Liz & Dylan Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Good evening, I had a question about a border collie puppy I was hoping I would be able to get some help with. I bought a puppy when she was 11 weeks old and brought her home. At about 13 weeks she began to show signs up unstabililty and uncoordinated movement. Now she is 16 weeks old and is having difficulty moving around. She is not in any pain, is still eating and drinking, still going to the bathroom regularly and coming happily when she is called. The only thing that seems to be wrong with her is her inability to stand on her own four feet. When she is out for a run she seems to be more stable than when out in the yard walking around and when she is in the house she stumbles around quite a bit and has more than once fallen down the stairs. My wife is concerned that our puppy has cerebellar abiotrophy and we are thinking about our options right now. I was wondering if anyone had any ideas as could what be possibly wrong with my puppy (if not cerebellar abiotrophy)? If it does turn out to be cerebellar abiotrophy is my only option to euthinize? Please help! Thanks in advance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheri McDonald Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Here is something I found on the net that says that male pups are affected and mother is the carrier. Pup is female? Has she had seizures. This is one for AK Dog Doc! Hope everything works out. "Affected dogs, their parents (carriers of the trait), and their siblings (suspect carriers) should not be bred. With x-linked cerebellar ataxia, only male pups are affected, and the mother is the carrier of the trait. FOR MORE INFORMATION ABOUT THIS DISORDER, PLEASE SEE YOUR VETERINARIAN." web page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK dog doc Posted April 9, 2004 Report Share Posted April 9, 2004 Hi Liz and Dylan (hi to you, too, Cheri!) I'll get back to you on this one, if that's okay... I had to take one of my dogs to surgery today for a bowel resection, so I've pretty much done myself in for the day, medically speaking. Bear with me and I'll try to give you a worthwhile reply soon. Right now I can hardly string two coherent medical thoughts together anyway, so I doubt I'd be of much use to you tonight even if I tried. I expect I'll be much better after a good night's sleep. And maybe a beer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz & Dylan Posted April 10, 2004 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Thanks Dog Doc, Again her only symptom appears to be the falling over. Other than that she appears to be a normal, happy puppy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Yikes! Please let us now how that went, AK Dog Doc. You're in our prayers today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted April 10, 2004 Report Share Posted April 10, 2004 Liz and Dylan, I'd say offhand that you don't need to worry about the disease you describe in particular. The information on it says girls don't show symptoms, though they can be carriers (carry the gene without showing the disease). I'd sure get her into the vet though pronto. What you describe could be anything from brain damage from a difficult whelping, to epileptic activity, to Canine Hip Dysplasia, to just simple puppy goofiness. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kajarrel Posted April 11, 2004 Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 A nonsex linked form of cerebellar abiotrophy was described in female border collie pups: http://www.vetpathology.org/cgi/content/full/39/6/736 A more general link about C.A. is: http://www.upei.ca/~cidd/Diseases/nervous%...0abiotrophy.htm A link describing cerebellar diseases in general can be found at: http://www.vin.com/proceedings/Proceedings...002&PID=PR02629 As Rebecca has stressed, dyscoordination can have many causes, so I'd also be inclined to see a vet asap. Please let us know what the final diagnosis is, if any, and good luck. Kim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK dog doc Posted April 11, 2004 Report Share Posted April 11, 2004 Becca, thanks for your concern over poor little Buddy. He's still pretty low but hanging in there, so, so far so good. I appreciate your prayers. He can use all the help he can get, poor little thing. He's still pretty feverish and has very little appetite, but at least he's not getting worse. Okay. Cerebellar abiotrophy. The cerebellum is responsible for controlling the rate, range and force of movement. Abiotrophy is the premature death of cells (in this case I think it's the Purkinje cells, but not certain on that.) So, a cerebellar abiotrophy dog would develop a progressive inability to control rate, range and force of movement. You would probably see an intention tremor developing (an intention tremor is when the dog's head jerks and bobs as it tries to initiate movement), as well as ataxia (incoordination), hypermetria (exaggerated movements of the legs, which might look like goose-stepping) and a sort or jerky abrupt gait. Affected dogs may fall forward or sideways with the legs in extension. You might also see a "bunny-hopping" gait, and/or the dog may start spending a lot of time lying down since movement is difficult. It tends to show up around 6 to 12 weeks of age in Borders (presuming this is the "BC-typical" form of the dsease). However, there are other forms of cerebellar abiotropy, which might show up a little later, and not every dog has read the book, so you can sometimes have a puppy do it their own way. I must strongly point out that this is not the only possibility and that I cannot diagnose your dog over he internet. This is something I would very strongly advise seeing a neurologist for - is there a veterinary university or a referral center within striking distance for you? If so, I'd ask your vet for a referral, even if s/he is really good at neurology; it never hurts to have an expert opinion. Becca is right that there is a form in which only male dogs are affected symptomatically, and that your puppy might be showing signs of another problem entirely. But, as Dr. Howie used to always tell us, never say never and always avoid always in medicine. So it is possible that this is another form of abiotrophy. Some dogs with abiotrophy do seem to stabilize after a year of age; they don't regrow the cells, but the don't get any worse. There *might* be a temporary reason for Purkinje cell loss - infectious, for instance - which could be recoverable with treatment, but I don't want you to hang all your hopes on that, and if that were the case, a spinal tap for CSF analysis would be in order (another thing the neurologist would be good for.) If it's one of the hereditary or genetic forms - of which there IS one in BCs - unfortunately there is no treatment. As far as euthanasia being your only option, I think that depends on how affected the dog is and whether or not it's pregressive. A dog that is completely happy but just kind of a klutz may have a perfectly happy life, albeit with more bumps and bruises than average. One that can't move around at all - well, for me that would be another matter. Apart from the pshychological quality of life issues, having a dog that is down a lot creates physical problems as well. And if the disease is progressive, unfortunately that would be a pretty grim outlook. If this does turn out to be of a suspected genetic origin, you might alert the breeders - not to tell them this is all their fault (since it might NOT be something inherited, it might be an error that this puppy made all on its own), but to let them know that it COULD be inherited, because they might not want to repeat that breeding. I certainly wouldn't, if I had any doubts. I wish you the best of luck with this, and I would love to hear how it turns out. I'll keep my fingers crossed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillTerry Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Ak Doc, How is your little Buddy doing? You have helped so many on these boards, I wish that we could help you in some way. Just know that we are concerned and care about Buddy and you. Terry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK dog doc Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Oh, thank you for asking (and for putting it that way.) Buddy had a ruptured intestinal mass, which caused a raging peritonitis (but never caused him to spike a high white count, curiously, nor did it create enough fluid to be visible on the Xray.) Bloodwork and Xrays have been normal all along. He HAD lost both his appetite and a frighteneing amount of weight (almost 6#, which took me three years to put on him in the first place - he's a poor keeper and always has been). On Friday I put him the tub at the clinic to give him a bath (he'd had a single bout of soft stool and had some in his coat) and I felt like something was wrong in his abdomen - but when I re-palpated him (for like the 50th time) I still couldn't find anything I'd put my finger on - his belly was soft and non-painful. Still, I'd had a sense of something weighty laying against his belly wall when I picked him up, so I asked my boss to feel him. Still nothing, even though he's got excellent plapation skills. But Buddy was spiking a fever, and the Little Voice (which I've learned never to ignore) said "You need to open him up." So we did, and found and resected the mass. It's in formalin right now and we'll be sending it in for histo today - I should know in a week if it's a malignancy or if it's scar tissue or something anomalous. Meanwhile, Buddy is starting to eat a little, though not well (a big "NO" on the baby food, a small "well, okay" on the deli roast beef torn into little strips and hand-fed.) He still has a fever of about 103.5 or so, and he's pretty tottery. Culture and sensitivity results should be back today, and meanwhile he's on triple antibiotic therapy. At any rate, he gets to go to work with me every day (a mixed blessing, since I DO THINGS to him at work), and I was able to pull his IV catheter since he's drinking on his own now. He is, in short, much improved, but by no means out of the woods. So, there's your "short answer" essay on the state of Buddy... hope you aren't sorry you asked! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shoofly Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Keep us updated on Buddy, we're all thinking about him! (and you!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2 Devils Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Give Buddy a hug from all of us... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oreo's mom Posted April 12, 2004 Report Share Posted April 12, 2004 Liz and Dylan - hope you found out what's going on with your puppy. AK Dog Doc - hope Buddy continues to improve. Praying for you all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tassie Posted April 13, 2004 Report Share Posted April 13, 2004 Scary stuff ? glad you listened to your ?Little Voice? Doc. Warm furry thoughts to you and Buddy, and to Liz & Dylan and their puppy from me and Fergus and Kirra on the other side of the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oreo's mom Posted April 14, 2004 Report Share Posted April 14, 2004 Liz & Dylan - how are things going with your puppy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AK dog doc Posted April 15, 2004 Report Share Posted April 15, 2004 I, too, was wondering if there was news and how things were going, if you're up for sharing. Crossing my fingers and praying for the best... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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