Double Dilute?

[Circle C]

Among all the "Is that a Husky" questions I have been asked many times (by more knowledgeable dog ppl) if "Fatboy" is a double dilute.

 

You tell me what color he is (I know he's a red merle), but what exaclty is double dilute and what does it/would it have to do with breeding him? (Not that I am, I'm merely curious to the genetics)

 

Here is a puppy pic:

 

Here is him now (9 months):

 

[jdarling]

Do you have photos of his sire and dam? Or a copy of his pedigree?

 

 

 

 

 

[Circle C]

Do you have photos of his sire and dam? Or a copy of his pedigree?

 

 

I did not take photos of sire and dam, but mother was a smooth blue eyed blue merle and father was a rough tri.

 

I have his papers here..I'm going to upload it. Give me a few min and I will be back to post it.

[PSmitty]

I don't know anything about double dilute, but you know that any dog with blue eyes is a husky, right?

[Circle C]

I don't know anything about double dilute, but you know that any dog with blue eyes is a husky, right?

 

 

LOL!!! Duh me! I forgot! One of his is actually half green and half blue. It's cool looking =)

 

 

 

Is there any website where you can upload a dog pedigree?? I cant get my scanner to work to copy his papers =(

[in2adventure]

And don't forget, if they have spots they must be a dalmtion cross

[jdarling]

If you have a camera, you can take a photo of it. That generally works.

 

Or ... if the breeder has a website, a lot of times they have the sire and dam pedigrees on there.

[Circle C]

If you have a camera, you can take a photo of it. That generally works.

 

Or ... if the breeder has a website, a lot of times they have the sire and dam pedigrees on there.

 

I dont have a camera handy and no they do not have a website. Perhaps I could email it to you? I got it made on a pedigree generator, but it came in HTML code.

[mbc1963]

My dog is a fairly traditional-looking tricolor who's mostly black and white. I occasionally get the "husky" comment, because his wide stripe and masky look are a bit similar to the same look on huskies.

 

Mary

[juliepoudrier]

It looks like he's a white factored merle (maybe also dilute--hard to tell from the photos). I suppose it's possible that the sire was a hidden merle, in which case you'd have a double merle, but it really looks like he has a lot of white from white factoring. I'd be leery of breeding him simply because of all the white, but that's just me.

 

The dilution gene lightens the color of the dark shade of a dog all over. So a B&W dog with a dilute gene is considered blue (looks grey) and a red dog with a dilute gene looks pale red or pinkish (referred to as lilac). The merle gene acts to dilute out the dark color in patches (instead of all over, as in the dilution gene). AFAIK the merle gene and the dilution gene act differently on coat color.

 

J.

[Circle C]

It looks like he's a white factored merle (maybe also dilute--hard to tell from the photos). I suppose it's possible that the sire was a hidden merle, in which case you'd have a double merle, but it really looks like he has a lot of white from white factoring. I'd be leery of breeding him simply because of all the white, but that's just me.

 

J.

 

Hmmm... I didnt think he had excessive white. His red merle coloring is however the lightest I've ever seen and he has one blue eye and one half green/half blue eye.

 

His dad was def a tri. Mosty black. I'm not sure what you mean by hidden merle??

 

Here are some more picture:

 

 

[MrSnappy]

A hidden (or cryptic, or phantom) merle is a dog who has a very small amount of merling in its coat that goes most undetected. This kind of dog will generally appear to be "normal" bi or tri colour, but have the smallest amount of merle, which genetically makes the dog a merle, even if he mostly doesn't appear to be one.

 

A "double merle" is a dog who has been bred from two merle parents, also known as a homozygous merle - the dog has two copies of a merle gene and the result is frequently a merle with excessive white and often times vision or hearing problems (ie deaf, blind). They are sometimes called "lethal whites" although the white is not lethal. Some people breed them out of ignorance, and some breed them because they are guaranteed merle puppies in the litter (albeit some will be white, blind and/or deaf) instead of just a possible 25% being merle in a merle-to-solid mating.

 

However, your dog just looks like a light red merle. It's hard to tell from your photos how much colour the dog truly has, as the photos are washed out and over exposed (no offense intended, but they are). The dog could be a dilute, - but a lot of the red merles are very pale.

 

The green and blue eye doesn't mean anything either. It's not uncommon for red dogs to have green eyes that fade to amber upon maturity. And many merles have bi-colour eyes. Both the parents would have to be carrying red to get the colour of your dog, and if your dog were a dilute, both would have to be carrying a gene for dilute. I think that unless you bought your dog from a candy cane colour breeder, this would be largely unlikely.

 

This is Chilli - she is a red merle with a lot (excessive?) white. She's not a dilute, but she seems to be similar in colouring to your dog:

 

Most of her colour is on her head. Her body is much paler.

 

RDM

[jdarling]

I've attempted to upload the pedigree Circle C sent me. I don't know much about this pedigree, but someone else might. Let me know if this works or not. I might be able to do something different if people can't open it this way.

 

CLICK HERE

Jodi

[JohnLloydJones]

Here's the document as a pdf for those who don't have a google docs account.

Comadrijo_Rojo.pdf

[juliepoudrier]

Hmmm... I didnt think he had excessive white. His red merle coloring is however the lightest I've ever seen and he has one blue eye and one half green/half blue eye.

I think RDM has answered most of your questions. White factoring doesn't necessarily mean excessive white (if it's my white factoring comment you're responding to). In the first set of photos you posted, it looked like your pup has white going up over the stifle on the hind leg. That, or white extenindg up over the rump (usually just a stripe, sometimes just a patch), is indicative of carrying the gene for white factoring.

 

Remember that the merle gene simply acts on the base color (black or red) that's already there by diluting it in patches (vs. overall dilution caused by a dilution gene), but does not affect the parts of the dog that are white. So the merle gene would not have any bearing on whether your dog also is white factored (which is not the same thing as the excessive white seen with a merle-to-merle breeding).

 

Merle dogs can very typically have multicolored eyes as well. The blue merle mix I owned had one blue eye and one brown eye and each eye had a patch of the opposite color in it. I've seen merle aussies with half and half eyes (one eye half of each color).

 

J.

[Circle C]

Thanks for posting his pedigree guys. I couldn't figure it out *blushes*

 

Chili is beautiful!!!! Her coloring is basically the same. Sorry for the poor quality photos. All of them are taken with a cell phone. It's all I have. Perhaps I will try to get better photos if I get a chance.

[Circle C]

Here are some better pics from today. You can see his white more clear:

 

 

 

[MyTDogs]

Wow, that doesn't even look like the same dog. The other pix must have been way overexposed!

 

In the new pix he looks to me like a typical red merle. He's a cutie

[Circle C]

Wow, that doesn't even look like the same dog. The other pix must have been way overexposed!

 

In the new pix he looks to me like a typical red merle. He's a cutie

 

 

IDK.... they are all cell phone pics. I imagine the sun in the summer pics over exposed them.. there is no sun here in pa today. Just fluffy white stuff LOL

 

Thanks! He's a little ADD, but he is a cool dog. He is only 9 months old =)

[Circle C]

I uploaded a bunch of pics in the gallery section. Its called winter fun in Pa. Lots of winter pics =)