Vaccinate for Lepto or not?

[Tommy Coyote]

Do you vaccinate for Lepto?

 

I was just talking to both of my vets this morning about this. Tommy has auto immune disease (polyarthritis) so I don't want to do anything to stress her immune system unnecessarily.

 

Vet said that Lepto is making a comeback everywhere. And its also here in KC. And its a serious disease. Wild populations spread it around. Dogs can pick it up just from urine of wild animals - raccoons, possums, rats - just about any wild animals can spread the infection. And we have tons of raccoons and possums around here. Also lots of foxes, squirrels, rabbits.

 

My regular vet - who really is a good vet - took Lepto out of his shots because so many dogs were having adverse reactions to it. He and his wife went to a seminar about six months ago and basically were told that its six of one or six of the other. Lepto is coming back but the reactions to the shots are more of a threat than the disease.

 

Tommy's vet - who is from another much bigger clinic - said that they have seen one actual documented case of Lepto at their clinic. And they see hundreds of dogs a year there.

 

To make this more complicated I just read that this new Lepto outbreak may be a form that the old Lepto shots don't protect against. So maybe getting the shots wouldn't do any good anyway.

 

I also read that some shots are good for a very long time but that isn't true for bacteria-dirivative vaccines like bordatella and lyme and lepto. Some of those shots are not even good for a whole 12 months.

 

So what to do?

[G. Festerling]

I am no vet. But I have lost a dog to lepto many years ago.

My vet at the time did not inform me that the trend towards not vaccinating for lepto had led to a policy of not giving it. Without notifying the clients. I had no clue at the time.

But what made this bad was that this was a dog that went to work with me and basically we spend all day in the barn. He was also my horsevet and was totally aware of this.

Watching her suffer was terrible.

A friend of mine who does own a clinic has seen a a rise of lepto over the last few months.

I also currently own a dog with autoimmune issues and we are very careful with vaccines.

Lepto however is one I do not like to gamble on due to my lifestyle.

Splitting the vaccines seems to help.

And yes, I acknowledge that there are some reactions in dogs to the vaccine.

[Anda]

I know Ouzo got the lepto vaccine at least once - not sure if last year or two years ago. He didn't have any adverse reaction. Since there's wild life all around us - from coyotes who are outside our apartment from midnight till 5 AM in the morning - my husband keeps running into them almost daily when he takes Ouzo out at night or early morning - racoons, deer, geese, rabits, ducks, etc - plus we take our dog swimming in lakes almost every week when it gets warm, the vet reccomanded we give the vaccine. So we did. And nothing bad happened. If they give it again this year - we're probably due in a month or two, I will let them administer it.

[Debbie Meier]

Lepto however is one I do not like to gamble on due to my lifestyle

 

I think the above statement is very important. Each persons lifestyle changes the exposure chances of your dog, not only for Lepto but any disease.

 

TC, I would research where the increased risks lie, see what I can do to reduce the risk, such as making sure that my home environment does not invite the carriers of Lepto into it and also reduce exposure by not taking my dog into environments that promote Lepto. If I can't do that then I would strongly consider the vaccine. It is possible that your lifestyle greatly reduces your dogs risks making the risk of a reaction far higher in comparison.

 

With Tommy having an auto immune disorder, environment and exposure should be considered on all counts.

 

When we lived in Wisconsin the chances of heartworm was huge, especially when we went to the Kettle Moraine State Forest. I spoke to my vets and found that dogs in and around the forest had a way higher rate of heartworm diagnosis then dogs left in town, same with Lymes Disease and other tick borne diseases. So, either we don't go camping and horseback riding out in the forest with the dogs or we make sure they are up to date on preventative and that our camp site is well cleared of tall grass. We would even use an area treatment on/around our campsite and not let the dogs go out into the untreated areas. Yeah it was a pain, but way better then the alternative.

 

Just my thoughts...

 

Deb

[Mark Billadeau]

We are going to annual vaccinations with the newer recombinant lepto vaccine (4 serovars); I feel our dogs' risk from exposure is greater than the risk of adverse reactions from the newer lepto vaccine. For the viral vaccines we're on a 3 year schedule. Rabies is set by law (3 years in MD).

 

Mark

[debp]

Recently discussed with my vet that I would be doing my own vaccines for my 7, except for Rabies of course. She agreed that with us having so many dogs it made sense. I asked her thoughts on going to a 3 year schedule for vaccines and she said that while there is debate in the vet community about it, she didn't see an issue for our dogs EXCEPT she strongly suggested that I still give Lepto yearly. This was because we live in the country and we occasionally take our dogs to trials and this vaccine needs to be given 1x year. She said that if we lived in the city she wouldn't be concerned. I'm taking her advice.

[IPSY]

Recently discussed with my vet that I would be doing my own vaccines for my 7, except for Rabies of course. She agreed that with us having so many dogs it made sense. I asked her thoughts on going to a 3 year schedule for vaccines and she said that while there is debate in the vet community about it, she didn't see an issue for our dogs EXCEPT she strongly suggested that I still give Lepto yearly. This was because we live in the country and we occasionally take our dogs to trials and this vaccine needs to be given 1x year. She said that if we lived in the city she wouldn't be concerned. I'm taking her advice.

 

We give our own vaccines (except rabies) to our own dogs for years . We also have been giving them every 3 years.

I have reservations about vaccines but that is another story.

Lepto , lyme vaccines need to be given yearly. If its the dogs first time getting the vaccine , they need to be boostered the first year , then once yearly after that. We use advantix for ticks and fleas , mosquitos and dont have a real problem where we are with ticks so I dont give lyme , but we do give lepto. A dog who lived down the road died from lepto (wasnt vaccinated) . A horrible way for the poor thing to go . Im very adamant about giving the lepto vaccine here.

Once my dogs reach 10 years of age , I titer them . No vaccines anymore , only rabies is needed. My Mom's dogs get no vaccines anymore , both over 13 years, maltese and a pug .

BUT , all my dogs get yearly checkups , blood profiles . I try to be as vigilant as I can when it comes to their health .

Just what we do with our dogs

[Mark Billadeau]

Here are some more recent publications on lepto

 

Prevalence of serum antibodies against six Leptospira serovars in healthy dogs Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association June 1, 2007, Vol. 230, No. 11, Pages 1657-1664

 

Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Among healthy dogs from the lower peninsula of Michigan, > 20% have antibodies against leptospiral serovars historically considered uncommon but more recently incriminated as causing clinical canine leptospirosis. Wildlife and livestock may be of increasing importance as reservoirs for canine leptospirosis as urbanization continues to occur. Expanded vaccination strategies may partially mitigate these trends

 

Canine Leptospirosis, United States, 2002–2004 CDC

 

Figure 1. Percentage of positive microscopic agglutination tests by Leptospira serovar, using 3 different cutoff titers for 23,005 canine sera from 2002–2004. Serovars Canicola and Icterohaemorrhagiae have been used in canine bacterins for leptospirosis during the study period. Ictero., Icterohaemorrhagiae; Autumn., Autumnalis; Bratisl., Bratislava; Grippo., Grippotyphosa.

 

Figure 2. Canine leptospirosis microscopic agglutination test results shown as the percentage positive and standard error, by state and year from 2002–2004. A test was considered positive if the titer for any serovar was >400 for Autumnalis, Bratislava, Canicola, Grippotyphosa, Icterohaemorrhagiae, Pomona, or Hardjo serovars.

 

Increase in seroprevalence of canine leptospirosis and its risk factors, Ontario 1998–2006

 

Past research regarding risk factors for canine leptospirosis have resulted in varying conclusions. Ward et al (6) found that dogs of the herding, working, and gun-dog breed classes, as well as intact males, were significantly more likely to have leptospirosis than other dogs. These results differ markedly from the present study, which did not identify these as risk factors, and which found, for the study period before 2001, that the sporting breed class was less likely to have leptospirosis. The reason for this time-dependent breed risk is unclear. Although previous research in the USA suggested that large working and hunting dogs were at greater risk for leptospirosis presumably because they spend much of their time outdoors and thus are more exposed to leptospires (10,16,32), the current study suggests that all breed types (except sporting dogs) are at equal risk. This may reflect the greater likelihood of exposure in urban environments. Furthermore the present study could not confirm a predisposition based on gender classification. Although other studies have found various age effects, including an increased risk in older dogs, (16) or dogs aged < 1 y and/or > 8 y (1), this study did not identify age as a risk factor when age was evaluated as a continuous variable or as a categorical variable. Age was therefore left as a categorical variable for consistency with previous studies. In summary, with one apparently minor exception, dogs in Ontario appear to be at risk to leptospirosis independent of breed type, age, or gender.

 

Influence of Infecting Serogroup on Clinical Features of Leptospirosis in Dogs J Vet Intern Med 2006;20:489–494

 

The serogroups that were most commonly suspected to have caused clinical disease from 1996 to 2002 at 2 large referral centers in New York State were Grippotyphosa and Pomona. This finding appears to be unchanged from a previous study at Cornell University that evaluated occurrences between 1980 and 1995.12 L. grippotyphosa also was the most common serovar identified in a study that evaluated occurrences in Illinois between 1996 and 2001.27 In that study, the 2nd most common serovar was L. bratislava. A study from California that evaluated dogs from 1990 to 1998 identified L. pomona as the most common serovar, with L. bratislava the 2nd most common.8 These discordant results during similar time periods suggest regional differences in the importance of different serovars. Unlike previous studies, we identified several suspected

Autumnalis cases in the northeastern United States. Autumnalis was the 3rd most common serogroup identified in our study. This number likely underestimates the true prevalence of this serogroup because only dogs seen at Cornell University from 2000 to 2001 were evaluated for it.

[juliepoudrier]

I don't vaccinate for lepto, nor Lyme (don't know if there's a new and improved vaccine for the latter, though I imagine there might be, but the early vaccines often did more harm than good). I personally decided that the benefits didn't outweigh the risks. Maybe that decision will come back to bite me in the a$$ someday.... I have had one dog that we treated as if he had lepto though he was never definitively diagnosed. If I had a dog that was immune-compromised I would be very careful about giving any vaccines.

 

J.

[Pam Wolf]

TC, there is confirmed Lepto in the area. The rural areas are probably more of an issue than the city. Several of the vets I kno whave been giving their country living clients dogs the lepto vaccine while not giving it to the city living dogs. If Tommy is not going up to the lake for runs and is prety much in the city, exposure could be very low. Taking Tommy to work livestock, run in the woods or at the lake could increase risk.

[Eileen Stein]

Can't believe this thread is three years old now, but it really changed my thinking about vaccinating for lepto.

[IPSY]

I did hear that there is a newer Lepto vaccine in the works "Lepto5". Dont know too much about it yet.

Will post if I hear anything about this new vaccine.

[Ooky]

My vet has seen deaths from canine lepto in the past year. When she heard that Odin was going out to farms all over the area, both with me on work site visits and to do stockwork training, she *strongly* encouraged us to get the vaccine, which we did in October-November this last year (1st year shot plus the 1st year booster). I believe it was the recombinant vaccine, as it had 4 strains and she mentioned it was new -- although that is great info and I will ask specifically next time. They also never give the vaccine unless they believe there is likely to be a significant risk based on lifestyle. I was warned about adverse reactions and kept a close eye on him but honestly it was like he'd never even been vaccinated, even with the booster which is when the big reaction is supposed to show. He had a worse reaction to his rabies booster (given prior to this) - although admittedly his "bad" reaction looks like my flu shot reaction - tired for a day.

 

I hope he does not develop a bad reaction in subsequent years, as I am going to continue to give it unless there becomes a very clear reason not to. It seems worth the risk to me at this point, as lepto sounds like a disease you really don't want to mess around with.

[in2adventure]

I would talk with your vet and way the good and bad out. Maybe make a good list and bad list (pro & cons) of the shot. I think a lot of what people are saying about it being area dependent is a big thing. For example, my vet saw 12 cases of Lepto in Cody WY last summer. That's HUGE considering how big Cody is. I get both pups vaccinated for it. On the other hand, I NEVER use flea and tick meds because we don't have them, or the dog's exposure to them is so minimal it's not worth putting the chemicals on. My vet also believes in roating shots and not giving everything every year. He thinks it's over kill and says the dog's immunity is better that way.

 

But like everyone else said, way out the risks. You have more to think about with the auto immune thing factored in.

[Rave]

There's definitely been a resurgence of Lepto lately. A well-known agility dog in MD died from it earlier this year. Another agility dog who lives in SC got Lepto in VA and potentially exposed other dogs to it in Chapel Hill, NC. Caused a bit of a panic when that dog's owners were going to drive it and it's housemates cross-country to nationals, but luckily they opted to stay home at the last minute.

 

It doesn't matter where you live - city, suburbs or country - your dog can be at risk, especially in wet climates, which is pretty much all of the east this year. I had all mine vaccinnated (including the booster) earlier this year and none had any reaction. My vet said the newest formulations don't seem to cause as much reactions as the older Lepto vaccines.

 

Here's a helpful link for reading up on it: http://www.leptoinfo.com/

[Alaska]

Can't believe this thread is three years old now, but it really changed my thinking about vaccinating for lepto.

Me too. That story stuck with me, and as soon as I moved to an area where lepto was present and where my border collies have daily contact with livestock and wildlife, I started vaccinating for it (as local vets recommend).

 

On the other hand, my parents have a toy poodle who had a severe reaction to her first, and so far only, lepto vaccination. The dog has no contact with livestock, very little with wildlife, and never swims in water that could be contamined. Yet the kennel they have used and been happy with for years now insists that all dogs be current on lepto to stay there, which I find ludicrous. I strongly advised them to find a new kennel, and eventually they did.

[Alaska]

I did hear that there is a newer Lepto vaccine in the works "Lepto5". Dont know too much about it yet.

I don't think that's a valid rumor.

 

The "new" lepto vaccine (as of 2004) was Lepto Vax 4 from Fort Dodge. Pfizer has since bought Fort Dodge, discontinued Lepto Vax 4, and come out with a similar product called Vanguard L4. These are both what we've been calling individual vaccines, i.e. they only act on lepto strains.

 

Both Fort Dodge and Pfizer also packaged lepto in a combination vaccine. Pfizer's Vanguard Plus 5 L4 is a 5-way (DA2PP) vaccine with the 4 lepto serovars as well. I'm guessing that's the one you're thinking of.

 

Hopefully Mark will be along shortly to correct me if I got something wrong....

[Shetlander]

Lepto scares the stuffing out of me, but I've opted not to vaccinate. My Lhasa had a bad reaction to it years ago so that even the gung ho vet we were seeing said never again should he get the shot. I've seen other dogs have problems as well. The Sheltie is old and Quinn's first 2 1/2 years were spent with health problems. I'm sweating out his Rabies shot next week since he seems so sensitive to chemicals and even processed food. Fortunately, our lifestyle is such that the dogs shouldn't be at great risk from Lepto. These kinds of decisions can be so difficult.

[Tommy Coyote]

TC, there is confirmed Lepto in the area. The rural areas are probably more of an issue than the city. Several of the vets I kno whave been giving their country living clients dogs the lepto vaccine while not giving it to the city living dogs. If Tommy is not going up to the lake for runs and is prety much in the city, exposure could be very low. Taking Tommy to work livestock, run in the woods or at the lake could increase risk.

Tommy stays at home except for trips to the vet. I don't want her out and about with a compromised immune system. Her world is her back yard and the house.

 

I have seen raccoons and possums and foxes around the neighborhood. I have never seen them in the fenced backyard although I have seen them right on the outside of the fence.

 

We have to get her off the imuran before she can have any shots. It is just so hard to know what to do. The shots might hurt her but getting lepto would probably kill her. I'll probably trust her vet on this one. So far he has been great with her. She has gone from being really sick to being back to her normal little tornado self.

[Eileen Stein]

With your dog's auto-immune history and lack of exposure, I personally would not vaccinate. FWIW.

[IPSY]

Me too. That story stuck with me, and as soon as I moved to an area where lepto was present and where my border collies have daily contact with livestock and wildlife, I started vaccinating for it (as local vets recommend).

 

On the other hand, my parents have a toy poodle who had a severe reaction to her first, and so far only, lepto vaccination. The dog has no contact with livestock, very little with wildlife, and never swims in water that could be contamined. Yet the kennel they have used and been happy with for years now insists that all dogs be current on lepto to stay there, which I find ludicrous. I strongly advised them to find a new kennel, and eventually they did.

 

In my neck of the woods , NY , vets dont reccomend giving the small breeds the lepto vaccine because of the risk of adverse reactions. I would not only have your parents find another kennel , I would find another vet too.

[Tommy Coyote]

With your dog's auto-immune history and lack of exposure, I personally would not vaccinate. FWIW.

I'm kinda thinking that, too. It would be different if she was exposed to lots of things but she isn't.

[bc4ever]

I realize this is an old thread but please bear with me.

 

When Scooter had his hips x-rayed in January of this year, his vet mentioned the lepto vaccine and asked if I wanted her to give it to him while he was under for the x-rays. I declined, thinking that might be too much trauma, for want of a better word, on his system all at one time.

 

However, since we've had so much snow recently, I've noticed he's been sniffing out and trying to eat what looks like rabbit droppings in the back yard. I think we have a family living under the pine tree. A stern "leave it" works, but there are a few times, out of necessity, that I've let him out for a few minutes on his own (in a fenced yard) and I suspect he's enjoying the buffet until I come out to get him.

 

We have the garden variety critters here--squirrels, rabbits, chipmunks. We used to see deer and raccoons but since they tore out the woods behind us to build more houses, we rarely see them any more. We don't let him swim in any of the water around here and he's not exposed to a lot of other dogs. So, is he at risk for getting lepto and should I go ahead and have him vaccinated any way?

 

Pam

[trailrider]

My barn area is full of rabbits, and there are fresh droppings every morning. The dogs snack on them, but have never had the vaccinations for lepto. How sick do they usually get if it is not serious? Of course one caught a rat this morning. They just "own" them, but don`t seem to eat them.

[2 Devils]

My toy poodle had a severe reaction to vaccines a couple years back. We aren't sure which vaccine was the cause. I have since decided not to vaccinate him for anything except rabies since that is law. We do titres though. My borderjack has a compromised immune system per bloodwork (he has severe allergies) so we only titre him for things except this past year we did vaccinate him since his titres from the year before were low. The other 2 dogs are also titred at this point. The rescue vaccinated the dog we recently adopted but I will probably titre her next year.

 

I will have to decide on Lepto since we live in the country and we have lots of wildlife and the poop is too enticing. My poodle will not be vaccinated but I will have to discuss with the vet whether to vaccinate the borderjack because of his immune system. The acds and bc should not have issues if I decide to vaccinate them.

 

Decisions, decisions