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For owners with dogs who easily overheat


Rave
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Since I have had two Border Collies now who are prone to overheating, and since I've been told the exact same thing by two holistic vets (one on each coast), and since I've read a number of you are having the same problem, I thought I'd pass on what I've learned.

 

While some dogs might not fit well into the box defined as EIC, EIH, malignant hyperthermia, etc..., the owners can tell the dog is overheating to the point of showing neurological signs, from stumbling and incoherent to full-blown seizures. Eastern medicine doesn't need a diagnosis of one of these conditions to treat the problem, they see the symptoms and attack it with a change in diet and if needed, Chinese herbs. A change in diet is something simple anyone can do. Just as eating healthy can make us humans feel better, so can it in dogs. And just like I can't eat certain foods, neither can my dogs.

 

For dogs who burn hot, they should not be fed foods that also burn hot. Some foods burn hot, while others are considered cool foods. Hot foods are lamb, venison, most grains, etc... Cool foods are fish, root vegetables, seaweed, etc... I'm sorry I don't have more examples. My vet back east had a chart and gave me tons of examples years ago, but I don't have that list anymore. Anyway, I went looking for a fish-based no-grain food and was surprised to find several at my local pet store. It seems the no-grain way of feeding has caught on with manufacturers. While no grain is preferred, using a food with oats and oatmeal is ok. I ended up picking up the fish variety of Wellness Core (no grains) because it had several sources of fish as the first 4-5 ingredients, not just one. Natural Balance even had their own variety that was less expensive.

 

I just got two mixtures of Chinese herbs to start giving Rave, so I don't know how well they work yet. I'll report back here once I know.

 

-Laura

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I've been using the "hot" and "cool" foods system for a while - not for health purposes, but to maximize performance seasonally. I really think it helps. It's discussed briefly in Volhard.

 

Oats are a "hot" grain, while barley is one of the cool grains. I switched back and forth between the two when I was "doing" Volhard, but now I switch between oats and potatoes instead.

 

I'd never thought of applying it to overheating issues - the only dog I had with any problems was Jen and she outgrew it after I spayed her. Good luck with your pups! :rolleyes:

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That's really interesting. Let us know how it goes. Both of mine get super heated. Lucia knows enough to say when. Grady will go until he keals over, so needs to be watched like a hawk.I'm getting ready to switch them both from Taste of the Wild with the venison and buffalo to Orijen which is chicken and fish based. I wonder if this will help during the summer months.

 

Did they mention whether it was a good idea to use the hot foods in the winter for warmth and the cool foods in the summer?

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I've been wondering if there is a difference between mutton and lamb when it comes to Chinese hot/cold foods. I almost would call mutton cold...hmmmm. Anyone know?

 

how about sweet potatoes?

 

There are a couple of meals that were traditional to UK working dogs (which, if you believe such, are part of the foods they were inadvertantly bred to do well on). One is raw milk soaked oats, and the other is mutton scraps and fish. The first 2 of those technically should be "hot". Ideas on this?

 

eta, in horses hot and cold feeding is almost ingrained over hundreds of years. Corn was "hot" that you gave a working animal during the winter. Oats, still hot, but not as bad as corn. Bran cooled a horse off.

 

The idea that improving the diet of an overheating prone dog by removing hot foods (especially corn) has been touched on before.

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That's why I have been saying for years that I don't like or believe in those energy bars for dogs, which are very high in corn syrup and other cheap sources of calories. It has to do with how the dog's body metabolizes the food. I can't remember which pet food company did it, but one of them has research on how quickly each source of carbs is metabolized. They had a graph with corn, rice, wheat, oats, sorghum, etc.

 

A common snack for sled dogs is fish, meat and fat in lots of water. When I used to run my BCs on a sled team I had to be careful about their carbs or they had no stamina. I do notice a huge difference in stamina and heat tolerance based on what I am feeding.

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Being a root veggie, Sweet potatos should be cool. Makes sense things grown underground and under water are cool! There are a lot of fish & sweet potato dog foods out there now.

 

Along the lines of the energy bars, I gave Wick some of that K9-Go I think it's called, supposedly to help dehydration because it entices them to drink and that was like giving her crack. She was shaking from the "high" of it. Never again!

 

One of the research articles I read on EIC suggested a higher fat diet may help with that problem.

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This is very interesting. About 18 months ago, under the care of a holistic vet, I switched Quinn over to a home prepared diet that includes a lot of grains -- mainly oatmeal and barley. At age 3 last summer, he went from being relatively heat tolerant, at least in the sense that I could trust him to take a break from play as needed, to having three incidents of being over-heated (unsteady and stumbling a bit). Each time, he had played the same amount or less than he had previously played with no ill effects. I now make sure to carefully monitor his play and have him take frequent breaks depending on temperature and humidity.

 

While I would love to see him more heat tolerant, he is doing so great health wise compared to before we started this diet, that I'll continue to manage his activity level rather than make any changes in his food. But maybe this explains the difference in his heat tolerance.

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River has been on California Natural (Chicken) for a least 6 months now because it's the only kibble I've found that doesn't give her the runs. It's just turned hot in the PacNW and she still overheats (and it doesn't have to be hot, we're talking 60-75 degrees but full sun). Sometimes she does stop the play, but often I'm the one that has to stop it because I'm pretty keen on where her tolerance is. She only overheats when playing fetch as she runs full out both ways.

 

If switching to their fish version, of Herring/Sweet Potato will help her overheating and still not give her the runs, then I'll endure the smell of fish kibble which I hate. So awaiting as well to hear if chicken is a cool protein, a search on google didn't give the answer I need.

 

 

Chicken Main Ingredients:

Chicken Meal

Brown Rice

Rice

Sunflower Oil

Flaxseed

 

Fish Main Ingredients:

Herring

Barley

Oatmeal

Herring Meal

Herring Oil

Sunflower Oil

Sweet Potatoes

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My guess is it depends on the dog. If you're seeing problems with chicken, then switch to fish. I believe chicken is cooler than lamb, but not as cool as fish. I switched Wick years ago from lamb to chicken and that was enough for her. However, Rave on that same chicken food is overheating to the point of seizures (in the PAC NW), so now we're switching to fish.

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I've personally found that my "hot" dog does better without corn. But they do best on raw. When feeding raw I also included some home made dog food, consisting of rice, oats and shredded veggies with supplements. They all did wonderful. But I also started them on raw in Nov. so can't say what summer is like. I will switch back to raw when I have more freezer space but for now they are on TOTW venison. I will go back to the fish protein to see if it helps, as they are running hot now that the weather is changing. Plus it's our first summer in CO so I think we're still acclimating to climate. Which should be good in the end.

 

I'm not sold on all cool foods compared to hot, but am really not a fan or corn. I think it's in the make up of the dog. But that's only my opinion.

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Perhpas it's because I live in the desert and the animals here are acclimated to the heat but I've never had a problem with my dogs and heat stress. However I do keep a close eye on them and read everything yo guys post about it. Thx

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Perhpas it's because I live in the desert and the animals here are acclimated to the heat but I've never had a problem with my dogs and heat stress. However I do keep a close eye on them and read everything yo guys post about it. Thx

 

I didn't either when I lived in New Mexico or Nevada. Even in 100F, no problems. Back in PA or Missouri in 70F and high humidity and I really have to watch Riley like a hawk for signs of heat stress.

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Perhpas it's because I live in the desert and the animals here are acclimated to the heat but I've never had a problem with my dogs and heat stress. However I do keep a close eye on them and read everything yo guys post about it. Thx

 

You've got only moderate heat stress out there imo. In the summer here it can easily reach 120F with 100% humidity at ground level in our pastures. It is literally diffifult to breathe - sort of like you are underwater. You have to watch the dogs carefully, and you quickly learn who's got the heart, lungs, and self cooling ability to be your go-to dog in these conditions. But even those dogs have a breaking point and you have to learn to spot it before they are already in trouble. One of the things I've really learned to watch is the amount of sun on the water on the ground. Reflection can add to the heat tremendous, even when the air temp is not extreme.

 

Unfit dogs, especially hyper minded ones fed diets high in corn, burn themselves to the danger point almost immediately in this heat.

 

For diet my dogs need moderate, high quality protein, and high fat. Carbs are only good for burst energy, the first 1.5 minutes. After that they burn fat.

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  • 3 months later...
I've been wondering if there is a difference between mutton and lamb when it comes to Chinese hot/cold foods. I almost would call mutton cold...hmmmm. Anyone know?

 

how about sweet potatoes?

 

From what i know.. mutton and lamb is the same.. from goat/sheep is hot- we use the term heaty/heatiness

 

Chicken is heaty too.

 

And sweet potatoes is neutral.

 

you can read more from the list here..

 

http://ezinearticles.com/?Heaty-and-Coolin...s&id=461430

 

it's funny.. cos i grew up with this stuff.. and people often scoff at traditonal chinese medicine.. and i'm really surprised to see a thread on it here

 

:rolleyes:

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it's funny.. cos i grew up with this stuff.. and people often scoff at traditonal chinese medicine.. and i'm really surprised to see a thread on it here

 

Thanks for the link. Nothing to scoff at, besides, when it comes to my dogs "if it works" I am good with it. Shoot, I am driving 12 hours this month to visit my old Chiro/Acupuncture/Holistic vet in Fl. Can't find one in the area we're in now.

 

And yes, mutton/lamb are both hot foods.

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Hot foods/cold foods low bioavailability/highbioavailability - makes no sense to me at all.

 

I believe chicken is cooler than lamb, but not as cool as fish.

 

On what basis do you believe this? Has someone burned a gram of chicken in a calorimeter and determined that when you consume chicken it puts out less heat that the same amount of lamb? Or, is this just a folk tale with absolutely nothing to back it up?

 

You eat the food. The food gets broken down in the stomach and intestines into carbohydrates, peptides, fats, vitamins, trace minerals. At which point one source is indistinguishable form another source.

 

High simple sugars, fructose (corn syrup), sucrose is not good as it causes insulin resistance, but other than that, it doesn't matter one bit where you get the protein or fats from, as long as you get enough and not too much.

 

Several people mention the things that do matter protein:fat:carbs ratios matter. You want more fat, less carbs and some dogs will do better on 13% protein, others on 26% protein.

 

Conditioning is the greatest protection against heat stress. The leaner and fitter the dog, the less chance of overheating at a given rate of work (because a fit animal - human or canine) burns fewer calories, generates less heat, doing the same amount of work than an unfit animal.

 

Acclimatization is the second greatest protection. My dogs are usually in the midwest. It starts getting hot and humid in May. By July they are used to it. This year they are in the Pacific Northwest. It isn't that hot and it isn't that humid. They aren't as acclimated to heat so I need to watch them closer.

 

I don't scoff at traditional medicine but I need actual proof of something before believing it and if someone makes a claim that A is better than B, I want to know the basis of the claim is more than anecdotal evidence.

 

Pearse

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Traditional feeding has it's basis of what works. Preceding (science) by several hundred years caretakers of animals knew what feeds created the energy level in the specific environment that was needed. For example your theory; if bioavailablity is the primary component that counts, then you should be able to feed a race horse an equivalent amount of any food product and get the same results. Yet it's well known and proven that corn is a hot food, more likely to tie up or founder a stabled horse, oats are hot enough for speed but not enough to founder with inactivity, barley is a cool food used for inactive horse that are prone to founder.

 

When looking at overheating at work, genetics will be your primary component as to how a dog will tolerate heat, from food to exercise. Then in equal standing is physical fitness, mental fitness, and diet. If you have a mentally stressed dog it will overheat regardless of feeding and fitness, while a physically fit dog will not run long on inappropriate food.

 

It's a package deal. You have to put the right fuel in, have the right fitness. You can't blame one component, nor can you ignore one component.

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Traditional feeding has it's basis of what works. Preceding (science) by several hundred years caretakers of animals knew what feeds created the energy level in the specific environment that was needed. For example your theory; if bioavailablity is the primary component that counts, then you should be able to feed a race horse an equivalent amount of any food product and get the same results. Yet it's well known and proven that corn is a hot food, more likely to tie up or founder a stabled horse,

 

Yes it is, and it is known why. Corn is not a "hot" food. Corn is high in simple sugars. that's why they make high fructose corn syrup out of corn. And high carbohydrate load is what contributes to founder. And it has nothing to do with it being "hot". The excess sugars can't be digested in the stomach, pass into the intestine, alter the bacterial flora causing the release of endotoxins which, it is thought, alter blood flow in the hoof and leave the animal susceptible to founder. Oats and barley are lower in simple sugars and higher in complex carbohyrates.

 

Back in ancient times, philosophers believed that disease originated from an imbalance of the four bodily humours (black bile, yellow bile, phlegm, and blood) which corresponded to the four elements (earth, fire, water, and air). They used to bleed people for diseases such as smallpox or anything else that involved fevers (hot) or applied hot cups to cure melancholy (cool). Now we know that fevers are symptoms of bacterial or viral infections and we don't try to cure them by bleeding patients, or feeding them fish.

 

Pearse

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Traditional feeding has it's basis of what works. Preceding (science) by several hundred years caretakers of animals knew what feeds created the energy level in the specific environment that was needed. For example your theory; if bioavailablity is the primary component that counts, then you should be able to feed a race horse an equivalent amount of any food product and get the same results. Yet it's well known and proven that corn is a hot food, more likely to tie up or founder a stabled horse,

 

Yes it is, and it is known why. Corn is not a "hot" food. Corn is high in simple sugars. that's why they make high fructose corn syrup out of corn. And high carbohydrate load is what contributes to founder. And it has nothing to do with it being "hot". The excess sugars can't be digested in the stomach, pass into the intestine, alter the bacterial flora causing the release of endotoxins which, it is thought, alter blood flow in the hoof and leave the animal susceptible to founder. Oats and barley are lower in simple sugars and higher in complex carbohyrates.

 

Back in ancient times, philosophers believed that disease originated from an imbalance of the four bodily humours (black bile, yellow bile, phlegm, and blood) which corresponded to the four elements (earth, fire, water, and air). They used to bleed people for diseases such as smallpox or anything else that involved fevers (hot) or applied hot cups to cure melancholy (cool). Now we know that fevers are symptoms of bacterial or viral infections and we don't try to cure them by bleeding patients, or feeding them fish.

 

Pearse

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well, i shall try to explain.. but note that i had no expert knowledge or studied traditional chinese medicine (TCM). what i know is what treatments or how it applies to me.

 

Overall, it is a practice and belief that millions/billions of people believe in and still use it today, existing before western science came about.

 

while some has be proven as rubbish, others not so. Like acupuncture, scientists can't find the "qi" spots.. and claim that it's hogwash.. in the hands of a well trained doctor - not quak, i know it works..for i have been cured, or given relief. And now, scientists are finding that there is scientific proof in that, thousands of years of practice in china and asia vs 10, 15 yrs of study by the west?

 

When i get fever, which is a symptom of bacterial/viral infection, one of the way to prevent the body from suffering from other side effects of overheating is to take cool food. like prevention of sore throat, constipation, break out of pimples, dry skin.. extra.. and while taking some medicine to fight the infection.

 

in order to read up on TCM, it's not just a matter of identifying what is hot/cold food and the basis of it. You must understand what the philosophy of the practice is on the human body (and pets now apparently - it's getting very common for dogs/cats to get alternative medicine too). Some people believe, some don't.

 

This has a simple enough article on why some food are heaty and some are cool. Well, it's not based on science - the western kind yet (maybe in another 50 yrs, they might find some chemical/energy.. etc basis), but rather, in the chinese science.. which is so different from the west (like me doing my sums with the abacus vs another similar western instrument.. i have no example except the calculator.. but that's a modern invention).. and for us (believers, it make sense).

 

http://www.shen-nong.com/eng/lifestyles/fo...y_food_tcm.html

 

But really, just like religion.. to each of his own belief, science cannot prove everything.

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