Not sure if this needs to be corrected?

[Jescano]

Ok, so I give Jinx raw occasionally, and give him stuffed kongs, marrow bones/soup bones, etc. almost everyday.

 

So today I gave him a fresh soup bone, much more valuable to him than his old ones. I was sitting on the bed, he was in his pen right next to the bed happily chewing away. When I got up, not even going towards him, he started growling. I can easily call him off the bone to me and make him do tricks, and you can tell he really wants to go back and chew on his bone, and I can make him wait away from it if I want to get it. He will also bring me the bone and give it to me, though begrudgingly, if I ask for it. If I let him on the bed chewing something "dry"(bully stick, trachea, antler), he'll lay against me and chew it, or partially on me. And he'll chew on things with me holding it, that's how I keep him still while brushing him, and if we're just hanging out on the bed.

 

So what's up with the growling. I get that he doesn't want me to take it... but if he'll bring it to me and give it to me if I ask for it... Wouldn't he understand I'm not going to take it away forever?

 

 

[rushdoggie]

Perhaps his growling is telling you that he doesn't want to be bothered and to leave him to chew his bone in peace. In the absence of other resource guarding behaviors, I would think you have a huge issue.

 

I not punish him for growling, but I would start bringing him "better than your bone" treats over to him while he chews so that you approaching is a positive thing.

 

Hard to tell or advise without seeing it, though.

[Jescano]

In the absence of other resource guarding behaviors, I would think you have a huge issue.

So you think there is an issue?

 

I not punish him for growling, but I would start bringing him "better than your bone" treats over to him while he chews so that you approaching is a positive thing.

I don't punish him for growling, like I said, I can call him off his bone and tell him to wait if I want to get it. I can tell him to "leave it" and he will back up and sit down, I can call him to me and make him wait while I get it, or I can tell him to bring it to me and "give"(put the object in my hand).

 

And if I go and sit down in his pen while he's chewing a bone like that, more often than not he'll come and sit on my lap and chew, and sometimes growl. Even though he comes to me with it. He also growls when he plays with his tire by himself, or the soccer ball.

[TEC]

...When I got up, not even going towards him, he started growling. I can easily call him off the bone to me and make him do tricks, and you can tell he really wants to go back and chew on his bone, and I can make him wait away from it if I want to get it. He will also bring me the bone and give it to me, though begrudgingly, if I ask for it....

It's something that, IMO, should be corrected. I believe telling your dog to get-off the bed is perfect, and what I do when mine acts in a similar fashion. I think they understand they are being disciplined in that circumstance, as well as the reason for it. I make it clear that she is being told to get down, and leave me alone. I let her think about her transgression for a while, and then invite her back. There's always the wire crate if she persists. I think dogs are sometimes just being bratty, yet growling is an early warning sign of aggression, and something to deal with properly. That's your bed, not his. His growl could lead to a snap/bite, in a moment of inattention.

 

I believe that inviting the dog back allows it to try to regulate his/her own emotions. It's pretty easy to simply train a dog not to growl or, for example, bare its teeth, but you want to get to the underlying reason it is acting-out in that way. I try to desensitize my dog to the issue that is bothering her, rather than merely getting rid of, for instance, the growl. The theory I use is that a dog is more predicable, and therefore safer, when it is allowed to express feelings, so that you can make things secure for the short term, and then deal with the issue through desensitization or counter-conditioning. -- Best wishes, TEC

[Jescano]

It's something that, IMO, should be corrected. I believe telling your dog to get-off the bed is perfect, and what I do when mine acts in a similar fashion. I think they understand that they are being disciplined in that circumstance, as well as the reason for it. I make it clear that she is being told to temporarily get away, and leave me alone. I toss the chew toy to the floor, if she has one, and let her think about her transgression for a while, and then invite her back. There's always the wire crate if she persists. I think dogs are sometimes just being bratty, yet growling is an early sign of aggression, and something to deal with properly. That's your bed, not hers.

He doesn't growl at me when he's on the bed, even with something he's chewing. He'll pick things up and move away from me, but he doesn't growl.

 

 

I was sitting on the bed, he was in his pen right next to the bed happily chewing away. When I got up, not even going towards him, he started growling.

When I heard that, I called him to me and had him to some tricks for me then asked him to bring me his bone, which he did. It definitely wasn't a reprimand for growling, it was more of a redirection. Not sure if that was the right thing to do? He growled, so I took his attention away from the bone and made him do things for me.

 

I fully understand that having a dog that gives warnings first is better than a dog that goes straight to biting, because it's been corrected for growling.

 

We do the "trade game" which is why he's willing to give his bone to me, we also do it with things he's not supposed to pick up outside.

[Sue R]

I *think* Rushdoggie had a typo and meant that it was *not* a big issue in light of a lack of other resource guarding issues.

 

I consider growling to be a form of dog communication and as such, not something that needs to be extinguished but rather something that needs to be responded to in an appropriate manner. Of course, this depends on the situation. When one of my dogs growls, there is a reason - another dog is coming to close to the first who has a bone, for instance. For something like that, I am more likely to tell the "offending" (second) dog to "get away now" since he/she is invading the space of the first dog (with the bone). If I feel the first dog is being inappropriate, a firm "no" or "that will do" or even "knock it off" might be required and sufficient.

 

But, if a dog growls at me (without a very good reason, again considering a growl to be communication rather than aggression), I would be prepared to let the dog know that that is not acceptable.

 

In your case, it could be a simple matter of the dog being very focused on his treat and seeing your movement in his peripheral vision, and automatically responding (communicating) with a growl that he doesn't want to be disturbed or have an intruder in his space. What would interest me is what he did next - did he realize it was you and stop the growl immediately and maybe even wag his tail as a conciliatory gesture? Did he hold his bone and turn his head/body away from you? Did he continue to growl once it was obvious that he was aware it was you and not just an unexpected, nearby movement? What he did immediately after the growl would be an indication of what he truly was meaning by the growl, resource guarding or being caught unawares and being "apologetic".

 

If you are concerned that any object is something he will guard from you, you should probably call him off it (since he responds well to that), treat him well, and remove the object for at least a while. If he acts the same way the next time he has that object (or something similar), you may wish to only give him things that don't result in that response. This might be a case of a behavior that you have to "figure out" before you know just how to deal with it.

 

Maybe try it again and video so people here can see just what he's doing (and what you are doing)?

[Shetlander]

Yes, a video of the behavior would be helpful. I have zero tolerance for resource guarding because I have seen it escalate to dangerous levels. However, my dogs will playfully growl when they pick up toys, which I see as an invitation to play. I can't imagine that is the issue here, however.

 

I make a point of training drop and leave it with rewards of higher value food or toys so if I need to get something from my dog, I can do so easily. When I first get them, I will also add food to their bowl while they eat so they associate me interrupting their meal as a good thing. Otherwise, I make a point of not messing with my dogs when they eat so they don't worry about such things. If I thought my dog was truly resource guarding the bone I gave him as I walked past, probably I would stop giving him that particular treat. But we are back to my having zero tolerance for resource guarding, there being plenty of other treats I can give, and my dogs never growling at me about something like that.

[rushdoggie]

So you think there is an issue?

no, I'm sorry I typo'ed.

 

I meant to say I don't think there was a huge issue.

[rushdoggie]

. I can easily call him off the bone to me and make him do tricks, and you can tell he really wants to go back and chew on his bone, and I can make him wait away from it if I want to get it. He will also bring me the bone and give it to me, though begrudgingly, if I ask for it.

 

So maybe I am reading this wrong, but what I got from what you wrote is that when he has this fresh bone, you are calling him away and making him give it to you in a way that you don't do with other goodies. I interpreted that he might be getting tired of this and is asking you to let him alone to chew in peace.

 

I see this a lot with folks who want to make sure their dogs will give them things. They tend to go overboard with reaching in the bowl, taking things away etc. Asking for a trade or drop it and rewarding with a better treat once or twice will work better than constantly forcing him to relinquish the bone to the point where he feels stressed out.

 

If I mis-read your post and that's not the case, and he is simply feeling the need to be a guard-y over this better than average resource, then yes, by all means tell him no, but then still I don't think being overly punish-y or forcing a lot of drop its really helps a lot.

 

I would approach with a better treat so he associates your presence with a positive effect (she comes close and I get a bit of meat vs. she comes close and I have to play stupid games with the bone that I want) add some drop it and trades for better stuff (bit of raw meat maybe) but I'd also consider either letting him have his bone in a quiet area in peace or just not giving him that kind of bone.

[Jescano]

So maybe I am reading this wrong, but what I got from what you wrote is that when he has this fresh bone, you are calling him away and making him give it to you in a way that you don't do with other goodies. I interpreted that he might be getting tired of this and is asking you to let him alone to chew in peace.

I see this a lot with folks who want to make sure their dogs will give them things. They tend to go overboard with reaching in the bowl, taking things away etc. Asking for a trade or drop it and rewarding with a better treat once or twice will work better than constantly forcing him to relinquish the bone to the point where he feels stressed out.

I don't constantly ask him to give me things or call him off of things like that, I only did it because I heard the growl. He had been chewing on it for about 40 minutes already.

 

I would approach with a better treat so he associates your presence with a positive effect (she comes close and I get a bit of meat vs. she comes close and I have to play stupid games with the bone that I want) add some drop it and trades for better stuff (bit of raw meat maybe) but I'd also consider either letting him have his bone in a quiet area in peace or just not giving him that kind of bone.

I do give him very good treats when I go up to him and he has something like that.

 

 

In your case, it could be a simple matter of the dog being very focused on his treat and seeing your movement in his peripheral vision, and automatically responding (communicating) with a growl that he doesn't want to be disturbed or have an intruder in his space. What would interest me is what he did next - did he realize it was you and stop the growl immediately and maybe even wag his tail as a conciliatory gesture? Did he hold his bone and turn his head/body away from you? Did he continue to growl once it was obvious that he was aware it was you and not just an unexpected, nearby movement? What he did immediately after the growl would be an indication of what he truly was meaning by the growl, resource guarding or being caught unawares and being "apologetic".

I think this might be more the case, I hadn't thought about it that way. When I called him to me he had his head low and was very wiggly.

 

Tried to get a video today, but it was after we had played in the snow for a while and then trained/played/fed him his meal(haven't used a bowl to feed him since I first got him) He went down for a nap without even trying to chew on the bone I gave him, also losing a lot of teeth so his mouth is probably sore. Will try later for a video

[Sue R]

More than once, I have startled a dog in some degree or another, gotten a very natural response - and then had a dog that immediately "made up" with a sheepish grin or a wag or some other behavior that let me know that, "Hey, I didn't realize that was you! Sorry..."

[TEC]

He doesn't growl at me when he's on the bed, even with something he's chewing. He'll pick things up and move away from me, but he doesn't growl.

 

I misread/misunderstood the factual situation. Sorry 'bout that. I was helping my son use my slow cooker grill at 1:00 AM last night to start a beef brisquet. Evidently, for me, not a good time of the morning for reading.

 

I agree with Sue R that the growl could be a startle response, or any number of things other than something intentionally directed toward you. Keep a close eye on it to decide his intentions, but not for too long, as it may be something that should be dealt with.

 

Trade-ups when behaving well, as suggested above, sounds like a good way to desensitize your presence. -- Best wishes, TEC

[Sue R]

Brisket? When's it going to be ready? Yum...

[GentleLake]

I agree w/ Sue, especially after reading your response to her.

 

I, too, don't tolerate a dog growling at me over food or toys, but it is, as others have said, a normal communication. And at Jinx's age he may well be testing his limits.

 

I think we have to walk a fine line with growling at people over possessions. Of course we can't allow it in case it may escalate, but at the same time you don't want to completely suppress a growl as you can create a dog who doesn't verbally warn before biting.

 

What I'll do with a pup in that stage -- and it sounds like you've already been doing it -- is deliberately take things away from him, praise him generously when he does (and/or trade up) and give it back to him. If this was an odd startle response followed by appeasement behavior I'd acknowledge the appeasement behavior with something like, "Silly boy! What was that about?" You're not actually praising the appeasement behavior with a "good boy", but you're not ignoring it, either, and more importantly, not ignoring the entire incident, which might give him the idea that what just happened was OK. And, yes, they can tell the difference.

 

It sounds like you've done great work with him on releasing possessions easily, and this was probably nothing more than a slight bump in the road. Just be watchful now for repeats and deal with them as they come up. If he did it to me again, I'd start by taking the bone away from him, again, with a fairly lighthearted "That's my bone, not yours" and give it back to him in a few seconds. With the work you've already done, chances are that's as far as you'll ever have to go with it!