New FAQ topic: Signs & symptoms of a medical problem

[Miztiki]

I've been doing alot of research and it just occurred to me that this would be a great topic for the FAQ's.

 

At some point our dogs will have a medical problem, whether it's a burr stuck between their toes or allergies or hypothyroid or a UTI or whatever.

 

I think it would be very helpful if we listed all of the illnesses and injuries we have had experience with, and then described the signs and symptoms associated with that injury or illness.

 

To start, name a specific injury or illness your dog has personally experienced. Under that please list the signs and symptoms associated with that injury or illness. Include very subtle clues too. Try to be concise so that future readers can quickly go over the signs and symptoms.

 

Please do not include diagnostic tests or treatments, just signs and symptoms. Feel free to add to someone else's list of signs since all dogs have varying symptoms.

[Jenalyn]

I think that sounds like an excellent idea!

 

I was actually planning to do similar research (to add illnesses/allergies/etc to a virtual dog website -- to make it more realistic, as horrible as that sounds )

 

I don't want to hijack your idea, but what do you think about setting up a simple database/webpage for it? I could make each injury/illness an entry, complete with symptoms and suggested treatment, and people could search for entries by symptom, treatment, etc. Registered people could also add/update entries.

 

 

-Jenny

[Kat's Dogs]

LARYNGOSPASM (Reverse Sneezing)

caused by a temporary spasm of the Larynx muscles

 

 

? Very suddenly and seemingly without cause the attacks starts

? Looks as though the dog can?t catch its breath

? Violent, very loud, quite alarming ?snorts? of breath through the nose in attempt to take a breath

? Snorts every few seconds with no breaths in between

? Sometimes the dog shakes slightly as though shivering during the attack

? The dog?s body gets pretty tense while the attack is happening

? The attack can last between a few seconds to several minutes

? After the attack the dog usually seems a bit alarmed but within seconds is 100% normal again

 

(Making the dog swallow - or drink water - can stop the attacks)

[Miztiki]

Kat, that's exactly what I had in mind. How did you get those bullets (dots) in there though?

 

Jenny, I can't speak for anyone else, but I wouldn't mind at all if the info posted here was copied to a seperate site. I would like to put this in the FAQ's here though in hopes that people will do a google search and find our board. There is no better board on the net IMO!

[Kat's Dogs]

If you put the bullets (just the plain ones like that - not any fancy ones, they don't work) in Microsoft word, type your message up with them, and then copy and paste the whole message onto here you get the bullets with it.

 

If other people want to just use the ones from my post (much easier), select one of them then copy it (ctrl-C) and then paste it (ctrl-V) into the reply box - and there you have it!

 

Here is another bullet by itself just for the fun of it:

 

?

[Miztiki]

?blah blah

?blah blah

?blah

?blah

[Kat's Dogs]

Looks like you got it.

[lance]

Kat, How common is LARYNGOSPASM? Are border collies more prone to it? I believe Bandit may have it. In the 4 1/2 months I've had Bandit, He has made the snorting sound about 5-6 times. Around once a month. It never lasts long. It first happened in first week I got him. It startled me. I've never had a dog make that sound before. Luckily it never lasts long. over in about 5 seconds max.

[smileyzookie]

I know Riven had it BAD when I got her, but she had kennel cough.. is that a sign of kennel cough?

[nancy in AZ]

My ACD Minnie has had this, but until reading this thread I never knew what was goin on. Thought it looked as if she was swallowing her epiglottis.

[Kat's Dogs]

I don't know about kennel cough but Laryngospasm is actually pretty common.

 

Our Shih tzu has it and I know quite a few other dogs that have it too. The shih tzu used to get it once a year or less but now it is more common (once every few months).

 

As far as I know, Border Collies are not any more prone to it then any other dog. The short snouted/small breeds (like shih tzus, pugs, etc) are more prone to it though. Come to think of it, small dogs are a lot more prone to almost anything.

[MaggieDog]

EPILEPSY

 

? Trembling, falling, jerky movements that last for anywhere from a few seconds to several minutes

? Several types of seizures: petit mal (localized), gran mal (generalized/whole body involvement), focal (staring or fly catching type behavior)

? Requires immediate veterinary attention - seizures can be caused my a variety of things or may be idiopathic (no known cause) and thus proper treatment is necessary.

 

What to do if your dog has a seizure:

? Remove sharp objects from the area

? Do NOT try to put anything in their mouth or touch the tongue - some dogs may bite midseizure and they can't swallow their tongue!

? Block off stairs to prevent falls if dog is moving during and/or after the seizure

? Dim or turn off the lights in the room - some people have noticed that this calms the dog post seizure

? Get the dog to the vet ASAP

 

NOTE: The post-ictal phase, the period just after the seizure, can be very disorienting for a dog. Provide gentle guidance and ensure that the dog is not able to fall down stairs or bump into things that might hurt them before the vet visit.

[BigD]

Someone please note signs of Tick Borne Disease too. I think that is often over-looked.

 

Great idea!

 

D

[Tassie]

My previous Border Collie used to get the reverse sneezing thing occasionally - one day it was so bad I took him to the vet, as I thought he might have a grass seed up his nose - but it was 'just one of those things' - scary though, as the dog really seems to be struggling as the chest heaves.

 

Oh - and good idea, Miz. I'll do a couple from my experience.

[Tassie]

Hypothyroidism

 

(only one example ? apparently there are a number of signs and symptoms which dogs may show ? and sometimes it will be only one ? so that the diagnosis may be less obvious.)

 

? Hair loss ? key is that it was bilaterally symmetrical

? Skin changes to dark lizard appearance ? associated odour ? from secondary infection

 

My poor old Jess dog was treated for parasites for some time, with no effect. In those days, hypothyroidism in dogs was not well-recognized here, and there were no blood tests for it. Once diagnosed, it was easily managed with thyroxine replacement therapy.

 

 

Immune-mediated hemolytic anemia (also known as AIHA/IMHA

 

? Lethargy

? Depression

? Progressive weakness ? especially in the hind end

? Jaundice

? Blood tests show very low PCV ? red cell count

 

This is a disease with a high mortality rate, and can be very rapid onset. Sam (12.5 years) went from off-color to dead in 4 days. In retrospect, I know now it is important to follow up even a very mild anemia ? which had shown up in Sam?s bloods some months before ? but we didn?t fuss about it since to all intents and purposes the dog was very fit and well. That earlier anemia may have been unrelated, or it may have been an early indicator of disease.

[Kyrasmom]

To be added to Hypothyroidism as potential symptoms:

 

? loss of appetite or very little interest in food - possibly underweight

 

? unpredictable aggression or irritability

 

? lack of focus

 

 

Pancreatitis

 

? Generalized pain, mostly abdominal but could be misdiagnosed as back pain

 

? Refusal to walk/exercise

 

? Lack of appetite

 

? Panting - probably a reaction to the pain

 

I'll be back with more, it sucks when you can come up with sooo many different diseases right off the top of your head.

 

Maria

[AK dog doc]

Stop. Full stop here, gang. Unless you are a vet, you should not be having any "suggested treatment" remarks ANYWHERE on an FAQ. An FAQ section implies by its very nature that it is NOT lay opinion, personal anecdote or private experience, but fact. To have it in FAQ's on a board of this nature lends it a validity that is neither wise nor warranted, even if the information is correct. No matter how intelligent, reasoned, experienced or wise you may be - and believe me, I harbor considerable respect and affection for many of the folks here, and no animosity towards any of them - you are not veterinarians. It is inappropriate and potentially dangerous for you to act as one, and publishing medical information (and worse, medical advice) in the absence of appropriate expertise and liscensure is, IMO, crossing that line.

 

People come here for advice and they often get very good advice - which means that they may be inclined to substitute the information and judgement of the people on this board for getting actual veterinary advice or attention. I cannot overstate what a very bad idea this is. Even worse to post it elsewhere as an offshoot of these boards - less control of it, and so more potential for damage.

 

It's one thing to say, "Well, when my dog got this, I did X" or "My vet advised Y, and here's what happened" - then you are telling your own personal experiences and what happened in your case. If you put up a thread that says "Here are some common dog diseases and the symptoms and what to do about them", and moreover save it as an FAQ, you are overstepping the bounds. At minimum you are implying expertise that may or may not exist, depending on what degrees and liscences you hold. At maximum, it could be construed as practicing veterinary medicine without a liscence, and that is a Very Bad Idea.

 

If you are not a vet, you are not liscenced to diagnose or treat (or advise treatment) of anything for any non-human animal. Even if you are an MD, you are not liscenced to diagnose or treat or advise treatment for any animal apart from humans. If your chiropractor treats your dog and charges you for it, he is practicing veterinary medicine without a liscence. If you and he want to risk his liscence that way, that's between you and the authorities and the liscencing board of the state in which you live. But I think it would be wrong of me to stand by and watch these boards step into something where there is a risk of harm to an animal, or of the associated liability (either legal or otherwise).

 

If you recall, I have VERY frequently posted, "I cannot diagnose your dog over the 'net, so this is just general information" - and you need to remember that I AM a liscenced veterinatrian, so I DO have the knowledge and expertise to discuss medicine. It's not that I question the knowledge and education of the people on this board. It's that I SERIOUSLY question the wisdom of putting one's self in a position of implied expertise when one is not qualified or liscenced to do so. If you put medical information in an FAQ section, you are giving at least the impression that those who have written the descriptions and suggested the treatments are qualified to do so. To me that looks like just asking for trouble, both from a liability standpoint and from the potential for harm to someone's dog.

 

By all means, consult Eileen on this - she is the board moderator and an attorney - but I cannot advise it. If Eileen cares to sticky anything I've written about health issues, she is welcome to do so (although I'm sure she'd ping me first give me a chance to read over it and be sure I've not mis-spoken myself). But I have grave doubts about the wisdom of an FAQ section on health which is not written by health professionals.

 

JM(stongly-held)O. And with no intent to give offense, but strong intent to protect the boards and the members thereof from liability.

[Miztiki]

I agree that no treatment advice should be included.

 

This is a rough draft. After several people have provided input, I'll rewrite it so it looks something like this:

 

Signs and Symptoms of a Medical Problem

 

Our dogs will have an injury or suffer from illness at some point. It's helpful to know what signs to look for that may indicate that your dog has a medical problem.

 

The following are signs and symptoms observed by the members of this board. All dogs are individuals and may not show the same signs or symptoms. Some dogs are also very stoic and may only show very subtle signs of having a problem, or there may be no typical signs at all. It's important that you learn what is normal for your dog. Any deviation from normal could indicate that there is a medical problem.

 

If you suspect that your dog is sick, injured, or in pain, consult your veterinarian for testing and treatment. No one can diagnose your dog over the internet.

 

Neck or Back Pain

 

Possible signs are:

 

Holding head low

Slow to get up or down

Reluctance to perform a usual activity

Lashing out or other unusual aggression

Hunching over

Unsteady, stiff, or unusual gait

(Etc.)

 

UTI

 

Possible signs are:

 

Peeing in the house

Peeing often

Squatting to pee but not peeing

(Etc.)

 

So on and so forth.

 

Obviously I wouldn't want to put this board in a legal bind. What do you think about what I'm proposing though?

[Black Watch Debatable]

I like our case history approach---the one we see every day in the Health and Genetics Forum. Someone writes in about an ailment or injury; the rest of us share anecdotes and a few internet links; and we wait to see what the vet has to say.

 

Given the availability of the Merck Manual online (as well as many other vet-written dog health sites), creating an injury/illness database would kind of be like reinventing the wheel---and since our FAQ could never be as comprehensive as Merck (or as definitive as a vet's diagnosis), there would be lots of potential for trouble (as AK dog doc has pointed out). I've lost dogs to a couple of the illnesses mentioned above, for example, and in both cases the symptoms didn't jibe with what's been posted here.

 

To post a list of symptoms for a specific ailment---particularly in an FAQ---implies a diagnosis, no matter how many disclaimers appear. And I'm seriously spooked by anything that might make people less keen to get a sick dog to the vet.

[Kyrasmom]

I really hadn't thought about it that way and both Luisa and AK Dog Doc have good points, though I think that listing symptoms might actually make more people get their dog to the vet for a non-issue than the alternative. Symptoms can vary so much and be so individual, that people may be spooked into taking their dog to the vet when he's just having an off day or tired from working/playing too much. More times than not, people consistenly reading message boards are pro-active...sometimes too much so.

 

I've been guilty of going to the vet with a list of maladies only to be sent home with a hug and a reassurance. And she was right.

 

Either way, it's probably best to hear what Eileen proposes before continuing.

 

Maria

[AK dog doc]

Thank you, Luisa; that's a succinct way of stating the case, and demonstrates my point. I'm not trying to be a pain, and I'm certanly not trying to insult the intelligence of any member of these boards, but I strongly feel that even in the absence of providing treatment options (for legal reasons), putting up an FAQ on medical information which is not written by medical professionals is a bad idea. As Luisa points out, putting it under the auspices of an FAQ implies a diagnosis and that the information is being presented by those qualified to do so. Disclaim all you want, it still gives that appearance. If it comes to saying that any deviation from normal could indicate a medical problem, isn't that A) common sense and so vaugue as to be non-information?

 

It's a good point that there already exist more definitive and comprehensive internet resources than anything we could create. Just to give you a sense of proportion here, I would in NO way feel comfortable writing such a section myself, even if I had time to do an adequate job - and it would take a LOT of time to do even an adequate job, let alone a good one. I'm just a general practitioner, not a board-certified specialist, and I would feel that writing such a section implied for ME a certain level of advanced expertise that I do not posess. Bear in mind that I AM a fully qualified, liscenced vet, with more than a decade of experience. If I do not feel that MY level of expertise justifies me presenting myself as expert enough to write for these boards an FAQ on medical issues, then would it be a good idea for someone less qualified than I am to do so?

 

I have no problem with people sharing their experiences about their dog's health situation, nor with the stockmen on the board swapping information - that's a conversation among equals and everyone knows that. I have no problem sharing general medical information with the members of this board in the interest of general education, or donating what time I have avaiable for that to broaden the knowledge base of this internet community. I DO have a problem with writing and posting as an FAQ a list of medical information that is not written by medical experts. I've stated my qualifications. If I feel I'm not qualified to present myself as expert enough to write such a section, think what it would mean for someone without my degrees, certification, liscensure or exerience to do so.

 

Again - this is in no way to imply that I think that I am more intelligent or "better" than anyone else here on the Boards, or that I think "you" [general board member(s)] are too stupid to rememeber, research or accurately report medical information about your dog's illnesses. It is only to state that putting up an FAQ list of medical information implies a level of expertise which, unless you are a medical professional (let alone a board-certified expert), you do not posess. It would be like me going to an aviation site and writing an FAQ about aviation because my BF is a professional pilot and I've spent a lot of time listening to him and flying with him. Yeah, I've got more time in the air than most non-pilots. How does that qualifiy me to set myself up to write an FAQ on aviation? It doesn't. It wouldn't even if I had a private pilot's liscence. I'm not stupid, and I'm not unthinking, and I'm certainly capable of remembering and assimilating a lot of information. But I AM NOT a professional pilot nor certified flight instructor nor FAA certified expert (etc etc). I therefore have no buisness doing anything which would imply that level of expertise, even if I myself was a liscenced pilot. If I did such a thing and even ONE person came to grief over it, how would I feel? And what would my liability be? And what would the liability be for the board which allowed me to post an FAQ section without appropriate qualification? Or for the members of that board?

 

I hope that example makes it clear that I'm not trying to denigrate anyone's intelligence or good intentions, but that it is a different matter entirely which concerns me. My preference would be to continue to do as we've done, and share and post on cases as they occur. I'm okay with sticky-ing things that come up often, or putting a thread under FAQ; that's obviously a thread (and all that that implies), with input from multiple members, and not an "expert advice" sort of presentation, being presented by non-experts.

 

JMO as a medical professional.

[mado]

AK dog doc thank you ; This is SO common sense ...

 

Don't start your flying forum just yet , lest we get people falling from the skies in all directions

 

[Eileen Stein]

Miz, thank you for your initiative, from which we all benefit all the time, but I'm inclined to agree that a medical FAQ is not a good idea. When people post asking medical questions, what they write is generally very fraught with details and variables. I think personal answers to their questions by those who have either expertise or personal experience with the conditions raised are preferable to referring them to a list not tailored to the particular information they give (besides the fact that most people find it more user friendly). Any list would necessarily have to be pretty cut and dried, and for that kind of a general list I think there are better sources available.

 

But again, I really appreciate the thought and effort you give to making these Boards more useful and informative for people, and reducing the workload of our faithful information providers whenever possible.