Wanting to start agility - one way better than the other?

[Betsy]

So yesterday I attended an event at a local dog training center where they do demos of different things such as tracking, agility flyball, etc as well as rescue tables, raffles, etc. I did the little agility course they had set up with my 7-month old. He has never interacted with any of the obstacles before - they had jumps, tunnel, dog walk and a-frame (don't worry everything was pretty much low to the floor, except the A-frame).

 

HE LOVED IT!! I was so surprised that he took to everything immediately and wanted to do it over and over again! I did have to run the A-frame with him to get him to go over the top (yes, I ran all the way up and over it in my nice boots! and had one lady tell me they have never had anyone do that before (I asked first)). But after that he had no problem doing it by himself and came down the other side not-too-fast, not-too-slow. He listened to me better while on that course for 5 minutes than he has at any other time in his life.

 

Anyway, my question is, I have previously been taking classes at a different dog training place. They use shaping (no clickers, just marker words) to teach agility there. They claim they will have better, faster, cleaner running dogs with this method than just teaching the obstacles themselves (using luring or whatever) and are "better" than "that other place" (they never named the other place, but it's about the only other place in town that offers such classes).

 

So, experienced agility people - do you think that is true? Will I get better results if I stick with shaping for teaching the obstacles? If I do, I have to take 2 more classes before you even start using the equipment! But if I go with this other place I can start working with the obstacles right away.

 

Opinions?

[Sekah]

BCs tend to excel at agility. There's a reason they're the #1 choice of just about every top competitor world-wide.

 

Shaping is normally preferable to luring in agility, yes. What is "the other place" like? If they're luring dogs over obstacles, running on leash or offering "fungility" classes, they're probably a mediocre facility at best. The best ones that I know of introduce obstacles slowly, focus heavily on groundwork and emphasize working on the basics before long sequences are ever introduced.

 

A word of warning though -- agility is an addictive drug.

[Root Beer]

I did have to run the A-frame with him to get him to go over the top (yes, I ran all the way up and over it in my nice boots! and had one lady tell me they have never had anyone do that before (I asked first)).

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! HA!!!! Oh my goodness!!

[Blackdawgs]

I would not be wildly enthusistic about a place that allowed you and a dog to run over an A-frame together.

 

Believe it or not, obstacles are the least important component of agility. Your dog is only 7 months old, waiting 2 weeks (2 classes) before starting obstacle work is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Foundation work is frequently skipped (*must*do*obstacles*now*), but it is truly the most important part of agility.

 

I would watch the least advanced class and the most advanced class at both places before making a final decision, but the clicker class may give you a better foundation.

[Oko]

I would definitely, definitely go with the place that shapes. The fact that they let your 7 month old puppy do an aframe makes me uneasy. The fact that you have to wait two classes to start doing equipment is a good thing. There is a ton of foundation work for agility that you can do without a single obstacle. If you go ahead and just do the obstacles because it's fun, you are probably going to have major holes to patch up in your training later on.

[Betsy]

Okay thanks for the input! I kinda knew that in my heart, but it was so fun! (BTW, 2 "classes" does not equal 2 "weeks", each "class" is 6 weeks long)

[Kian's Mom]

Would of loved to have seen that. Agility is VERY VERY addicative.

 

We start our dogs off with wobble boards, No jumps just the standards or maybe bars on the ground. Borads on ground to start dog walk. An A frame almost on ground. Tunnel compressed. A lot of ground work. No sequences until each obstacle is mastered. Not only are the dogs being trained but so are the handler on what commands to use ( which very greatly )when to use them , where you need to be in order to help your dog. You need a solid foundation.

Been awhile since I started a puppy or beginner class but believe it's all on lead. We do use treats.

 

The number one thing to look for is safety for the dog. One fall is all it takes to really hurt your dog of make a dog afraid. The dogs need to lean where to place their feet , be aware of where their hind end is, their body position on a whole. Takes time an should be done slowly. Some dogs do learn faster that others.

 

Agility is obedience over obstacles.

[gcv-border]

I will second (or is it third?) the opinions to look for a beginning class(es) that stress foundations (flatwork handling, motion under their feet, etc.) Teaching obstacles (particularly for border collies) is fairly enjoyable because they enjoy learning the obstacle - hence it can be a lot easier than learning the handling skills. Everybody wants to do the obstacles, but what is more important is the other 95% of a course - i.e. the path between the obstacles, and this is why handling skills are so important. [When I started ~5-6 years ago, the handling was not stressed that much - so we still struggle with that aspect to this day.]

 

Training philosophies have really undergone a major change in the last 5-6 years. I prefer the more recent philosophies that use games and lots of reinforcements to 'train' the dog. The dog thinks it is playing a game, but it is really getting trained.

 

Good Luck.

[d112358]

I'm in a foundation class that started in early June and meets weekly. We ran our first A-frame last week, and that's the first of the contact obstacles we've been on. All the early foundation work for running contacts was done on a carpet, and for stopped contacts was with a small contact trainer or wobble board. It is pretty tedious from a handler's perspective, but her performance on the A-frame is 100% worth it - she was striding through it pretty much from the start.

 

In the class I assist with (which is more geared towards the recreational handler), the only 'real' obstacles that come out in the first 6-week class are jumps (week 2), the table (week 2) and tunnels (week 3 or 4). The wobble board, ladder and other foundation equipment are also used in that class.

 

Rushing into obstacle performance - it's kind of like using paint-by-numbers instead of learning how to paint, or using hunt-and-peck rather than touch typing. You end up limiting yourself even though it seems faster to start out with.

[alligande]

Add my voice to sticking with your existing school, it might be a little tedious but you will end up with a dog who really understands the game, which as you advance becomes really important. The book Agility Right From The Start is a clicker based book that might help you understand what and why is happening in your classes. I know when I started out not understanding the importance of contact behaviour caused me endless amounts of problems.. There was a long list of other problems as well from being clueless.