The gay tail

[TaliC2007]

I have read a few comments on here about a gay tail. Do some pure bred Border Collie's just have these or does it mean there is something else in there? Is it a bad thing, or just another preference thing?

 

thanks,

Tammy

[juliepoudrier]

A gay tail is a tail that's held up over the back. It's only a bad thing if it is a sign of the dog's general attitude (with respect to stock). I know dogs who are excellent workers who have gay tails off stock. In fact, many working border collies will hold their tails up (if not quite curled over the back) when they are playing or when they want to make themselves more threatening. But in general stockpeople don't like to see a gay tail, especially on stock, because it means the dog is either distracted or simply not serious (on stock, a tail coming up usually means the dog is about to do something bad, like dive in and bite). For this reason, conformation folk have adopted a standard that marks a gay tail down.

 

A dog can be purebred and have a gay tail (I have one--a nonworker).

 

J.

[PSmitty]

I know the expert posers will be able to answer better , but I think concerns about a gay tail only apply when the dog is working. It's totally normal for a border collie who is playing to have a gay tail and it doesn't mean that the dog isn't all border collie. But, when it's work time, a low tail indicates the dog is taking his job seriously.

 

ETA-Ooops, posting at the same time, Julie.

[AK dog doc]

Finn (the poser) demonstrates the gay tail:

 

 

And also the really REALLY gay tail....

 

Pepper demonstrates the angry tail (note Finn veering away from her with the submissive eyes):

 

Both dogs are playing (it's just a frisbee, after all). Both drop their tails when working (although in Finn's case, the working thing doesn't come all the way together. However, he still takes it seriously.) Unfortunately, as I am always falling over sheep or stumbling in ruts while running backwards or otherwise looking extremely foolish while the dogs are working, I have no time to take pictures of their non-gay tails at that time. I pretty much find that looking like an imcompetent boob is a full-time effort that takes all my concentration. One day with luck and hard work I aspire to looking like a mere idiot, but for now it takes everything I have to manage even "incompetent boob" status.

 

P.S. Finn wants everyone to note that he rivals the Woo for posterior-adornment luxuriousness. This is an effort that took several years, as his first two years he sported a tail that looked like a candy cane with about 11 hairs hanging off of it, spaced about 2 inches apart....

[BustopherJones]

You cannot imagine just how tempted I am to offer a smart-*** response to this post; but I will behave myself and resist the temptation. (I really don't want Dixie Girl to send me to my crate again...)

[AK dog doc]

Now, you KNOW that only makes us want to demand to know what you were going to say....

[Pippin's person]

I pretty much find that looking like an imcompetent boob is a full-time effort that takes all my concentration.

 

I hear you and raise you a couple rounds of ineptitude, ineffectualness (to the degree that's a word), and general bungling

 

Here some gay and non-gay iterations of tails from our pack--oddly enough, Pippin has the gayest tail in our pack (and the plumiest), but I don't have any good pictures of it.

 

Rafe with the gay tail

 

And Rafey with the workin' tail

 

Tansy with the mud-happy gay tail

 

And the serious tail

 

Kyzer says "Wheeee"

 

And Hamish says, "Stay out of my way, I'm a dog on a mission"

[sluj]

You cannot imagine just how tempted I am to offer a smart-*** response to this post; but I will behave myself and resist the temptation. (I really don't want Dixie Girl to send me to my crate again...)

 

Four years of living in the SF bay area has apparently tainted my mind, because that was the first thing I thought when I saw the thread title. The second, of course, was "Woo pictures!"

[Pipedream Farm]

off stock:

 

working:

(by C. Henry)

 

Mark

[BustopherJones]

Four years of living in the SF bay area

Does that mean...never mind...

[TaliC2007]

Ok, so the gay tail can either be something they are born with, meaning it is always in that state, or it can also be an expression of the dogs attitude at the moment. Is that correct?

 

BTW, the pictures are great and what beautiful tails.

[PSmitty]

Ok, so the gay tail can either be something they are born with, meaning it is always in that state, or it can also be an expression of the dogs attitude at the moment.

 

No, dogs are not born with gay tails, they're just born with tails. All tails are the same, "gay tail" just relates to the postition of the tail, which *is* an expression of the dog's attitude at the moment.

[BustopherJones]

It might also be a lifestyle choice...

[painted_ponies]

Here's Faith, doing her best impression of a scorpion.

 

When their tail is up, sometimes they act like this :

 

Faith's tail is pretty much always up, but it's just because she's full of, er, joie de vivre. She can put it down - I've seen her do it for entire minutes on occasion.

[kelpiegirl]

THAT'S the same dog???????????

 

WOWEEE. Beautiful.

Julie

 

off stock:

 

working:

(by C. Henry)

 

Mark

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Sally, that's actually perfect - Faith's tail never went all the way down during that session (well, it may have for a brief moment but I can't remember). She was in full WHEEEE mode pretty much the whole time - which is fine for a dog just starting out - what trainers don't like to see is when that tail doesn't come down even much later.

 

Your other dog (oooooohhhh, sorry, bad with names and it's been a long day) on the other hand, had a couple minutes of WHEEE mode and then her tail went right down and I don't think it went back up again. It's one way that even the novice eye can pick out the moment that the dog "gets it"!

 

Ben flags his tail quite often and doesn't keep it all the way tucked like old timers like to see. Technically, he often works with a gay tail - and his work is correspondingly sloppy. When he's confident and working right, his tail goes right under his body - since it's huge and fluffy it makes a big "S" and the white tip sticks out from his hocks.

 

When he's in gay tail mode his tail goes straight out from his back for the first couple vertebrae, then it falls straight down, then swirls out at the hocks again with the white tip sticking straight up like a foo-foo feather on a circus horse's head harness. Old time handlers, and even some modern handlers, cringe when they see a dog like Ben working stock - he's a loose cannon. Poor guy - he IS getting better but his age is catching up now.

 

Re: The term "gay" referring to the tail - since I read a lot of old literature and music where it means simply, "Lighthearted and thoughtless" - it's not a huge deal for me even though I spent the first twenty years of my life in SFO. I'll admit if I see it written it does give me a brief pause.

 

Here's another interesting point. The AKC folks tell a just-so story to justify their preference for the well-marked dog - that the white tail tip is the "shepherd's lantern" so the dog can be seen in low light. But if the tail is properly tucked, how can the shepherd see it?

 

Hmmm.

[Guest LJS1993]

It might also be a lifestyle choice...

 

 

I have nothing against Borders with gay tales myself.

[kelpiegirl]

Hardy har har

 

 

I have nothing against Borders with gay tales myself.

[Pippin's person]

Here's another interesting point. The AKC folks tell a just-so story to justify their preference for the well-marked dog - that the white tail tip is the "shepherd's lantern" so the dog can be seen in low light. But if the tail is properly tucked, how can the shepherd see it?

 

Hmmm.

 

After reading Julie's comment that having a gay tail was against breed standard for AKC, I went and actually read the standard (for pretty much the first time). Wow. There's some--well, I guess "interesting" is a word to use--wording there. Although it says that what matters most is the dog's conformation for working--it then goes on to specify pigmentation on the nose and eyes; preferred and dispreferred eye colors (blue is out except for merles) and similar things that have nothing whatsoever to do with conformation with working. Not trying (at all) to start a AKC/conformation rant or even discussion. I was just rather struck by finally reading the "standard". It's kind of interesting that they have something on the tail there since I'm pretty sure I saw Merlin (who won at least twice at Westminster, i think, plus no doubt plenty of other places) prancing along in the breed ring with his tail held high. I remember it because I thought at the time that at least he didn't think he was working....

[Millie&MeBC]

Millie's gay tail:

 

 

 

Down now:

Crouching

 

[NorthfieldNick]

Nick does not have a gay tail. He's all about the girls.

 

Unlike his owner... If I had a tail, it'd be gayer than Christmas

 

Okay, there. *I* made the stupid comment! LOL!

 

In all truth, I've never paid attention to Nick's tail. Now that I think about it, it only comes up when he's working when he makes cheap shots...

[Liz P]

This might be totally wrong, but years ago I was told that...

 

gay tail = one that doesn't drop, even when working (not at all desirable)

 

happy tail = does drop while working but is almost always curled over the back otherwise (I have a dog like this, people confuse him with a spitz mix even though he is a registered purebred and works stock like a dream.)

 

normal tail = is only curled over the back while excited or playing, otherwise is dropped or held midway up, curls under for work

[mbc1963]

Buddy definitely has a gay tail, and would probably be useless on stock, since he just wants to play:

 

 

And Buddy usually falls in love only with other male dogs. I love my happy gay border collie.

 

Mary

[sandra s.]

There's also the Proud Queenly Tail, aka the braggy flag:

to be worn on walks through one's core territory. Not to be confused with a careless Happy Tail!

 

Then there's the Busy Tail, for exploring the world:

 

The Kessie Tail (her usual tail wearing style):

a little braggy and a little busy.

 

And then there is, well, THIS (the closest she comes to a happy tail):

 

It does go down when she's staring at sheep.

 

I guess the variation makes hers a Normal Tail...with a lot of brag in it!

[TaliC2007]

Re: The term "gay" referring to the tail - since I read a lot of old literature and music where it means simply, "Lighthearted and thoughtless" - it's not a huge deal for me even though I spent the first twenty years of my life in SFO. I'll admit if I see it written it does give me a brief pause.

 

My mother's middle name is Gay. - Lynn Gay - I actually think she would be more offended by the actual meaning of it "thoughtless", than it's association with homosexuality. I will say people (her two grandson's mostly, one of which is my son) used to snicker about it 10-12 years ago, but now no one really seems to give it a second thought.

 

p.s. I LOVE Border Collie tails, gay or not.