Ohio Breeders

[buckeyemanohio]

I am looking for a good border collie breeder in Ohio. I am looking to finally get my first border collie puppy. If anyone knows of a good affordable, reliable, breeder in Ohio please let me know.

 

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!

[Sue R]

First, since you've posted before, I assume you've read the "read this first" and are familiar with the philosophy of this board, which is that the dogs should be bred for working ability and not for other reasons (color, pet market, sports, etc.). That said, what is your plan for your future pup? What do you intend to do with him/her? Farm work with livestock? Sheepdog trials? Performance sports? Active companion? Family pet? There is absolutely nothing *wrong* with any of these purposes but knowing what you hope to do with your pup/dog would help people here steer you in the right direction, whether it's to a breeder of working dogs who might be having a litter in the near future, someone who has a nice youngster that won't make the cut as a working dog but would make a fine active companion or performance dog, or to a rescue group that might have dogs or pups that would be suitable for a variety of futures.

 

So, more information, please?

[buckeyemanohio]

Well Sue I am looking for a family dog or maybe what you consider an "active companion" (never heard that before). I have read about border collies for years and have been on here for a little bit of time. I am finally ready and prepared to finally have a border collie. I do live on a very small farm with one horse, 10 chickens, 4 cats, and two dogs. However, my intent is not to have the dog for any sort of farm work unless I can teach it to clean out our stall. I do however want to train my dog to do many different "chores" or maybe I should say obedience. My future plans would actually be to train my bc to chase geese so that I could actually do it as a small business. There are many properties and companies around here who have major problems with geese and there isn't a company around me that actually do that. I do know of a company that is within a few miles of me but that wouldn't be much of a competition for me since they live so far away and I have many connections around me.

 

So hopefully I have answered your question. I don't just want a dog to just lay around I want a dog that I tell it to do several commands and it will listen. So you tell me, what kind of dog am I looking for?

 

Thanks for your help!!!

[buckeyemanohio]

Sue,

 

I don't see the "read this first" you speak of

[Gideon's girl]

If you go up to the top and click on BC Boards, list of different forums will pop up, then click on any forum and it will be at the top of the page..

[buckeyemanohio]

Yea, never read that before but it all makes sense. thanks!

 

Ok, so I'm guessing nobody knows of a good breeder here in Ohio.

 

I will search online.

 

Thanks anyways! I'm sure I will be back on sometime soon to get advice. This forum is always full of such great advice with people that have lots of experience.

[Sue R]

I mentioned the "read this first" because it will tell you that the philosophy of these boards is that Border Collies should be bred for the work (stock work), and that explains why any breeder that most anyone here would recommend is *not* going to be a breeder of show dogs, sport dogs, or pet dogs, or a large-scale breeder or a backyard breeder.

 

If I were looking for a pet (an "active companion" is just what it sounds like, a companion for an active lifestyle and not really just a dog to lounge on the couch, so to speak), the first place I'd look into would be a reputable rescue. In Ohio, one rescue you might consider is Buckeye BCR (BCR is "Border Collie Rescue").

 

A puppy is always a gamble to one degree or another. A rescue that has been fostered and evaluated is often a good choice because you have an animal with (usually) a little age on it but with some known qualities. Good with kids? Good with cats? Good with other animals? Shy? Outgoing? You get the picture.

 

Another good choice might be a young dog from a reputable working breeder who has just not got what it takes to be a potential farm or trial dog, but who has everything it might need to be that perfect companion. Again, it's oftentimes more of a "known quantity" than a pup would be.

 

And then a pup from a reputable working breeder would be a good choice but most of the better breeders don't produce many litters and most if not all of their pups are spoken for in advance. But a good breeder like that might be able to point you in the direction of someone less well known who is having a nicely-bred litter in the near future, and who might be a good source for a pup.

 

Bruce and Linda Fogt are located near Sydney OH. Lyle Lad is located in southern Ohio, I think. Both would be people I'd consider contacting and while neither might be likely to have any unspoken-for pups (if they have a litter at all currently or soon), both might be able to refer you on to someone who might, and who might be a good choice. If you'd be looking as far afield as Kentucky or Michigan, there would be other people who might be able to help you. I know several in Kentucky whom you might try and contact.

 

Again, I'd suggest you consider a rescue dog (they come in all the age ranges) first, considering your plans. Very best wishes!

[Sue R]

I'd be really careful doing an internet search because most poor quality breeders advertise freely on the internet (some using things like "Puppyfind" and other totally red-flag sites). Most really good breeders don't advertise on the internet because they don't have to - they can find suitable placings for their pups by word of mouth or because people come to them, and they don't have to "market" their pups. Their reputation and the quality of their animals is enough to sell more pups than they produce, which usually is not very many.

[buckeyemanohio]

Thanks for your advice as usual! I totally understand what you are talking about with the working breed. But I certainly do not want a dog with "some age". I want a puppy that I can train from the beginning to learn all the basic commands from me and nobody else. I want this dog to obey my every command and that starts from day one. I don't want a dog who has already acquired bad habits or who has learned commands from someone else. I don't want a dog whom I don't know what idiosyncrasies or quirks they may have. I don't want a dog who I have no clue may be afraid of men, or cats, or strangers, or any other "quirks" a dog may have. I want a puppy whom I can shape and mold into the dog I have always dreamed of. I want a border collie. Forgive me for not owning sheep or cattle where I will use my dog to herd them. Just because they are "working dogs" which I fully understand the philosophy, does not mean that you can't train that dog to "work" in other facets of life. I'm sure you are aware of the many amazing things that border collies can do besides herding animals. You actually don't know what I may eventually use my dog for, I may have my dog do search and rescue, or help with the elderly, or help the disabled, or many other jobs that would "work" the dog. I just want that opportunity to have that "amazing dog". And like I said in my earlier thread if you remember, I want to eventually have my border collie "work" for me in my goose chasing business. You may think that sounds strange but it is a very lucrative business around here where the geese are a major nuisance. So, of course I would not want a dog that is just going to be a nice dog to lay around and occasionally do some tricks. However, I felt the best approach would be to not jump right into chasing geese or training him immediately for this job and to actually "ease into" the life of border collie ownership. I have owned dogs all my life and love ALL animals. I love training them as well. I want that opportunity to finally own a border collie, the smartest dog in the canine world.

 

I kind of felt like I'm not welcome here. Does every single person on here use their dog to work for them herding animals? So is that the qualifications to be on this site If you own a "working dog" and not using him to herd animals as he was bred to do then you're not welcome on this site and you should not own a border collie?

 

I feel I should have the same opportunity as everyone else and I do not want a puppy mill breeder or a breeder who has no clue about border collies. I want a reputable breeder that will provide me with the best possible border collie. I will wait for that breeder if need be. I understand that the "good" breeders are in high demand as they should be. I will keep looking.

 

Thank you!

[Cass C]

I think you are completely misunderstanding what they are talking about when they say working dogs. They are saying you should only buy a puppy from working parents. Not that you have to work your dog. However, you also should not breed your dog if it is a companion or pet, as the philosophy of this board is that only proven working dogs should be bred. If you want a puppy from a working breeder (which is the ONLY kind supported by these boards) go to herding trials in your area and make contacts. Read the Looking for a Puppy sticky info on these boards to point you in the right direction.

 

On a note about puppies you should know that sometimes puppies have weird fears for no reason. My BC who I have had since she was 10 weeks and is now over a year has just decided she is afraid of cups/drinking glasses Not to mention agility tunnels, which are apparently evil. Why? You may be wondering? We have no idea, but she is. She hasn't had a negative experience with them, but she runs away from them now and will attack them for no reason. My grandma adopted a one year old poodle mix that was found as a stray and honestly she has trained just as easily as the puppies we've gotten. She loves my grandma more than any of the other poodles in the house, who were all purchased as puppies. I understand not wanting an older rescue and that's fine, but your reasons are flawed and sound more defensive than just being honest. I wanted a puppy, because I wanted to compete in agility and the younger they start the better, but my golden BC was a shelter puppy and she is one of the best dogs I've ever owned.

 

Even if you are mad at the people on these boards because you feel attacked I urge you to only get your dog from working parents, and never from a dog that is AKC registered, a sports breeder, or a pet breeder. As supporting those breeders who are not focused on the original breed standards but what they think the BC should be. If you want an authentic BC you will need to get one from working parents NOT working lines.

[GentleLake]

I don't want a dog who has already acquired bad habits or who has learned commands from someone else. I don't want a dog whom I don't know what idiosyncrasies or quirks they may have. I don't want a dog who I have no clue may be afraid of men, or cats, or strangers, or any other "quirks" a dog may have.

 

Let me clue you in on something . . . you can very easily get a dog who has all of the traits you don't want if you start with a puppy! There's absolutely no guarantee in the world that your puppy, especially your border collie puppy, won't disobey you, be fearful or have quirks. It comes with the territory; "idiosyncracy" is the breed's middle name.

 

And your puppy may not bond with you instantly, either. There was just a thread recently about this.

 

Another thing you should know is that not all adult rescues come with baggage or are difficult. As someone who's moved away from buying dogs to rescuing dogs I actually find that inference insulting and offensive. Some of the most amazing dogs have been adopted as adult rescues. Some have had little or no training, others are excellently trained and ended up in rescue through no fault of behavior or health; people's circumstances change, they become ill or die, etc. and the the dogs end up in rescue (the lucky ones, at least) through no fault of theirs. I can understand someone's desire to get a puppy, but the reasoning you offer for a puppy and against a rescue is hugely flawed. Rescues usually bond completely and often quickly. They're often easier to train simply because they've already outgrown the difficult puppy phases. By all means get a puppy if that's what you want, but there's no need to malign perfectly good rescues in defense of that decision. Btw, especially if you're willing to watch and wait, rescues sometimes get puppies, too.

 

One of my two absolutely best dogs of all time is a border collie who I adopted when he was about 1 1/2. He had some "difficulties" as a result of his experience of being a stray; he had to overcome some wariness and regain his confidence. But he was incredibly easy to train and was working as a therapy dog 6 months after I adopted him, a mere 7 months after he was picked up as a stray! You won't find many puppies ready to do that in that length of time.

 

You weren't being dissed because people wanted to have an idea of what you want to do with your dog. I'd hazard that the majority of people here don't have livestock or work their dogs on them (though there are quite a few who do) and do other things with their dogs instead. There are people who work their dogs on various kinds of livestock, some who compete in other dog sports, some who do SAR or therapy work or have service dogs and some whose dogs are "just" valued members of their families (most of these categories, especially the last, are not mutually exclusive). So no one's trying to take you down a peg because you don't have a flock of sheep you want the dog to work.

 

It is helpful, though, for people coming here asking for breeder referrals first to understand what this Board's philosophy is (for one thing so you understand that people here aren't going to refer you to an ACK or sport or color/pet breeder whose dogs haven't proven themselves on livestock, which we won't do) and also because some breeders produce dogs with different characteristics that may or may not be what you'd be looking for. Your initial post didn't provide us with any of that relevant information. People come here all the time who don't have any border collie experience and are either looking to get one or worse, have gotten one and are having problems they desperately need help with because they didn't understand what they were getting themselves into. We ask questions in order to get a clearer picture so as to help people avoid those pitfalls.

 

This is actually a pretty friendly and welcoming group. So, if you'd care to step back and not be quite so quick to take offense, perhaps if someone knows of a breeder they'll tell you. But if you keep your defensive hackles raised I'm gonna guess they'll be less likely to share that information. Just sayin' . . .

[Maralynn]

This board is slow to give out breeder recommendations and quick to suggest rescue. It's not a slight against anyone, it's just the nature of the board.

 

I think part of it is that the culture of the working Border Collie world is not a "kennel of breeding dogs" culture rather it's more if a "litter here, litter there" culture. So sending out emails to anyone involved in working Border Collies in your area and trying to make personal contacts at trials seems to be the best way to make those contacts. Because it tends to be a someone knows someone who is planning a nice litter instead of a "go here for your next pup" thing.

 

Also, expanding your search to surrounding states would be helpful. Out of 4 Border Collies, only one came from my home state. I traveled to surrounding states for the others (one rescue, one second hand from a breeder and one pup from a breeder....)

[buckeyemanohio]

Cass, to reply to you I don't feel my reasons for getting a good sound, intelligent, obedient, working dog is a "flawed" as you state. Also, I am being completely honest with everything I post. I don't feel I am being dishonest in any way. Of course I felt judged and may have sounded defensive but I felt I was posting a completely harmless post questioning the help of the many people on here who have much more experience than I do. If you really knew me you would know that I am one of the most honest people you would meet, sometimes to a fault I guess. Anyways, Sue made a good point in saying that I should give more info. I apologize for not revealing enough info to begin with. Perhaps this wouldn't have gotten so blown out of proportion. I was just looking for help.

 

Gentle Lake: I do take offense and want to reply defensively for someone saying "let me clue you in". I apologize if you felt insulted and and were offended. Just because that is the way I feel about getting an older dog doesn't mean I look down upon others who do so. I agree with you that often times rescue dogs tend to be more loving than other dogs. I feel they know they are being rescued from whatever situation they may or may not have been in and they are forever grateful. I have heard MANY good results from many different people on rescue dogs of many different breeds. I agree also that a PUPPY could have some flaws. But that would be up to me to find out and that is the fun for me to find out. No dog is perfect and most dogs will have their own idiosyncrasies but that is something I want to experience for myself. Those quirks from an older dog were discovered by someone else. Perhaps I am being selfish and wanting the experience all for myself and who knows I may actually go the route of a rescue dog because I love animals so much I would love to provide an awesome home for a dog in need. I do however take offense when someone tells be to "step back" or "just sayin". I never said ANYTHING mean or offensive to anyone. All I want is advice like the "nice" and good advice MARALYNN provided. Thank you Maralynn for your advice.

 

I am not here to "start trouble". I apologize if I offended anyone it certainly was not my intention. I just rely on everyone here because I feel they are the experts. That is why I come here and plan to continue coming here for nice, kind, and helpful advice.

 

Thank you to all.

[jvw]

Buckeyemanohio, good on you for sticking around. No one means to be so harsh. Just a very protective group here.

 

Good luck in your search.

[Tess's Girl]

Bruce and Linda Fogt are located near Sydney OH. Lyle Lad is located in southern Ohio, I think. Both would be people I'd consider contacting and while neither might be likely to have any unspoken-for pups (if they have a litter at all currently or soon), both might be able to refer you on to someone who might, and who might be a good choice. If you'd be looking as far afield as Kentucky or Michigan, there would be other people who might be able to help you. I know several in Kentucky whom you might try and contact.

 

Sue has given you some excellent recommendations for Ohio. There are many knowledgeable people on this board who have spent most of their lives with Border Collies. Many of them have stock, many of them do not.

 

I would also recommend that you check out a couple of your local stockdog trials. They are a fantastic way to network with the people in your area, find out about litters, and the best part: see this beautiful breed in action.

 

I like that you are willing to wait. I heard so often from people who see a pretty of a dog and they decide that they want that dog and they want it now, no matter if the breed or the dog is an actually a good fit from them. Good luck with your search and you're new puppy whenever you find it.

[GentleLake]

My saying things like "let me clue you in" (and ended the sentence with !) and "just sayin'" (at the end of telling you what a friendly group this is) were intended to lighten things up a little, and the "step back" was kinda like "take a breath" or "distance yourself from the situation a moment and rethink the reaction." I say things like this all the time when I'm speaking, but tone of voice and facial expression do a lot I guess to inform it. And if I'm carping I don't tend to write in the vernacular; I'll be more formal.

 

I understand that text communications can be read entirely differently than what the writers intend, especially when the reader's reading things they really don't want to hear. Maybe I should've used a lot of emoticons, but I felt what I was writing was too important to be trivialized.

 

And if you'll reread what I wrote, I said "I can understand someone's desire to get a puppy," so I wasn't being critical of your choice. Rather, I was pointing out that the reasons you offered for that choice were flawed and why. If you want the experience of raising a puppy, that's cool. But that's not what you said the first time around.

 

Somewhere along the line you seem to have been insulted . . . perhaps because we didn't all jump right in and give you a list of breeders in Ohio? But it seems to have set you up to be receiving the replies you are getting defensively and striking back. I don't know what to do about that other than to add a bunch of emoticons.

 

Does that help?

[rufftie]

"I want a puppy that I can train from the beginning to learn all the basic commands from me and nobody else. I want this dog to obey my every command and that starts from day one. I don't want a dog who has already acquired bad habits or who has learned commands from someone else. I don't want a dog whom I don't know what idiosyncrasies or quirks they may have. I don't want a dog who I have no clue may be afraid of men, or cats, or strangers, or any other "quirks" a dog may have. I want a puppy whom I can shape and mold into the dog I have always dreamed of."

 

i have a feeling we'll be seeing a great dog in ohio rescue next year.

[buckeyemanohio]

rufftie are you saying I'm not going to be able to handle getting a border collie and that I will have to hand my dog over to a border collie rescue?? If that is what you are saying, wow! Is that not offensive!?? Do you know who I am? Do you know how many dogs I have trained in my life? True, I have never had a border collie. But do you know me? Do you think I am a quitter? I most certainly am not. I am someone who is going to love this dog no matter what and most certainly would not give up on a dog. Are you speaking from experience? You certainly do not know me. My dogs are considered family members and I certainly don't get rid of a family member if things aren't going right. When you say "i have a feeling we'll be seeing a great dog in Ohio rescue next year." That is extremely offensive, as if I won't be able to handle it. There are sooooo many nice people on here and I don't feel that was being very nice.

Gentle Lake I agree text messages can be translated much differently than someone talking face to face. My choice is not flawed. It is a personal choice I have and yes, it is cool if I want to get a puppy.

There have been many nice responses on here and some responses I have received privately have been extremely nice. Some people just have a negative and condescending way of replying.

 

Thanks again for all the nice responses! I'm giving up on this group!

[GentleLake]

Buckeyemanohio, please read what I wrote. I did. not. say your choice to get a puppy was flawed! Not in my first or my second response to you.

 

I said the original reasons you presented for that choice over a rescue were flawed. They are, and there's a huge difference between the two things.

[buckeyemanohio]

A choice is personal. It is my choice so it can't be "flawed". It may not be what you prefer to hear but it is my choice and how I feel.

[CptJack]

Okay, the rationalizations you made for your choice are illogical and not actually factual or, for that matter, rational. You can DO whatever you want, for any reason up to and including 'because I want to', but that doesn't make the justifications you used true. In fact, they're pretty patently just... not true. As in wrong. Stick with "I want to" and no one can argue with you.

Can you handle a BC? Probably. I don't think they'll be too much for you. I don't think you'll get the outcome you want, though, because I suspect you'll be too much for the BC.

 

If you expect any dog to obey your every command, you're in for a really rude awakening. A *really* rude one. Even if it's a border collie and even if you raise it from a puppy. NOT. EVEN. CLOSE.

 

Furthermore BC tend to be soft dogs, easily shut down and with a lot of sensitivity to pressure and take quite a bit of maturity (as in years) to be able to handle it well. It's easy and common for them to be turned into fearful, reactive, and unstable dogs with harsh handling. "My word is law" and attitudes and a BC are NOT going to mesh well.

[Maralynn]

Reading through this thread I'm kinda guessing that the op is over rationalizing their choice of a pup. I kind of doubt they mean all that but felt that they needed a strong comeback to the idea of getting a well bred pup over a rescue to prove why they *need* a pup. I've seen it happen before. We need to feel/present ourselves as worthy so excitement gets to best of us. The truth of the matter is very few of us actually *need* a pup. But there is absolutely nothing wrong with getting a well bred pup if we choose to due to preference or our personal situation. So nothing needs proving

 

That said, I too was a bit taken back by the comments that CaptnJack highlighted. I ended up with a super mature "perfect" pup and even he isn't that good! My rescue I got at 3 y/o better fits the description given. Raising your own does provide some advantages (and disadvantages...) but they certainly don't automatically work out like that.

 

Hopefully the op will clarify their expectations a bit.

[borasaurus]

I just wanted to say I got Kieran from a rescue when he was two and he was pretty much a blank slate. All he had was potty and some crate training. He didn't even have a reliable sit. Every command he knows, I taught it. Even "potty" as a command was something I taught him. And people are always shocked by all the things he knows now. I understand if you don't want a rescue dog, but there are a lot of overgeneralizations in your post that rule out fantastic rescue dogs. If anything, getting a puppy is way more of a crapshoot. Some of the most rascally dogs I know were raised from puppyhood (and by dog trainers, no less). There is nothing wrong with either route, though, and I hope you find what you're looking for.

[mum24dog]

When you get a pup it should be with hope not expectation of what it will become. They are not robots programmable to human will; they are individuals just as humans are.

 

If you are expecting a dog that will obey your every command from the start, or ever, then I would suggest that the decision to get a dog should be reviewed as it is bound to lead to disappointment whatever the breed.

 

The best human dog relationships are built gradually out of mutually respect and understanding rather than an approach of "I say, you do". Clear communication is one thing, expecting unquestioning obedience every time quite another.

[buckeyemanohio]

oh my! I just read my last post I meant to say I am NOT giving up on this group!!

 

Thanks for all the nice responses.