet. That's the fun part of Border collies. No two are alike but all of them share some little "thing" that goes back to their working heritage.

[Cheri McDonald]

Dana, I'm sorry for your experience and hope the children are coping okay too.

 

As everyone has said, you will find a sort of family here and learn oodles. I too encourage you to have both dogs spayed/neutered and enjoy them for who they are.

 

We all have our heart dogs, I can't imagine my life without my Rob. He was a rescue and has been the world to me. When the time comes for him to go to the bridge, I will simply honor him by rescuing another. There are just way too many in need.

 

Welcome and our good thoughts go out to you.

[DanaElizabeth]

Thank you. I appreciate all the support. I have spent a large part of today reading through past posts on this website and I have learned a lot already. I feel so dumb because I didn't do a lot of the training and so forth that the rest of you have done. I didn't have dogs growing up, just cats so I figured dogs taught themselves what they needed to know. However, my dogs are cared for, loved, and happy. Apparently while my husband was at work he also did research and learned a lot so we compared information. I feel so stupid because I should have researched collies before now. I did read up on collies in an encyclopedia when I got Laddie. I had a computer then but only used it for email. The breeders that we bought each dog from were not informative as well as the two vets we have used have not been informative either. I had no idea there was so much more involved with collies. We are hooked to collies and cannot imagine having any other dog. One thing about it, I've learned a lot from this experience.

 

I can tell Victoria is searching for her puppies. Other than that both dogs are back to their normal selves this evening. My kids are also fine except for continually asking me why this happened which I can't explain.

 

By the way, I am 30 minutes away from Danville VA. I've never heard of Semora, NC so I've learned something else today.

[punkrockbc]

Wow. What a terribly traumatic event for your family and your dogs. I wish your family the best, it must be so hard to explain this to your kids, but truly your female is not meant to be a Mom... I guess that's all you can tell them.

 

I totally admire you for joining this board and for researching Border Collies. BC's are wonderful family members, and they definitely are not your average dog! Don't feel stupid, feel good about yourself for being open-minded and working to improve yourself and your dogs lives. It really is never to late to start training with your Border Collies! I'm sure they'd enjoy Obedience classes, dog sports, and even herding classes with you. These activities really improve your bond and understanding of your dogs. You can post here any time you want information or advice!

 

I have a pet Border Collie, he is also from a bad breeder, albeit a breeder who works their dogs. They didn't seem to care if we knew a thing about BC's either (they were about to dump him in rescue) - which is not smart for any BC breeder, because most people do not have the lifestyle, time, or willingness to provide a quality life for a working dog. He is by far the most wonderful dog I have ever met! He completely understands me, and would do anything for me. I've been through Obedience, Agility, Flyball, Rally-O, and Herding classes with him, it makes him so happy AND it's super fun for my family too! Getting involved in dog sports will also make you more great friends than you can imagine! He is neutered, and I will never regret that. Yes, he's a fantastic dog, and I can't even imagine my life without him. But, that does not mean I could get a "piece" of him by breeding him, nor does it mean I'd ever want to. By breeding him, I'd not only add to the overpopulation of Border Collies (we have fostered for BC rescue, there are thousands of sweet BC's waiting for homes!), I would not be prepared to breed at all. Breeding must be left to professionals who dedicate their life to it, because it is a huge responsibility. You have to know the difference between a GOOD pet dog, and SUPERB breeding stock. You have to prove the physical soundness of your dogs through expensive x-rays and vet tests, and you have to prove them as excellent working dogs through countless hours of training and trialing. There is so much more to breeding than this, even, and on top of that... the average person cannot mentally handle the anguish that comes with breeding! It is not uncommon for bitches to die during or after giving birth, just imagine that trauma. And what happened to you is also horrific, just something that even an experienced breeder dreads. The best way to get a piece of your dog, is certaintly to rescue a dog of their breed who is in need of a home.

[AK dog doc]

And don't forget that part of what makes your other dogs great is you. They have what they were born with, but you gave them love, guidance, training, consistency and care, and allowed them to make the most of what they were born with. It's you who taught them how to live in a household and how to be part of your family. It's kind of like kids that way... every child is born with its own potential and personality, but how they are parented makes a giagantic difference to how they turn out. I have two nephews who could not be more unalike in temperament, but because my sister and her husband are terrific parents, and did not try to cookie-cutter rear them, or expect or desire them to be just alike, they are both turning out to be great kids - each in their own way. They have their similarities in genetics and experience, which makes them recognizably brothers both physically and behaviorally, though their personalities are quite different. But I defy anyone to pick out which is the "better" kid.

 

In the same general sort of way, another BC will have some genetic commonality with your current dogs (even if not a direct descendant of your dogs, they are still part of the same genetic group and have some significant things in common). So in a sense, any BC has something of your current dogs in them. None will ever replace your beloved dogs in your heart, but that's one of the cool things about dogs - they don't mind that you love your past dogs. It doesn't make them feel jealous or demeaned or like the ghost of another dog is standing in the way. My current dogs do not care a bit that I still love and miss the departed ones. In fact, they might have something to thank them for, because each of the old loves has made me more - so I have more to offer the new ones.

 

So maybe it's not just you that will have part of your older dogs, still, if you get another BC (even an "unrelated" one). Maybe it'll also be your future dogs who will have part of the ones who came before them, because surely they will have left an indelible impression on your heart, which will be part of what those future dogs inherit. In that sense, even if your dogs do not leave a genetic legacy, they certainly can leave another legacy, less tangible, perhaps, but possibly just as valuable.

[Keegan's Mom]

Dana,

 

I know right where Eden is...I had a friend who worked at an elementary in Eden but has now moved to Browns Summit.

 

Sorry for your lose, but I'm glad to see that you have gained knowledge about the breed.

 

I was a little in the dark when we got our first Border Collie, Keegan. I still have a lot to learn though and it seems to never end...so you are right there with us.

[DanaElizabeth]

Rachel,

 

I've been to Charlotte many times to go to Carowinds and to see my favorite race car driver - Dale Earnhardt Jr at the Lowes Motor Speedway.

[border colliez]

I am totally against breeding "pets", why would you do such a thing? Go to a rescue and adopt a dog. You will never get a replacement for your old dog. I hate to be so uppity, but this is why there are so many dogs in rescues, people breeding indiscriminately. Please, get your female spayed ASAP.

[Lunar]

border colliez, if you had bothered to read the entire thread you would have seen that she's already made the decision to do that.

[DanaElizabeth]

border colliez,

 

Believe me, I have seen the error of my ways and I will be scheduling her to be spayed. My job ends for the summer in 2 more weeks so her appt will be made for after those 2 weeks so that I can spend quality time with her. I admit I have been very clueless but I am learning. My intention in breeding my pets was never for money but to preserve my male dog whom I dearly love. We only wanted one litter of puppies, not to start a breeding program. None of the puppies would have been put in a shelter. I have rescued many cats in the past and could never imagine abandoning any animal. I did not grow up around dogs but family members in mine and my husband's family did have collies that they loved. They told us how wonderful collies are which prompted us to buy our first collie 8yrs ago. I've asked plenty of questions to breeders, vets, and other dog lovers but I have never come across such precise information as I have read on this site. I wish I had known about this site before now. We have more than suffered as a result of my husband and my bad decision. I respect your opinion of me but rest assure my intentions were not mean't to be bad.

 

I've had so many people around me to tell me to get rid of the "psycho dog" and I was condemned by a few when I told them I could not. I've had Victoria for 3yrs. We've had her since she was 3 months old. My home is the only home she has ever known and I know she loves me and my family even if I haven't been the best collie owner in that I was not properly educated before now on collies. I could beat myself up over this and convince myself I am unworthy for my two dogs but I know I'd do them even more harm if I were to give them to even the best collie person. I came on here looking for answers. I didn't get an answer as to why Victoria has done what she did but I have learned that I made a mistake in breeding my two dogs in the first place. Rest assure that mistake will not be repeated.

[smileyzookie]

Originally posted by DanaElizabeth:

I've had so many people around me to tell me to get rid of the "psycho dog" and I was condemned by a few when I told them I could not.

I respect that decision. I think in giving her away you'd be making another mistake. Some dogs are good moms some arent. You know this, you can move on. You are making correcting your mistakes and that is all you can do at this point. She is a dog, not a human that knows eatting children is bad. She shouldnt be punished by being abandoned by you, and Im glad you feel the same way. Good luck in the future. I do think you would benifit from adopting from the pound in the future as well. I got my girl Riven in February, and she's great. I hope everything clears up for you and you can put this in the past and move on.