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What traits do you look for in a competition dog?


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There was a great article about finding competition dogs (works for rescue or pup) and where I got a lot of good info for when I got Dazzle. Its a bit outdated now and is also mainly written for competition obedience, but still has a lot of good points that are still true (most of all the Puppy Aptitude Testing).

 

Most importantly though - really - pick the pup/dog that you want to live with - because things like agility don't come from instinct, so much more is in the training. More than anything picking a nice healthy, structurally sound dog/puppy is the most important. Here is the article:

http://www.familydogonline.com/Articles%20...your_future.htm

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On the money as usual, Kat :rolleyes:

 

I wanted (and have) my dogs primarily as my companions, but I wanted to be able to have them enjoy doing a variety of 'stuff' with me - including obedience, agility, tracking and therapy dog work. I didn't know about sheep work then - that came as a bonus with my girl.

 

I looked mainly for structural soundness, and a somewhat outgoing temperament. In the case of my girl, I was choosing from lines that I knew had success in the sort of areas I was looking for. (No guarantees there, obviously, since there are so many influencing factors, but it's a start. Much more important if you're looking for a dog to work stock.)

 

For me, it's important to have a somewhat 'up' dog - much less effort required to motivate the dog - although there's more effort required in harnessing and channeling the enthusiasm.

 

Partly because I'm a somewhat overweight and somewhat unfit senior - and a bit of a lazy and inconsistent trainer, we were never going to be a top competitive team - but that wasn't what I was after. We can do enough to achieve some success, and to improve together - and have a blast doing it.

 

Once it comes to actually choosing from particular possibles (chosen with the head) - I guess I would be choosing with the heart. That's assuming you're choosing a companion who will compete and will otherwise be your pet for life.

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When I look at puppies, I look for the confident one, the one with attitude of "look at me!" or "here I am world!". I also look to see which one wants to interact with me. I look at the dog's general conformation - how physically sound does he/she seem, does it move easily or does it stumble and seem to have 2 left feet? Does it look physcially balanced? And I look at the parents. Are they confident and physically sound and willing to work with their people? Then I go with my gut. Which one is connecting with me? Which one do I keep going back to? Not scientific by any means!

 

And (ducking my head) I look at how the litter's puppy aptitude test played out. This test doesn't have any bearing on how the puppy will work stock, but I think it does give us a glimpse of the puppy's overall temperament, biddably, and reactiveness. For agility, obedience, and just for having the dog as a pet, these tests can be an aid in choosing the pup that will be a good fit with us and our family. Like Kat's Dog said, bottom line, look for the one that you can live with. Their competitive lives are short but their time with us is long!

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seem to have 2 left feet

Actually, most dogs DO have two left feet. :rolleyes: Sorry, couldn't resist.

 

I sort of got cut short in my last post because I had to leave...but yes like the others have now said. Picking a pup/dog that does seem outgoing (not "spooky") and focuses on what YOU are doing and wants to join in the fun is a big plus. :D

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I agree with alot of what has already been said the biggest thing to remember is this: Pick a dog you can live with! Having a pup with lots of drive and desire to work, to go go go is all fine and good but what happens if injury -god forbid- ends his or your career early or even just temporarily? Some injury requires extended crate rest and rehab TPLO and ACL the two big ones. That said I like a pup that has good structure up front and behind - a nice sloping shoulder and not too much angulation behind. A desire to work and please without being totally nuts and the ability to settle in the house is good. Right now my 10 mo old Whim is on hyperdrive and believes that anything less than 10 hours of play is far to little, but when the lights go out at night he zonks out on the bed after only :rolleyes: 2-3 hours of play over the span of the day.

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I'm currently assessing a dog from work (large shelter) for service dog placement. I'm looking for a dog that is people centered but not so much that she always has to be glued to your side, confidence in the face of noises and visual surprises, able to entertain herself, problem solver (e.g. can figure out how to go around poles while leashed), dog and people friendly, but not to the point of screaming/ hard pulling over to say hi, etc. Good structure and biddability are also high up on the list.

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Temperament, temperament, temperament (confident, friendly, resiliant, NOT sound sensitive, intelligent, high prey drive, high food drive). Good, sound structure. And yes, get a dog you can live with the other 23 hours or more of the day when you're not doing agility/obedience/whatever.

 

I also put a lot of stock on whether the dog will retrieve, especially a small puppy. There is supposed to be a correlation between retrieving in puppies and a desire to work with people. The highest drive, best peformance dogs I've had were all retrievers from an early age without much in the way of training. Quinn was retrieving at 6 weeks. Not sure when the other started since I got him as a rescue at 9 months but considering he wasn't housebroken and hadn't been taught a single manner, I believe he figured it out on his own. Another puppy I rescued at 4 months picked up retrieving from watching an older dog. I never did performance sports with him but I think he would have been very good.

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within the working BC genepool (whether purebred or rescue), after pedigree (if available) I am looking for:

 

Flexible, adapatable, fluid temperament. Not a flake, not a hard head. I observe the puppy with people, with it's littermates, with the older dogs around it. How does it respond to frustration? Does it wig out, or get creative? Does it accept discipline from older dogs, or overreact? What does it do when it sees a new object in the play area? When the puppy gets tired does he keep going, and going, and going...getting more hyper and tired...or does he find a place to nap in the chaos and reset his own batteries?

 

When handling a puppy I like a "noodle" puppy. One that after it meets me is happy to be held in any position, relaxing and trusting me. I avoid pups who squelch and scream when I scoop them up out of the box with the litter. I like pups that seek me out, but don't obsess about me. Moderation is a word I use a lot - of structural soundess, and of emotional soundness

 

After that you build desire to learn and shape the pup as you need it. I don't have any need for retrieve, though some of my dogs do it regardless of the fact that I rarely reinforce it. Food drive is easy - all my dogs have it, as do most raw fed dogs I know. So I've got the tools for sport training - trainable (if you want to do retrieve, any normal dog can be taught), likes people and play (can be taught tug) and likes food. I avoid really high prey drive if I can - it has nothing to do with herding ability, and can get you in trouble with small dogs in sport activities.

 

Herding is even harder to select for, some would say impossible, in puppies. But that's another area of the forum.

 

For older dogs the criteria is similar,and I refer people to testing mechanisms like Sue Sternburg's to assess temperament around food and toys (among other issues) safely. Older dogs also need longer adaptation time before you can really "see" what they are, more baggage to bury if you will. It bodes well to get older dogs from rescue that the foster home has had them at least a month - they've had a chance to settle in and get past the honeymoon phase. And it's worth saying that "baggage" is no reason to not get an older dog - all dogs, even the ones we raise will have some, it's how you deal with it that counts.

 

For mature dogs I also look for moderation in structure and temperament. I want a soft eye. I want to see relaxed demeaner around children and other pets (frustation level evaluation, again, from sternburg). Excited is ok, unable to calm down...how much can you stand? Better be sure before you take 'em home.

 

It's all very gray areas - nothing is black and white in picking dogs. except the dogs...

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I was looking for a sport dog in particular when we adopted Dean. #1 on my list of qualities prior to meeting the dog was: 1 - purebred Border Collie. #2 - solid temperament. #3 - a dog that the person who knew him best at the rescue thought would respond well to clicker training. While I plan to do agility and rally with Dean, my main interest in getting a new sport dog was for Freestyle Dance. Good response to the clicker is a must in my book for a sport dog, particularly for Freestyle.

 

And once I picked out several dogs to meet based on that criteria, I went and fell in love with one of them. Because, of course, that is #1 most important to me.

 

Oh, and I was looking for a dog that was at least 6 months old. I wanted to skip the "baby puppy" stage and dive right into activities with the dog. He was 10 months old when we first adopted him, which I think was absolutely perfect.

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Guest TheRuffMuttGang

All of my dogs are rescues so I can't really describe what I would look for in a particular breeding, etc, but to me that's not really important. I look for a dog that has the temperament characteristics I am looking for so, IMO, an adolescent/young adult dog is actually better than a small pup. I prefer a dog in the 6-9 month old range because that's a good age to really look for the characteristics that you want. I look for a dog that is, A) Pretty over the top energetically, and B ) HIGHLY food AND toy motivated. With these two characteristics, you can pretty much train a dog to do whatever you want it to do. The more food/toy motivated, the better!!

 

To be honest, traits such as "good with people, good with dogs, etc" don't mean much to me because I've never had a problem working through behavioral issues such as these.

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To be honest, traits such as "good with people, good with dogs, etc" don't mean much to me because I've never had a problem working through behavioral issues such as these.

 

They mean a *lot* to me, because I don't want to work with the bigger behavioral issues. I've admired the tenacity of those who will, and yes, I more than have the skill level, but no...let the projects be somebody elses. I want the relatively uncomplicated dogs with similar problems (needs manners and boundaries for example, or just time to grow up in a home that understands the breed)- whether from rescue or as purchases from breeders. And since there are a lot of those, even in rescue, I don't feel like that narrows my choices.

 

After 6 months of age I prefer to get dogs in the 12-18 month range, possibly up to 3 depending on the dog's background. And I am talking about dogs with competition futures. I like the old ones when I'm thinking about a pet only. Just had a 10 year old in to foster, and I'm telling you, that can't be beat :D Well except by our own 15 adn 16 year old :rolleyes:

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I have never looked for a dog specifically for a sport. I think pretty much any Border Collie with decent not necessarily perfect structure (that's almost all of them) and a more or less normal temperament (that's most of them too) is an excellent agility candidate. In dog sports to a large extent the dog is what you make it, and if you start with a Border Collie you're already a leg up. I wouldn't want a dog I had to beg, cajole, and trick to do things with me, and that's why I have Border Collies.

 

(I have seen people train Shiba Inus in agility, and after having seen that, I think those folks deserved hardship pay. The results were incredibly impressive given what they started with but geez, I would never have the patience to work as hard as they did.)

 

Now, I am not one of those people who wants to be on the World Team, so your mileage may vary. 99.999% of the agility folks out there are never going to be on the World Team either. My goal is always to have fun with my dogs, and strengthen my relationship with them. I kind of have a hard time thinking of a dog being selected for agility; to me it's more about agility being something I do for the dog. To each her own.

 

I will agree that for a sports dog it is way way easier to start with a dog without major social problems and no major anxieties. I did start with a socially challenged and anxious dog, and you would probably be surprised at how much you can do with such a dog. Solo has participated in more different dog activities than most normal dogs ever get to do and at times has really shined at them. That said, working with a dog like Solo, my priorities were very different than they would have been if I'd started out with a behaviorally normal dog, and my rewards were very different. To me, they have been richer, and better, but I also realize that other trainers would not choose this; heck, if I'd known what I was getting into I probably wouldn't have either. (But oh, what I would have missed out on.)

 

I hope my next dog, which I am planning will be the first I raise from a puppy, will be Superdog -- behaviorally supernormal, extremely physically sound, talented at stock work, game for agility. To select this dog, I will go to a working breeder that I trust and pick the puppy that speaks to me the most. If I choose the breeding well I have no doubt that pretty much any puppy I pick will grow up to be the dog I want. I want for this one to have no major issues, mostly because I want to take it easy, and because I don't think I could have two project dogs at the same time and do them justice.

 

But, in the future, after Solo is gone -- and I can barely bring myself to think about that (I told him I expect him to live forever, or else) -- I will have another project dog. You see them on the rescue websites. They hang out on the websites forever because they're so hard to place. They are described with the code language I've learned to read between the lines of ("a little iffy with strangers," etc.). I have learned that living with such a dog is not as hard as it looks from the outside. I have discovered that these dogs can have deep, rich, complicated personalities and our relationships can be uniquely enriching and rewarding. I'll have another one someday. He won't be Solo, but he'll have his own challenges and rewards and things to teach me.

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I will agree that for a sports dog it is way way easier to start with a dog without major social problems and no major anxieties. I did start with a socially challenged and anxious dog, and you would probably be surprised at how much you can do with such a dog. Solo has participated in more different dog activities than most normal dogs ever get to do and at times has really shined at them. That said, working with a dog like Solo, my priorities were very different than they would have been if I'd started out with a behaviorally normal dog, and my rewards were very different. To me, they have been richer, and better, but I also realize that other trainers would not choose this; heck, if I'd known what I was getting into I probably wouldn't have either. (But oh, what I would have missed out on.)

 

Hear hear and hear hear! While I wish for his own sake that Speedy had never known a fear in his life, I wouldn't trade him for all the temperamentally stable dogs in the world - even if it meant making every World Team out there and winning everything. Seeing the dog that Speedy is today is worth more to me than any of that could ever mean. Most of what I've learned from him can't even be put into words, but every other dog I have in my life will reap the fruits of what Speedy has taught me.

 

But, in the future, after Solo is gone -- and I can barely bring myself to think about that (I told him I expect him to live forever, or else) -- I will have another project dog. You see them on the rescue websites. They hang out on the websites forever because they're so hard to place. They are described with the code language I've learned to read between the lines of ("a little iffy with strangers," etc.). I have learned that living with such a dog is not as hard as it looks from the outside. I have discovered that these dogs can have deep, rich, complicated personalities and our relationships can be uniquely enriching and rewarding. I'll have another one someday. He won't be Solo, but he'll have his own challenges and rewards and things to teach me.

 

And hear hear and hear and hear! I'm the same! I love Dean Dog and it is amazing working with a dog that doesn't have "issues". That is "temperamentally stable". That can learn to reach his potential without first having to learn how to be in a room with other dogs, etc.

 

But there is something truly unspeakably amazing about the ones that aren't "right". I can't really imagine life with all "normal" dogs. I would feel like there is something missing.

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There are dogs like Solo that can, will, and already have, made World Teams. They are managed, trained in excrutiating detail, etc. Neurosis does not mean non-competitive. It just means its harder, and if you like hard...hey, that's why some people run Shibi Inus in agility. Heck I know a Springer with an OTCH, yep an OTCH, and a junior hunter title that he got it because a talented trainer taught him to look at the ceiling/sky during stays because he couldn't look into anyone's eyes and blow into a rage.

 

I don't want hard, not in that way, and a lot of other people don't want it either. Nothing to look down upon! At lot less dogs would be rehomed if people who just be honest about their expectations and limits. If you want a project, grab it with my blessing and a karmic thank you, but leave my choices to say no without guilt.

 

This thread was about picking a dog for competition, and for most handlers it's difficult enough to master those skills without adding major behavioral problems.

 

so World Team dreams or not; it's about being honest, and selecting with a clear head the dog you want for you and you life so you can both be happy.

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I don't want hard, not in that way, and a lot of other people don't want it either. Nothing to look down upon!

 

I don't look down upon people who don't want it to be difficult. In a way I feel a twinge of envy for those who don't have to struggle just to get their dog to hold it together in situations that the dog finds trying.

 

I'm glad in my case that I ended up with a difficult dog, but it's definitely not for everybody. And that's not me "looking down" on anyone. Personally I don't think I'm up to the challenge of a blind or deaf dog, or one that is severely aggressive, or one that has epilepsy. I have all the respect in the world for those that can and do give dogs with those sorts of problems good-quality lives. To me having a fearful dog is second nature now and I like to share how much he has enriched my life. I never would have thought that possible, but it's really true. But that's not "looking down". Nor is the fact that, alongside my normal temperament dog, I will probably always want a fearful dog to assist.

 

At lot less dogs would be rehomed if people who just be honest about their expectations and limits. If you want a project, grab it with my blessing and a karmic thank you, but leave my choices to say no without guilt.

 

I felt no guilt when I sought out a temperamentally stable Border Collie to prepare for competition to be my "next dog". I don't think anyone should feel guilt for taking the time and effort to find the dog that suits them.

 

This thread was about picking a dog for competition, and for most handlers it's difficult enough to master those skills without adding major behavioral problems.

 

so World Team dreams or not; it's about being honest, and selecting with a clear head the dog you want for you and you life so you can both be happy.

 

Yes, but the OP asked us for our take on picking a dog for competition. The OP didn't really give us any idea of what he or she is looking for. I think the floor is definitely open to discuss the benefits and downfalls of all sorts of dogs.

 

It is 100% true that training my fearful dog for competition/sports has helped to heal him in ways that I never imagined, and it made me a handler that will appreciate a "normal" dog to the point of tears in the future.

 

It's not for everybody, but it is something that the OP should think about, as you said - honestly!

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