Beginner training with non dog broke sheep

[KrisK]

Flint just turned two. He comes from very good working lines and he is now showing a lot of interest in the sheep - This occurred today.

 

This is something I didn't really expect...but I know this is going to be good...eventually.. I went to check the temporary fence after all the rain. I'm out in the field and what to my wondering eyes appear...but Flint! He's moving around the fence to head the sheep. Now this is something he's never done before so it appears as though his 'sheep' brain has kicked in. Since I didn't want him too close, I gave him a "lie down'..which he did and a 'That'all do' when I was done...and he did!

 

I have 6 Shetland sheep who are not dog broke although they have had limited contact with my dogs. While Flint has had no real training, I have taken some with my old dog, I have the DVDs, the books, I've attended trials, I understand the concepts.

 

When the sheep aren't in the temporary fencing, they are in a 120x40 fenced area.

 

My question - would I be risking my sheep, if I attempted to have Flint work them while on a long line...

 

I know it is ideal to have a trainer and I'm working on this...but I did not expect him to suddenly 'turn' on at this stage.

 

 

 

[Maxi]

Shetland sheep are even more flighty than the Scottish Blackface (Blackies) that others often write about in these boards. Obviously, it will also depend on their previous experiences with dogs and humans, but they are much more like to scatter (rather than flock) and go through non-secure fences. I've also heard of sheep that have broken their necks or legs from running into a fence.- In their panic, they just don't see the fence any more,

 

Personally when I'm asked by anyone to help shepherd this particular breed of sheep (and a few other native breeds), I always take my most experienced dog with me.

 

If you are a complete newbie but want to train your dog then get some easier sheep for him to manage.

[Gloria Atwater]

Unless these sheep are dog broke and have been handled by an experienced dog, I would not recommend it. Shetlands can be flighty and about half feral, and your dog could end up in situations where he can't control his sheep and you can't help him. This could encourage undesirable behaviors such as gripping and chasing, and it could lead to sheep doing panicked things like crashing into fences, leaping fences or running into gates.

I do not recommend an inexperienced trainer trying a young dog on this breed. I think the potential is too great for incorrect or undesirable things to happen. It's better to wait and make sure you both get helpful and proper training. Just my tuppence, of course. Best of luck

~ Gloria

[Smalahundur]

I was actually forced to go trough this, training a green dog on undogged sheep and on top of that being inexperienced myself.

And that on Icelandic sheep, a breed comparable to the shetland (worse if anything I imagine).

 

I started with a smallish round pen with the dog on the outside, to minimize risks during first exposure.

 

It is doable, but I would not recommend it, it was a rocky road, and if you have other options, buying dog broke sheep, training someplace else where such sheep are available under a good instruction etc. , take them. I would have had it been available...

[juliepoudrier]

I tend to agree with the above, unless your Shetlands are fairly tame and willing to come to you anyway. In the small area you're talking about, it would be difficult (but not impossible) for a sheep to get up a head of steam and kill themselves on the fence, at least if they're already conditioned to come toward you.The other issue with Shetlands is that like Blackies, they can be pretty darn crafty. It won't take them long to figure out ways to outmaneuver your pup.

 

As has been said, the ideal situation would be to get help and start with dog broke sheep, but if you have no other options, then you will end up doing like many a farmer before has done and just get on with it. I started my latest on goat kids, who probably behave more like the primitive sheep breeds (or cattle) than sheep. This was in an area about as large as you describe. I managed, even though the goats want to split, won't come to the human, and will exploit any weakness/inexperience they think they can get away with.

 

Then again, this isn't my first rodeo, which does make a difference. Hopefully you'll be able to find someone who can help you get Flint started.

 

J.

[Jumpin Boots]

Coming from a novice, with a young dog and undogged sheep I would tend to agree with others and get your dog started under an experienced hand with puppy or training sheep.

 

Timber and I had been taking lessons for at least 6 months prior to the first time I planned on him working the stock (he had snuck in through fences a few times and I'd used him on leash a few times). He had a pretty decent down, that'll do and flanks off of body position, yet everything was lost for a few moments when the sheep saw a 'little coyote' and freaked out and scattered.

 

While I wouldn't change a day of this amazing journey he and I have shared so far. I can see why do many people advise against starting this way and buying dogged sheep (which wasn't a financial option for us). We finally made good headway working ours when my trainer and a friend if hers came to our place and worked Timber and their dogs on my stock. It helped so much to see how an experienced hand dealt with the sheep running along fence lines and slowing things down to gain control.

 

Best of luck.

[KrisK]

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful comments...you have more or less reiterated what I thought anyway. While getting Flint trained will be a fall priority, I have no desire to see my sheep injured because of youthful exuberance or my inexperience