He Won't Play Fetch

[urge to herd]

I taught Gibbs just as soon as we got him that running after the ball is fun. Stupid human that I am, I taught him that then he gets to run wherever he pleases and drop the ball. Then I go and grab it and throw it again.

 

This has gone on 4 years almost, and I'm tiring of it. (All wisecracks and smart remarks accepted and deserved. )

 

I've run out of ideas to get him to fetch the ball to me. He brings a ball back to me, as long as we're playing in the living room. Take him out to the yard, I toss the ball, he bounds joyfully after it, picks it up, looks at me, drops it where he stands. I say, "Too bad" and turn and walk into the house. He bounds after me.

 

I've been doing this for 3 weeks now, maybe a bit longer. I've been consistent. I've tried using a clicker and food, but that seems to confuse the issue. He has very occasionally, maybe 10 times total over the last 3 weeks, brought the ball back to me.

 

Is there any hope? Am I doomed to live with this foolish mistake on my part haunting me forever?

 

Ruth and not-so-SuperGibbs

[Sue R]

I have two that fetch and one that does not. Dan sometimes needs encouragement but is pretty good. Megan is a fetch-a-holic.

 

Celt does not fetch (outside he doesn't, inside he does) and I think it's because he grew up with Megan who did all the fetching, and so why should he? He would get the ball, then come back in a sweeping big arc around behind me, drop the ball behind me where Megan (running alongside him) would pick it up and bring it to me as Celt continued his "outrun" until he was once again in the "zone" out in front of me where he anticipated the ball would land.

 

Since Dan's arrival, the play pattern is different - Celt waits out in the "zone" but makes no attempt to get the ball if Dan is in pursuit (which Dan is unless I make him stay with me). Megan will get the ball if Dan misses, and will fetch it. If Dan gets the ball, he'll bring it to me. Every few throws, I make Dan lie by me and as I send the ball, I call out Celt's name. He'll get the ball, go off to the side of the lawn a little, and chew, drop, pick up, chew, drop, pick up, until he relinquishes the ball to Megan who will fetch it to me.

 

Both Ed and I have made small attempts to "fix" this over the years but the dogs all get such fun out of what they do do anyway that we never followed through enough to make a difference. If I had a single dog and that dog would not fetch, that would be the end of the game because the point of fetch is to exercise the dog without over-exercising me!

[Chan]

I would break it down just a bit more since you're trying to override 4 years of habit.

 

You could start working on a bring it to hand in the yard first. Just put the ball on the ground near you with the goal of him picking it up and putting it in your hand. If you use a clicker you can shape it. After he'll put it in your hand from right in front of you, place it further away until you're working from a 4 or 5 foot distance.

 

Then, start tossing it, again, a short distance to start with and once he's successful increase the distance until you're really throwing it.

 

If you don't care if it's in your hand and just want it in the vicinity amend the criteria but keep the same idea - start small and back chain what you want.

 

My golden would come right back with the ball but then she stood there chew, chew, chewing it until she could finally spit it out. Drove me crazy but I never was able to totally fix it

 

Good luck!

[urge to herd]

Thanks, Chan, I hadn't thought of that. I'll give it a try.

 

Ruth and SuperGibbs

[B Point]

Well, this is what i do....not that it's necessary with my two fetch freaks.

 

In the house, make tug with the ball the fun focus. You'll have to get your hand in his mouth. You will get pinched from time to time unfortunately as he readjusts his grip on the ball. Play tug for a 10 beat and then order a "drop it". After the drop Immediately toss the ball a few feet away and repeat x 1000.....slowly increasing the distance of the toss while lessening the tug time. Outside, even with a long throw the tug is the payoff even if it's just for a few seconds. I can pick my guys up and swing them around by the ball in their mouth, not that you need to go that far. Some gloves might help..haha. You have to really get yourself amped up. It's a good workout.

 

This method is essentially the same as building interest in disc play.

 

Once that is conditioned you can start using two balls and shifting the focus from the tug to a touch of your hand then a drop, through or around your legs and racing after the second ball you are now in the midst of throwing....... it all happens really fast and keeps the game fluid.

 

Works for me but really... ball play pales in interest and intensity to frisbee.

 

Oh ya,,,leave the clicker and food in your pocket. They are total buzzkills... JMHO..

[aschlemm]

My current two Borders are stinkers about playing fetch. My male, Logan, loves to run after and grab it, then he zooms back to me, at some point he slams on his brakes, opens his mouth and flings it in my direction. Then zooms off for me to throw it again. Usually the ball ends up near my feet so I just pick it up. If it doesn't, I wave my hand and say "I can't reach it" then he'll grab it and fling it at me again. Ziva doesn't want to return things to me. What I do with her is I have another ball. Both balls have squeakers. When she grabs the one ball, I call her and squeak the other ball. She'll run to me, want the ball in my hand, drop the one in her mouth (usually at my feet) then I throw the other ball. I have one of those long handled tennis ball launchers so I don't have to bend over for the ball!

Maybe what would work for Gibbs is since he retrieves in the house when he's bringing the ball back make a big deal over it. "Bring it here, good, good boy, here." Play tug with it, then tell him "give" and throw it again. Maybe a command attached to the return trip would help and carry over to when you play outside. Good luck. I do enjoy playing fetch with my dogs at times when they need exercise but I don't have the time to hike them.

[urge to herd]

B Point - good ideas. I'll try tug with the ball, his favorite thing to fetch in the house is a sort of boomerang shaped thing. And yes, I tried to use it in the yard, but he looked at me like I was nuts. You know, "We play with THIS toy in the HOUSE! Why did you bring it outside, silly human?" already dumped the clicker/treats for this.

 

Aschlemm, I tried the over the top praise, and it shut him down totally. So softly, softly now. Yes, Chuckits are the absolute best thing ever invented.

 

Thanks all, I'll report back.

 

Ruth and SuperGibbs

[B Point]

Ya.. good luck. One final thought. The run up and turn between or around your legs (like in Frisbee competition) is a really important part. The dogs love it as it's a solid cue to "turn on the jets".....ensures no wishy washy half assed starts..

[cdillard]

I have a new little baby that is three months old. Our dear "Saint" of a BC fetched at 7 weeks old and after having him less than a week. The new baby does not want to give us the object back. He goes nearby and drops down and chews on it. We read about reverse chaining from a trainer. It seems to be helping. We started with him just putting the object in our hand and worked backwards. I let him chew for as long as he wants. Sometimes I even put the toy back in his mouth to chew. He finally made the connection that we can not throw the objectl unless he gives it to us??? I hope that this continues to improve as time goes on. I exchanged the object for a treat a few times?!

[Tommy Coyote]

My dogs aren't good at fetch. Tommy likes to get toys but she doesn't bring them back to me. She stops about 20 feet away and drops them and waits for me to get them. If that doesn't work she will bring up to the back door and drop them and stand there and wait for me to come out the door and throw them for her.

 

We don't play that game very much because I get tired of it pretty fast.

[haiku]

I had similar troubles with my girl when I first brought her home. She would bound after the ball, frisbee, squeaky-whatevers, she might mouth it or pick it up, but if I called her to come to me she would promptly drop it and bound to me. What I found worked for me was a different command for 'come' vs 'fetch'. I changed my command to bring me the ball or whatever I through to 'bring me,' which you can't help but have a cheery voice for and it worked like a charm. The other thing I did to start was only tossing the object at very short distances when transitioning from inside to outside, because she would happily bring me stuff inside no problem. I would treat her for picking it up and stepping even one step to me.

 

To be honest after having done this for four years I would treat this like teaching him something new, change the command and reforge in his mind that fetch means bringing the ball to your hand.

[medic09]

I was talking with my wife about this today, after playing fetch with Golan out back.

 

Shortly after I got him, I fell ill and could barely go out back; let alone do anything more exercising with him. I would throw a big Chuckit ball, he would chase it down, grab it, run it to another part of the yard, drop it and run off to set up with an eye on it. (Sort of like lying and watching a sheep while awaiting a command.) I would have to walk to get the ball, and start a new round. I let this go on for nearly a year, because it was almost the only exercise I got.

 

Then I wanted him to start fetching more normally. Nothing doing. My wife got him to change his mind. When he would drop the ball far from her, she would walk off to the porch and sit there. NOT go in the house. Going in the house seemed to be the signal that there was no 'fixing it'. Sitting off on the side, Golan figured out quickly if he brings the ball to her there, she'll take it and throw it. After a while of that, he inferred that he's supposed to just bring the ball back when thrown the first time. None of this dropping it at a distance, and having to watch her walk off to sit on the back porch. It also helps that she "acts like an idiot" (Kevin George's term) when she plays with him. Very vocal and enthused.

 

For a while, he would fetch to her; but play the old game with me. Once I learned to do what she did (NOT go in the house), he generalized the behavior to me, too.

 

We've moved from the big Chuckit ball, to one of those flexible flying squirrel/frisbee things, to a tennis ball. Now he fetches back to us almost every time. Not to hand, but drops it within a few feet - and that's okay with us. Twice now, when he's had enough, he's dropped the ball further away; as if he knows that will end the game.

 

I've also been using a hand signal, waiving him in as he runs up with the ball.

 

So, the key change I would suggest with Gibbs is DON'T go in the house. Go off to the side and ignore him (my wife would read a book for a minute or two); but be out there and available so he can try to 'fix it'. Maybe that subtle change will help.

[urge to herd]

Medic, that's a good idea. Starting with this today.

 

Haiku, I never used any particular cue for my previous dogs. My first bc basically taught herself to fetch, the next 2 learned from her. I can't recall saying anything. I did have all 3 for 9 years, and played ball with 2 x/day. I guess they figured out that if they didn't bring their ball back, they didn't get another chance.

 

B Point, I tried the tug with the ball. However, he's pinched my hand pretty bad a couple times in the past, and got a stern notice each time that he drops whatever it is for me. I've successfully taught him tug with the orange boomerang thing, but he's reluctant to hold on to anything when I put my hand in his mouth. Can't say I mind that.

 

The other thing I've noticed is if I stand facing him as he's coming towards me, he's much more likely to drop the ball a good distance away. If I turn sideways, and step out of his direct path, he's much more likely to come closer or even right up to me before he drops the ball.

 

Who woulda thunk fetch is such a delicate, detailed operation?!

 

Ruth and SuperGibbs

[B Point]

Haha...ya, you do get pinched pretty bad at the start but they do learn to be careful after a few of your "yelps". Depends on the ball as well.

Fetch is indeed a delicate, detailed operation....great description BTW... Each of my dogs is different, too. They are way more discerning about how fetch is played as compared to frisbee. It's an interesting dynamic.

[ziggzmom]

What I've noticed when I read peoples posts about dogs that won't fetch is that most of the time the dog will happily chase after the ball. Many will pick up the ball and some will even bring the ball part or most of the way back to the person throwing the ball. What, to me, is the missing piece is the dog doesn't understand the hold. I show in obedience and there's lots of retrieving . We teach hold as a seperate piece of the exercise. Once the dog understands that hold is part of fetch you have a way to communicate that chase, fetch and hold is what you want. There are different ways to teach the hold so you shoud be able to find a method that works for you and you dogs.

 

Happy Fetching!

 

Janet

[urge to herd]

Janet - Gibbs' hold on his boomerang is awesome. His hold on the ball - not so much. I may work on that as a totally different exercise - using different objects as well.

 

We are progressing! he brings the ball to within 4-5' of me much of the time now. I'm careful with where I stand and try to angle my body so that I'm not facing him dead on. And I only throw the ball maybe a half dozen times before I quit.

 

He seems very much context dependent - fetching inside the house is good. Fetching outside the house - why? My other b collies were each quirky in their own ways, but Gibbs is trotting out some new ones for me.

 

Life is never dull. Thanks to all for their insights and different ideas. It is all very helpful, and I'm tucking every idea away for possible future use.

 

 

Ruth and SuperGibbs

[Casey12]

Some good ideas here! I've been having some issues of my own with fetching. My 6 month old, Rye, is generally a good fetcher...but she has started to develop a bad habit of veering off to the side in the last 10 or 15 feet of her return to chew or play with the ball, frisbee, boomerang. This is how I've been correcting it, maybe it will work for Gibbs:

 

First off, I think that getting them riled up immediately before a fetch is a good thing. It's probably the only time I intentionally get Rye to 100% on the excitement level. I don't do this every single time, but fetching is supposed to be FUN, right? Expect to get a little rowdy behaviour out of this at first, but I think showing excitement will give you something to work with. I believe that doing this is what makes Rye bring the ball to me when I ignore her; she wants to be excited and to chase and she's learning that it takes a return on her part to perpetuate the game.

 

When she picks the ball up and starts the return I re-assure the behavior with a single "thata girl" and refrain from saying "good girl" because the task is not yet completed.

 

If she brings it back to me directly (she always releases it at my feet) I praise the behavior with an enthusiastic "good girl" and a quick chest rub or a treat. I do this while leaving the ball on the ground where she dropped it so as to keep her focused on the praise she is receiving instead of another fetch being the reward.

 

If she veers off to the side, I will break eye contact while turning my back to her and say "bring it here" once. She will usually bring the ball and drop it between my legs when I do this, to which I will say good girl, without the hoopla of a direct return.

 

If she drops it too far, I will say "I can't reach it" and make her pick it up and bring it closer. If she doesn't do this I will turn my back and ignore her.

 

I've quit fetching early with her a few times because she waited too long to bring it back, but we seem to be headed in a positive direction. Keeping things fun is probably the most important aspect for Rye. I will alternate between a ball and a boomerang or frisbee during most sessions and occasionally I will throw a "fly ball" to which she will hold her breath so she can hear immediately when the ball hits the ground.

 

*Sidenote: At one point I would play fetch with 2 toys at once. When she would bring the ball back, I would throw another object to get her to release the ball and have a sort of rapid fire game of fetch. Although this was effective in giving her a workout, I quit doing this because I was rewarding a fetch with another fetch and all this was teaching her to do was to chase and catch.

 

Every dog is different though and this is only what has been working for me.

 

[medic09]

I know this thread is about Gibbs, but I'll report an advance with Golan because maybe it is useful. I mentioned above that as Golan would come back towards me with the ball, I urge him on verbally and also waiving him in.

 

Today I introduced a new ball in the back yard. We've been using a big Chuckit ball, a tennis ball; and this evening I took out a tennis ball-sized rubber ball that bounces a lot more on our dirt-and-weed yard. Golan really took to it. I move around the yard a bit to alter the context so that he'll fetch regardless of where I stand. We only require that bring the ball very close, but not to hand.

 

At one point, he dropped the ball about 6 ft/almost 2m in front of me. I don't accept that anymore. "Nope". He stands over the ball. "Bring it in". He stands over the ball. "Bring it in" and I waive him in as I do when he is fetching. He picks up the ball and moves towards me. "Yes!", I mark the move - and Golan drops the ball still about 5 ft away. "Nope". He hesitates. "Bring it in" and I waive him in, and he picks up the ball again and brings it to my feet. "Yes!" and I act like an idiot (thank you, Kevin George). I was pleased with his correction.

 

Also, I threw him a high fly in the fading light, and Golan got under it like an outfielder and caught it. First time he's done that, and he retrieved it to near my feet. Next I threw a short, gentle line drive (but from back behind a tree and an open structure/frame in the yard) and he got in front like a shortstop and caught it! We ended on that note for the night.

 

The breakthrough, of course, was his willingness to correct his poor fetch and bring it to my feet. Every fetch I encourage him with a repeated hand signal, and I think for him that makes a difference.

 

Once he got the idea that we're waiting for him to fetch the ball closer (by me or my wife moving off to the side where he could see us wait for a better fetch, but not going into the house) he has progressed pretty rapidly to a more reliable game of fetch in the yard. We still haven't been able to move that to an open space away from the house, but as I see his interest and progression; I'm quite sure that will come soon enough.

[Nesji]

Hi, thanks for the really helpful discussion. My 10 week old bc pup isn’t a fetcher - I have been baffled why. However all your collective insights helped. Squeaky ball to the rescue as I don’t want to fetch the blinking ball myself. And I’ve put the treats away. Successful  fetching this afternoon (result), but I’ve a lot to learn about getting the message across  to do here. Need to find a book to read on the back step now, and my neighbours think I’ve finally flipped . Sula’s tail was windmilling with delight, do she must have enjoyed herself, not sure I can achieve tug with the bell tho (she’s a Mini shark)