Wendy V Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 It appears that Darci is going to get the one-on-one help that she needs at this point. The reason that I don't post more in this section, or any section, really, is that I often get lost in posts that ramble on without paragraph breaks. It is a visual thing for me. If the paragraph is longer than 2 inches, then I don't bother to read it. As Melanie said earlier, succinct questions, with details in following posts, tend to garner more responses. Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 It appears that Darci is going to get the one-on-one help that she needs at this point. The reason that I don't post more in this section, or any section, really, is that I often get lost in posts that ramble on without paragraph breaks. It is a visual thing for me. If the paragraph is longer than 2 inches, then I don't bother to read it. As Melanie said earlier, succinct questions, with details in following posts, tend to garner more responses. Cheers, I have to agree with you whole-heartedly. For some reason, long paragraphs dissuade me from reading a post as I find it hard to follow the thoughts being expressed. Shorter paragraphs, with reasonable and sensible breaks occuring, make it much easier for me to follow a line of thought and I am much more likely to actually read the post and get something out of it. And this is coming from someone (myself) who is known to be long-winded... That said, I was gone and missed this thread entirely until today. I am one of many who would most likely have not contributed because my level of (in)experience would have made me more the recipient of advice given rather than a giver of good advice. So, coming in late and finding so much deleted, made it hard for me to understand what was the question (until it was reposted). I really wish people would not delete posts (unless they are deemed objectionable or inappropriate by the board management) that are essential to the discussion because it makes it really hard to understand what is going on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy V Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Nicely written, Sue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Hello Mark, ....I had noticed that he was starting to read my body language and anticipate, more than listen to my voice, because we have done these same exercises so many times already. Darci, I really don't teach flank commands this early in the training. You want him reading your body language; so if you think he's (not you) getting bored they you need to change things up more. You don't want him mindlessly circling; but always watching where the balance point is and getting to balance. IMHO the primary goal at this stage is to help him develop a good feel for his sheep and fine tune his feeling for balance. If he needs to circle to stay relaxed to develop his feel for the sheep; then I would let him circle as long as he is not doing so mindlessly. Can you tell if and when he tunes out or just starts becoming stressed? Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pipedream Farm Posted April 11, 2009 Report Share Posted April 11, 2009 Wendy, The other reason I don't like posting here is I never know if the OP is reading the situation and dog the same way I would read it. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted April 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Darci, I really don't teach flank commands this early in the training. You want him reading your body language; so if you think he's (not you) getting bored they you need to change things up more. You don't want him mindlessly circling; but always watching where the balance point is and getting to balance. IMHO the primary goal at this stage is to help him develop a good feel for his sheep and fine tune his feeling for balance. If he needs to circle to stay relaxed to develop his feel for the sheep; then I would let him circle as long as he is not doing so mindlessly. Can you tell if and when he tunes out or just starts becoming stressed? Mark Hi Mark Today we changed things up in a big way, and he responded very well. I think he was quite relieved to be able to do other things, and did a very good job of it. I was actually shocked that in fact he was capable of doing all the things he was doing and doing it all so nicely. A few of us gals, Julie, Laura, Becca and I took the dogs out to work on the back of Julies place. No fences. Just open spaces, little coves of trees, standing water, varied terrain, little hills and bottoms. For the trained dogs, it was no sweat, but then Julie decided that we should bring Hank out there and work him. Huh!? Um....no thank you. I could already see the mess in my head, and wasnt brave enough to sacrifice Julies sheep to the woods and beyond. So Julie took him out there. He was so glad to not be circling and wearing and was even doing little drives and little outruns. Ya couldnt smack the grin off my face when that pup showed me all that he was really capable of. The mantra for the day? Cowboy up cupcake and Trust thy dog. So mixing it up, is definitly the answer for Hank. He was keen and had his listening ears on today and wasnt bored or not paying attention. He was really into it and enjoying himself, and I really enjoyed seeing that. I reckon like Carol said, that when given the opportunity, he showed me what he needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsnrs Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 My Sam is a gripper and can get a bit wild. The lambs are 3 months old and don't group but will split up. We'll take a bit longer and only work the ewes for awhile. N Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rebecca, Irena Farm Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 He did a really nice job Darci. Looking forward to seeing you two progress together! I could already see the mess in my head I do the same thing, and I learned that those "messes" were many times, training opportunities. My advice would be to push him and you just a teeny bit past your comfort zone, each time you work, and gradually you'll llearn what he actually can and can't handle all at once. As you saw Julie do, start with something he knows well. Then work up to something he really likes, but that lies outside your comfort zone with him. Yesterday that was when he was doing some driving with Julie, and he responded beautifully. You could actually see his brain grow by leaps and bounds as he started really thinking!! Once you learn the "worst case scenarios" you can become confident in what situations you can shrug and say, "Hey, why not?" and what situations you have to say, "No, thank you, I don't have enough dog for that yet." As to the latter, it's rarely a permanent situation, just something to go home and work on some more. And definitely nothing to take personally or go, "WHY, WHY, WHY, What's wrong with my dog?!?!?!" Just a training opportunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wendy V Posted April 12, 2009 Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 Wendy, The other reason I don't like posting here is I never know if the OP is reading the situation and dog the same way I would read it. Mark Exactly! Which is why the in-person training session is vital, as this thread has shown. Rebecca says: My advice would be to push him and you just a teeny bit past your comfort zone, each time you work, and gradually you'll llearn what he actually can and can't handle all at once. This is a very interesting point, the "comfort zone" she mentions. In the handlers training, it is common to pick up one training exercise and do it over and over, mostly due to the fact that the novice doesn't have any more tools in the toolbox, per say. Continuing education by way of lessons, videos, books, magazines, and even this forum, will give the novice more tools and greater goals for themselves and their dogs. Common "comfort level" traps are (as Darci mentions in this thread) round pen work, length of out-run, assisting on the drive, and fetching. As handlers, we have to push ourselves and our dogs to advance in our training, to gain greater control over greater distances, to train for flexibility and to know when to get out of the picture. I could elaborate and I even have a perfect anecdote for illustration, but I fear I might violate my 2-inch posting rule. Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1sheepdoggal Posted April 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2009 He did a really nice job Darci. Looking forward to seeing you two progress together! Yes, they did a very nice job, I was so tickeled! I do the same thing, and I learned that those "messes" were many times, training opportunities. Yesterday definitly showed that point to the max. As you saw Julie do, start with something he knows well. Then work up to something he really likes, but that lies outside your comfort zone with him. Yesterday that was when he was doing some driving with Julie, and he responded beautifully. You could actually see his brain grow by leaps and bounds as he started really thinking!! Yes! I actually got to see the "unbored" Hank starting to read his sheep and really using his head! Once you learn the "worst case scenarios" you can become confident in what situations you can shrug and say, "Hey, why not?" and what situations you have to say, "No, thank you, I don't have enough dog for that yet." Im wiping the words..."Yea But....." out of my vocabulary Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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