Quirky Registered/Full Names...AKC PAL Registration?

[Sue R]

I loved my Rhode Island Reds, too. And Barred Rocks.

[Gideon's girl]

My favs are Brahmas. They are the funniest chickens to watch. When they run, they drop their wings and ruffle up their panteloons, so they look like little old ladies hiking up their bloomers before running off. I LOL every time I see them.

[BC'S & Horses 4 Me]

It's a long-time custom. When working sheep or cattle, you want your dog to respond quickly to his/her name.

You also don't want to have two dogs with very similar names, to lessen confusion, when hearing is a problem, due to high winds, or whatever.

Many of us who own dogs that come from "fancy, imported stock", (lol), shorten long family breed names like, "Darkwinds Terbo Chase" to "Chase". (It also sounds way less pretentious).

[Sue R]

Welcome.

It's a long-time custom. When working sheep or cattle, you want your dog to respond quickly to his/her name.

You also don't want to have two dogs with very similar names, to lessen confusion, when hearing is a problem, due to high winds, or whatever.

Many of us who own dogs that come from "fancy, imported stock", (lol), shorten long family breed names like, "Darkwinds Terbo Chase" to "Chase". (It also sounds way less pretentious).

I'm not quite sure what you are saying here because no one who is knowledgeable and serious about working dogs is going to import animals that come with long, kennel club names. They will, if importing, bring in animals from ISDS or CBCA registered (or backgrounded) lines, and avoid anything that smacks of the kennel club mentality or breeding for anything but the work. That is why ABCA, ISDS, and CBCA have reciprocal registration agreements. Kennel clubs can only "appropriate" dogs from these registries - these registries will only accept kennel club registered (or non-registered) dogs that have proven themselves as quality workers through a rigorous register-on-merit testing.

 

Or maybe you were just joking?

[Pippin's person]

RE: chickens. We have two Buff Orpingtons in our small flock. One is great and a very consistent layer. The other one has gone broody three times (they are coming two), has never laid consistently (it also took well over a year for her comb to grow--so she may have something wrong) and tends to get fat. She's also done a full molt twice.

 

LOVE our sassy Brahma.

 

We name our chickens after female relatives in our own pedigrees: Alice, Dorothy, Virginia, Mildred, Ella, Flora, etc. We name our sheep after friends and co-workers (some of whom see it as an honor and some of whom look aghast). We name our dogs single names, 1-2 syllables, that don't sound too much alike. We've used characters in books, food, and tradition to come up with names. The one name we didn't do that for is the one I most regret choosing: Kyzer--wrong for him in a million ways--but Ky works pretty well

[Eileen Stein]

Getting back to the original question, I'm going to give an answer that may seem sharp. I don't mean it to be rude, and it's not aimed at any individual, but it reflects my feelings about this subject, and what's the point of posting something that doesn't?

 

The International Sheep Dog Society (ISDS) "permits the use of only one, simple working name for a registered dog" plus a kennel prefix. The ABCA has a limit of 14 characters (including spaces, and including kennel prefix, if any) for the names of dogs it registers.

 

This reflects the border collie tradition that a dog's name should be one that you can conveniently use to communicate with the dog when he is working. It also reflects the idea that the purpose of a dog's name is to address the dog, or to speak of the dog in a way that will effectively designate him. Its purpose is not to impress people with your cleverness, or with his highborn status. Traditionally, your dog was like your co-worker or your friend. My parents named me Eileen; they didn't name me "I Lean Toward the Arc of Justice," call name "Eileen." A similar simple name betokens respect for the dog himself, IMO, and not for impressing others.

 

I don't know of any working border collie people who have given their dogs names like Imperial Glory's Making Eyes At Ewe, call name Flirt, or Silverwood's Mighty Hunter of the Irish Skies, call name O'Ryan. Those types of names grow out of kennel club culture. (The AKC, if I recall correctly, permits dog names to be 36 characters long, and up to 50 characters long if you pay more for the privilege.) And I can't imagine working border collie people choosing to adopt this custom -- when you do, you are buying into a cultural tradition associated with show dogs and not working dogs. Adopting that naming system is aping "the Fancy." Outside "the Fancy," dogs of all kinds -- pet dogs, hunting dogs, sled dogs, working border collies -- are given a name to use for reference and for direct address. There's plenty of room for originality in traditional, short, functional names. It's only in the Fancy that the dual-name system is used -- one long and fancy name, and a different "call" name supposedly cleverly derived from the long fancy one. Long fancy names are not what our dogs are about. So while I'm okay with the "live and let live," "name him what you want" stuff, I -- and I think many others -- would draw certain conclusions about you if you gave your border collie a fancy name as or in addition to his real name. I recognize that many people would be quite comfortable and happy to have such conclusions drawn about them. It's just something that might be helpful for a newbie to know at the dog-naming stage.

[Mark Billadeau]

In every registry each dog gets a unique identifier (registration #) that distinguishes it from all other dogs. There is no need for a unique name for every dog especially if that name is not even going to be used.

 

[Journey]

What Eileen said needs to be pinned.

[GentleLake]

^^ Yes!

[geonni banner]

I too, agree with Eileen about the registered naming thing.

 

Pedigree names in show dogs are more often than not to give reference the breeder, or to a winning ancestor. Same with horses. Eg. - offspring of the Arabian stallion Khemosabi, will be named Apple Hill's (referring to the owner's stud farm) Khemo Candy. It isn't a name at all. It's an advertisement.

 

I don't even like branded clothes or shoes. You won't catch me wearing a T-shirt that has "NIKE" emblazoned across the front, or carrying a purse with little designer logos all over it. I have no interest in being a billboard for a designer or manufacturer.

 

Long "fancy" (read ridiculous) pedigree names for dogs are simple ads for the owner's ego. It's a way of saying, "Look at me! My dog is way fancy, related this other way fancy famous dog, and that makes me hot spit!

[Sunday]

I like both views on the whole name thing. My dog has a formal registered name that I actually use quite a bit on social media and when I have to list his name somewhere. I compare it to a person's full name. You're not going to say someone's first/middle/last name every time you speak to them, but the entire name does get used often in various ways.

I also wanted to choose a longer unique name so he stood out from the millions of "fido's" out there, if someone where to look him up. It's not ridiculous like AKC show names though.

 

However, I like the short one syllable names that are traditionally given to border collies too. So his everyday name is just that. Sun.

[mum24dog]

In every registry each dog gets a unique identifier (registration #) that distinguishes it from all other dogs. There is no need for a unique name for every dog especially if that name is not even going to be used.

 

 

But here we do use the full name rather than the number. Whilst our dogs have numbers we only use those on entry forms.

 

Imagine making presentations at a show with a couple of thousand dogs and the number of Sams, Bens, Maxs, Megs etc there would be. It's a lot easier to hear a longer name over the PA / Radio and keep track of who has won or been placed with which dog. Too many classes going on in too many rings to attend each presentation personally.

 

I don't actually know the everyday name of a lot of dogs that I recognise by their registered name.

 

Our KC has a limit of 26 characters for registration on the Activity Register, including spaces. Not excessive to my mind although I personally prefer to choose names around half that.. My next dog will probably be from a rescue with its own affix so will be longer though. I'm fine with advertising a rescue that way.

 

I have no idea about the rules that apply to the Breed Register.

 

Generally it would be very wrong to draw conclusions about a dog or its owner based on its name. How about the ISDS working dog and trial winner whose owner has an ISDS affix and has registered him with that followed by a short name but also has a similar but not identical KC affix and longer KC registered name for agility? Same dog, same working ability, same owner/breeder. Which box do they belong in?

[mum24dog]

I like both views on the whole name thing. My dog has a formal registered name that I actually use quite a bit on social media and when I have to list his name somewhere. I compare it to a person's full name. You're not going to say someone's first/middle/last name every time you speak to them, but the entire name does get used often in various ways.

I also wanted to choose a longer unique name so he stood out from the millions of "fido's" out there, if someone where to look him up. It's not ridiculous like AKC show names though.

 

However, I like the short one syllable names that are traditionally given to border collies too. So his everyday name is just that. Sun.

 

 

Good analogy.

 

I'm currently dealing with a mountain of agility show entries and if I have to email someone about their dog I'll only use part of the full name so they know which I mean

 

Our BC is registered with the KC as Culture Shock (which he was). His daily name is Kye, but I know quite a few other Kyes (with different spellings). A useful name but not sufficient to identify him in a crowd.

[Eileen Stein]

Generally it would be very wrong to draw conclusions about a dog or its owner based on its name.

No, generally it's very valid to draw conclusions about a dog or its owner based on its name. I don't opine as readily about other countries as some do, but here in the US, unless you are a total newcomer to border collies, the type of name you choose almost always indicates which camp you are in. If you have an elaborate "registered" name for your dog, you are either registering with a non-working registry, or imagining/pretending that you are. You have adopted the Kennel Club custom and cast in your lot with the Kennel Club side. Exceptions would be very rare -- I can't think of a single one -- and therefore it's a natural and accurate conclusion to draw.

 

Presentations at the type of trials I go to follow the format "3d place, Joe Smith and Moss; 2d place, Tom Davis and Sharpe; 1st place, Anne Keith and Smudge." Nobody has any trouble hearing or understanding that.

 

ETA: If I were dealing with trial entries and writing a trial entrant about his dog, I would say, "Corrie got in, but Swift didn't." I don't think the person I was writing to would be confused.

[Pippin's person]

No, generally it's very valid to draw conclusions about a dog or its owner based on its name.

 

This is exactly one of the reasons I mentioned that I regret the choice of "Kyzer" for one of my dogs. While it is not a dog fancy type name, it suggests affiliation with a really different set of activities than the ones we engage in together. I didn't realize that when I named him but once I did realize it, I've been uncomfortable with his name since (not so uncomfortable as to change it, mind you, except to shorten it to Ky, which is less marked).

 

In our case, the conclusions that might be drawn are incorrect; however, that doesn't change the fact of their being drawn (and I know from comments I've gotten that such conclusions have been drawn by multiple folks).

[Liz P]

But in the working Border Collie world, dogs and handlers are introduced together. You have no doubt which dog is about to run even if many have the same name.

[geonni banner]

Mum24dog says,

 

"Imagine making presentations at a show with a couple of thousand dogs..."

 

I'm trying to imagine a sheepdog/cattle trial with a couple thousand dogs.

 

"...and the number of Sams, Bens, Maxs, Megs etc there would be. It's a lot easier to hear a longer name over the PA / Radio and keep track of who has won or been placed with which dog. Too many classes going on in too many rings to attend each presentation personally."

 

Would these be Kennel Club shows? If so, I believe Eileen's point about affiliations being indicated by name is a valid one.

 

"Our BC is registered with the KC as Culture Shock..."

 

The KC may not be as malignant an organization as the AKC. (But then again it may.) But the point of affiliation is made again.

 

Names do say a lot about dogs and their owners. If you are introduced to a Pit Bull named "Jaws" and one named "Honey Pie", which one will you be keeping an eye on?

 

As for Border Collies, imagine a dog and handler walking on to a trial field as the announcer intones, Here is Joe Smith and his dog Ch. Patterson's Azure Will 'o' the Wisp in Satin." How many people in the stands are going to choose that moment to go get a hot dog or get into the line at the Pot-a-Potty? (After they recover from a fit of hysterical laughter.)

[Eileen Stein]

I like both views on the whole name thing. My dog has a formal registered name that I actually use quite a bit on social media and when I have to list his name somewhere. I compare it to a person's full name. You're not going to say someone's first/middle/last name every time you speak to them, but the entire name does get used often in various ways.

I also wanted to choose a longer unique name so he stood out from the millions of "fido's" out there, if someone where to look him up. It's not ridiculous like AKC show names though.

 

However, I like the short one syllable names that are traditionally given to border collies too. So his everyday name is just that. Sun.

What you're expressing here isn't both views, it's the kennel club view. Pretty much everybody -- KC or working or other -- uses a short name for their dog in everyday life. What distinguishes the KC culture people from the working culture people is that the KC culture people describe that name as a "call" name and make up a "longer unique" "formal registered" name for the dog besides.

[Oko]

Mum24dog says,

 

"Imagine making presentations at a show with a couple of thousand dogs..."

 

I'm trying to imagine a sheepdog/cattle trial with a couple thousand dogs.

 

I'm guessing the show in question was agility, and I don't see how that would be a problem. Personally, I find nothing wrong with the silly long names, Feist not having one. I do understand the other viewpoint, fine by me. I joke the standard poodle's registered name would be 'Marmalade Moonpie'. I know both of both a working sheepdog and sport bred border collie with the name Feist, so I suppose it could go either way. Oh, and one Malinois.

[Eileen Stein]

I understand that many people "find nothing wrong with the silly long names." The Kennel Club has tremendous influence over how the average person looks at dogs, and no doubt that includes what dogs' names should be.

 

But the OP asked, "Why do Border Collie people seem to stay away from the quirky or elaborate (for lack of better words) registered names? (So for example a dog with the call name 'Type' would be 'Blah Blah's Typing On The Computer' instead of just 'Type' or 'Blah Blah's Type'.)" . . . So is there a reason for this? Is it just personal preference? Are Border Collies with longer registered names viewed disdainfully by people with working Border Collies?" The OP said s/he thought "Who better to ask than the working Border Collie people themselves!"

 

So as a working Border Collie person, my answer, boiled down from the one I gave in post #56 of this thread: There is a reason for this, it's not just personal preference, and those names are a cultural indicator that anyone new to border collies might want to be aware of.

 

P.S. Feist is a nice name.

[toney]

As Eileen indicated it is a cultural thing. The culture of the working border collie versus the KC mindset. If you are FOR the working border collie then you are AGAINST the KC culture, including their ridiculous naming schemes.

[Sue R]

I've been giving this some thought as I walked the dogs. What's in a name? Eileen and others have said it best, and I thank them for their insight, input, and putting those concepts into words.

 

I, too, think that Eileen's post #56 should be pinned. It is a good one.

[bcnewe2]

My parents named me Eileen; they didn't name me "I Lean Toward the Arc of Justice," call name "Eileen."

I truly did get a chuckle out of this, only in my head I had all kinds of words to put with "I Lean"!

I am one that is in the short easy name side of the camp. Heck with g-kids, kids, hubs and multiple dogs sometimes I call them all the same thing. "hey you" or "knock it off"

But reading Eileen's post #56 really did explain to me why non KC people prefer to use short names. More so than the standard answer I've heard of "easy to use out in the field".

 

Thanks for the chuckle of the day Eileen....

[Mark Billadeau]

But here we do use the full name rather than the number. Whilst our dogs have numbers we only use those on entry forms.

 

Imagine making presentations at a show with a couple of thousand dogs and the number of Sams, Bens, Maxs, Megs etc there would be. It's a lot easier to hear a longer name over the PA / Radio and keep track of who has won or been placed with which dog. Too many classes going on in too many rings to attend each presentation personally.

 

When awards are given out only the dog is recognized; the handler doesn't even get their name announced????? The only way for people to know which dog/handler team won is to know the long registered name of every dog?

 

 

It is a cultural thing to have long fanciful names. If the culture was to only have call names, then that is what everyone would learn and each dog with the same name would have a handler's name associated with it. There are lots of Border Collie's named Spot; how many are known as Johnny Wilson's Spot?

 

IMO in performance venues it is appropriate to recognized both dog and handler since it is a team effort. Perhaps, in the show ring the attitude is the handler (who may not be the breeder) has little to do with the performance of the dog hence the desire for long fanciful names.

[Gloria Atwater]

But here we do use the full name rather than the number. Whilst our dogs have numbers we only use those on entry forms.

 

Imagine making presentations at a show with a couple of thousand dogs and the number of Sams, Bens, Maxs, Megs etc there would be. It's a lot easier to hear a longer name over the PA / Radio and keep track of who has won or been placed with which dog. Too many classes going on in too many rings to attend each presentation personally.

 

I don't actually know the everyday name of a lot of dogs that I recognise by their registered name.

 

 

This is the cultural difference we have referred to, between kennel club and working dogs. If I'm at a major, several-day championship sheepdog trial and 90 to 150 dog are running, there is no way I'm going to remember 90 to 150 dogs with elaborate names like Astrologically Amazing Fillibuster's Will o' the Wisp. For me, it'd would be like trying to memorize a phone book! It's a whole lot easier to know he's just Bill Jones' Will.

 

But I'm darned sure going to know who Spot or Cap are, because we'll know the handler: Wilson and Gallagher. Which will separate them from Jane Doe's Spot or John Smith's Cap. The registration numbers may only come into play if that handler has had two top dogs by the same name.

 

 

Generally it would be very wrong to draw conclusions about a dog or its owner based on its name. How about the ISDS working dog and trial winner whose owner has an ISDS affix and has registered him with that followed by a short name but also has a similar but not identical KC affix and longer KC registered name for agility? Same dog, same working ability, same owner/breeder. Which box do they belong in?

 

 

No, it's not actually wrong, at least in the working world. There are very few (if any) top ISDS or USBCHA trial dogs who also do agility and thus require registration with any kennel club. So, to hear a name like Astrologically Amazing Fillibuster's Will o' the Wisp is to immediately identify the dog and its owner as having KC or AKC affiliation and therefore having a fairly high probability of not being a top trial or farm dog. The reason being, those top dogs are rarely if ever diversified between work or sports. Their owners focus on one thing or the other.

 

So it's generally a pretty safe presumption to make. A dog that does top level work in agility or the show ring will only rarely be a real success on the trial field and as rarely be a full time working farm or ranch dog. Sure, an agility dog may also work sheep, but that kennel club name will set him apart to those who look for the good working lines. It's not enough to say, "But my KC/AKC registered dog also herds." I do realize that the KC may be different from our AKC, but anything AKC is subject to scrutiny, when it comes to the working qualities.

 

This is of course my opinion only!

 

~ Gloria