Other dogs reacting to intact male

[scomona]

Hi All,

 

Shiloh is now 16 months and doing great! We are living in Vancouver and he is very happy about the beaches and Ocean time.

 

He is still intact and we have run into a few issues. The first isn't such a big issue, but the ladies are crazy for him! Spay or not they are almost obsessed with him. He is very well trained and never runs off, but it has been really interesting.

 

We have however met several male dogs that have become very aggressive after they smell him. Shiloh is polite, looks away and lays down if needed. He will also show his belly, he is pretty shy and still just wants to play. One dog attacked him and my husband ran over, took the husky off of him- and the husky had bit Shiloh and my husband. During the past few weeks we have met at least 5 other male dogs that have pinned Shiloh by the throat and acted very aggressively towards him. At no time has Shiloh barked, growled or showed his teeth. Every time the other owner always says it is because he is intact and their dog is either "jealous" or doesn't "like" his smell.

 

I am wondering if he is having a major hormone release right now?

 

So we will be getting him neutered in the future because it is just unsafe for him currently and it cuts down on his freedom to be off leash at the beach and on the trails. Thanks for the input!

[mbc1963]

Hi,

 

I know that I have read on several websites about dog park rules that some parks advise people NOT to bring intact males in, because of this specific problem. There's something about the smell that sets other male dogs on edge and makes them more aggressive than usual.

 

I was walking Buddy once in the woods. Now, he generally doesn't love other dogs coming at him, but doesn't react unless they're "in his face." This time, though, a man had an Aussie who was probably 10 feet away when Buddy started to growl. Turned out the dog was intact. The smell is the only explanation I can give for Buddy's reaction.

 

(Meanwhile, though, Joey the Husky is our local "king of dogs," beloved by nearly all dogs in the neighborhood and revered by my dog - and he's the only intact male around. I saw this with one other intact male, too - Buddy would practically giggle like a schoolgirl when Pablo was around. Go figure! Seems to be some kind of 'calming confidence' certain dogs have that establish their dominance while making other dogs feel safe.)

 

I wonder, too, if your dog is now at an age where his body language has changed somewhat now that he's become a true adult? Or maybe, indeed, the body chemistry changes as the dogs leave adolescence behind, and other dogs can tell that he's now an adult who "means business."

 

This is hard for you - sorry your dog keeps getting attacked! Alas, my dog would be right there, too, although I would keep him away.

 

Mary

[Donald McCaig]

Dear Doggers,

 

Ms. Scomona asks.

 

"Every time the other owner always says it is because he is intact and their dog is either "jealous" or doesn't "like" his smell."

 

My intact Luke has been pre-mounted in dog parks from coast to coast. He gets along fine at sheepdog trials where few male dogs have been castrated and all are well mannered.

 

I say "premounted" not "mounted" because preventing such nonsense is why I'm there. While I keep an eye on Luke and others' ill-mannered eunuchs, Luke goes pretty much everywhere off lead.

 

 

Donald McCaig

[Maja]

I think it's other dogs' and their owners' problem. Not yours. How do you know the problem will end after the castration? Concerning huskies: I had one female attack my spayed female mix in her own yard. My dog that would always avoid a fight - she was a sort of therapy dog - everyone was calm with her. But that husky drew blood and she was trying to kill her. Of course there was zero obedience in the husky.

 

Maja

[border_collie_crazy]

I work in a doggy daycare and I HATE it when people dont have their dogs neutered, they simpley cannot play with other dogs..not because they are bad, but because the other dogs hate them, its not the intact dogs fault, they are often extremly friendly and well mannered, but they set off dogs who are otherwise extremly freindly and easy going simply by being intact..and in EVERY SINGLE CASE the problem has stopped intanstatly when the dog was neutered.

[Maralynn]

Every time the other owner always says it is because he is intact and their dog is either "jealous" or doesn't "like" his smell.

 

Nope. It's because these owners have not trained their dogs. Those dogs don't need to be running over and checking out your dog. And the owner should be much more aware and in control of their dog or keep them on leash.

[JohnLloydJones]

Nope. It's because these owners have not trained their dogs. Those dogs don't need to be running over and checking out your dog. And the owner should be much more aware and in control of their dog or keep them on leash.

Yes, that's my experience too. The really obnoxious intact males have owners that seem not to care that their dog is a pest and a nuisance.

[Vickkers]

others' ill-mannered eununchs,

 

OMG ROTFLMAO... I love it!

[ThunderHill]

Young male dogs in their "teens" (around 8 months to 2 years), especially intact young male dogs, seem to trigger a preemptive "slam him!" reflex in many fully adult dogs (of either gender). Often, once the young males are fully mature (and have figured out their own manners and where they generally rank socially) they stop getting picked on. It's a tough phase for young male humans who are coming of age and sorting themselves out, too.

 

I agree that the other dogs should have better manners about it. No need to pick on a goober "teen" just because he's awkward and/or instinct says he's likely to be obnoxious. And if the older dogs don't have natural good manners, then it's up to the humans to manage them properly. We're the ones creating an artificial social environment which multiplies such encounters between dogs who haven't had time to adjust their relationships to allow for the maturation process.

 

Intact males seem to have it worse, but it happens to neutered males, too. Neutering is absolutely no guarantee of peace in the commonweal.

 

LizS in SCPA

[Gloria Atwater]

Nope. It's because these owners have not trained their dogs. Those dogs don't need to be running over and checking out your dog. And the owner should be much more aware and in control of their dog or keep them on leash.

 

 

Agree completely. It's not your dog's fault that other people can't and don't control their male-aggressive dogs. Especially being as mild and polite as you describe him.

 

However, if you have no plans to breed him, then yes, neutering him will help render him more more socially acceptable to other intact males.

 

But the next time someone excuses their dog's attack by telling you he's "jealous" or "doesn't like his smell," go ahead and bite their idiotic heads off. Tell 'em they need to control their freakin' aggressive dog. You might even throw in the word, "lawsuit."

Signed,

 

Does Not Suffer Fools in Nevada.

 

~ Gloria

P.S.

Mr McCaig is right. There's a vast gulf between the BC culture and the dog park world. At Lacamas, there were well over 100 dogs on-site, no telling how many intact. Frequently there were multiple dogs off-leash, stretching their legs and going potty. But there was no fighting. No squabbles. And at night, the entire camp lay perfectly silent.

[njnovice]

Mick was a target when he was around that age, too. It stopped after he was neutered.

[mbc1963]

Side-note:

 

FWIW, my dog loves huskies, but the first-meet is generally tough, because in my experience they ALL like to mount Buddy. He gets snarky and they learn, and then play... but as a breed goes, they're VERY into the mounting thing. In my opinion.

 

Mary

[airbear]

I have a pretty good idea where the OP is walking, and I had the same problem, perhaps to a lesser degree (my dog was never taken down by another), until I had mine neutered. Yes, it's irritating and no doubt unpleasant for the dog too, so I hope this doesn't come off as defending idiot dog owners, because that's not my point. In a city like Vancouver, probably 90% of the city dogs are neutered, IME. We all walk around in a big happy eunuch world. When city dogs come across an intact male, well, it does seem to provoke bad behaviour out of some otherwise good dogs. I've seen perfectly nice dogs become quite aggressive when they meet an intact dog. There is SOMETHING about intact males that set off these dogs. That's life in the eunuch city. It's not because every city dog owner is an idiot. It's the reason why most daycares and dogwalkers do not allow intact males - it's for the intact male's own protection.

 

And I'll give you the other side. Lou has been mounted at various times while he has been setting sheep at trials. The mounters have been Open dogs running in USBCHA Open field trials (not that it mattered to Lou, but it seems to matter to some on this board). One time, my setting partner asked if "my bitch was in heat". My reply was "No, HE isn't". Another handler said that he must be living with a bitch in heat (wrong again). The general excuse was "he smells weird to my dog". Lou is one of the few neutered males at the sheep dog trials that we go to, and he has been puffed at, flirted with (by males), and "pre-mounted" (the full mounting aborted by a non-amourous jab of my boot at the mounter). I don't believe it's because the owners of those dogs are idiots, or can't control a dog, or don't care about manners. I think it's because a lot of the dogs that we run with at trials haven't met many neutered males and aren't at all sure what they're about. Kind of like city dogs encountering intact males.

[MicheleS.]

Interesting topic. Before Chase was neutered we were in an agility class with only one other male dog, an intact GSD. That dog seemed to have it out for Chase. I tried hard to see if Chase was giving any signals to set this dog off but I could see none. Chase would lie down, turned away from the dog and seemed to want to try to avoid the dog. The owner also wasn't handling her dog well, the dog definitely ran that show.

I also wondered if the other dog sensed weakness or something off with Chase because of his fear/shyness issues.

In any case, things seemed to get only slightly better when Chase was neutered. She left her dog intact.

Still didn't feel comfortable in that class because I felt that dog did have it out for Chase and the owner clearly had very little control. I was tired of always looking over my shoulder so we left and went elsewhere and are very happy in our class with 2 other male dogs with no issues between any of them

[MyTDogs]

Nope. It's because these owners have not trained their dogs. Those dogs don't need to be running over and checking out your dog. And the owner should be much more aware and in control of their dog or keep them on leash.

 

Exactly! You & Donald have it right. Unfortunately it is the intact dog that suffers & usually gets the blame too. It is a sad fact that we have made it so the the intact (unALTERD) dog is the abnormal one these days.

 

I guess the trade off is that we hopefully have fewer unwanted litters.

[BCjetta]

I know our neutered male aussie is a real jerk to 75% of intact males he comes across - he gets all stiff, growls, hackles up, blocking them from going certain directions.

The other 25% of intact males he gets really aroused and drools/froths at the mouth, whines and wants them to play with him...I don't really get why some get that reaction and some get the evil treatment. All I know is that if its an adolescent lab, its getting the evil treatment.

[njnovice]

I know our neutered male aussie is a real jerk to 75% of intact males he comes across - he gets all stiff, growls, hackles up, blocking them from going certain directions.

The other 25% of intact males he gets really aroused and drools/froths at the mouth, whines and wants them to play with him...I don't really get why some get that reaction and some get the evil treatment. All I know is that if its an adolescent lab, its getting the evil treatment.

 

Well, there really isn't a ruder dog out there than an adolescent lab. Mick has zero tolerance for retrievers.

[Izzysdad]

Tobey is great with other dogs, he understands how to interact with every dog he meets, whether someone wants to play, run, be ignored, etc. I haven't ever met a dog like him that understands other dogs body language and he really does like every dog he meets....but (you knew that coming right?) he has an issue with intact males.

 

I'm not sure if that it has to do with him only being neutered when he was 2.5 or if he was always like this? (for those that don't remember, Tobey is a rescue from a home that didn't pay too much attention to him and never bothered to get him fixed).

 

He doesn't start a fight with these intact males but he will avoid and let them know he's not happy with them and it's best to stay away.

 

My two girls will play with anyone fixed or not

 

Tim

[Dixie_Girl]

I've NEVER considered breeding Jackson, but I've never considered neutering him either. He just seems comfortable with himself. He has been around lots of unaltered dogs at sheepdog trials and the times I have taken him in town, and he has never even bristled or growled. Skip, on the other hand, was neutered because he used his "hormonal evilness" in bad ways. Such as with Jackson. He was always trying to show Jackson his barney-badass side. Fortunately, Jackson is a very mellow guy, and unless a dog is in his face, he tends to avoid. Now that Skip is neutered, he still gives Jackson a certain look that will make Jackson growl, but never act on it. I think there are a few dogs that just tend to be jerks and even neutering them won't change that completely. My dog Skip is a prime example.

[geonni banner]

Well, there really isn't a ruder dog out there than an adolescent lab. Mick has zero tolerance for retrievers.

 

I'm with Mick on this one. 'treivers. Meh.

[scomona]

Thanks everyone!

 

We really appreciate all of the comments.

 

I think if we decide to stay in the city- we will get him neutered in the coming months so he can enjoy all of these great spots to run off leash. He just adores other dogs so I think it will be the best for him.