Mia's DNA Test Results Are Back

[Two Labs & Mia]

Hi All,

 

We got Mia's DNA test results back. She's predominately Labrador and, (get this), Bluetick Coonhound! Despite friends, relatives, neighbor's, Vet staff and clients all saying I had a Border Collie, while I told them shelter said Beagle/Lab mix! Little old shelter manager originally told me Lab/Beagle, well Beagles are hounds, so great guess on her part, considering she was dumped and there was nothing to go on, not even the usual guesses at the Mom. :-)

 

Minor mixes include Belgian Shepherd, Shiba Inu. Too funny, well, guess I did end up getting the smaller mixed breed shelter pup I was hoping for. She's right at the 5 month mark and pretty small compared to the Labs at that age. Yay! Ha-guess that explains the odd white ticking that started to come in on her back.

 

 

 

[CMP]

Cool

 

Although I have seen some pretty weird results from those tests, I will say.

 

There is a lab cross that goes to the same pet store we do and he looks more Border Collie than Molly who is BC as far back as paperwork permits tracing.

 

So, weird stuff happens in the wonderful world of genetics, eh?

[Laurae]

Not to take anything away from your results, but these tests aren't always very accurate. The black dog in my signature photo was identified by one of these genetic tests as predominantly a chihuahua.

[gcv-border]

I hear too many outlandish results from DNA tests to really trust them.

 

But it doesn't matter if you enjoy your pup.

[Two Labs & Mia]

Not to take anything away from your results, but these tests aren't always very accurate. The black dog in my signature photo was identified by one of these genetic tests as predominantly a chihuahua.

Oh my Gosh, not the dog marked Shophie in your photo? Pretty big Chihuahua, heehee!

 

Yeah, taken with a grain of salt, but it could be. She's vocal at times, kinda sings and talks when she's playing. She likes to "talk" to her Grandma on the phone, gives several roo roo's when Grandma says her name. The white "ticking" that started coming in on her black saddle area is unusual, even according to the Vet. But ears are pretty short for hound. Seems to have an idea about "herding", nips heals of larger dogs in the yard. Sure swims good, has webbed feet. Does have an unusual shape, the up tuck. Sweet, smart little thing anyway. Am glad she's staying on the smaller side.

 

A friend's Dad used to tell people his dog was a "Spotted Canardly" dog. Some just accepted it, some questioned. When questioned he'd say "he's so many kinds you can `ardly tell what he is". :-) Think that will be my answer when asked about Mia!

[GentleLake]

Well, border collies have webbed feet, so what does that prove?

 

ETA: I've had a couple people tell me my (purebred registered) border collies must be Lab mixes because of their webbed feet.

[border_collie_crazy]

Lol we have this adorable new dog at daycare and I asked his mom what he was..she said "well, we did two DNA tests on him and there was ZERO overlap between the tests.... so we've come to the conclusion that he is a dog" lol

 

Whatever Mia is she's cute!

[Laurelin]

I know a 90 lb short haired black and white dog that came back as almost completely maltese... Since then I'm pretty skeptical about those tests.

[Maralynn]

Hearing these stories makes me want to test my two just for kicks...

[gcv-border]

Hearing these stories makes me want to test my two just for kicks...

Yeah, these are funny stories.

 

Keep your $$ for those beautiful collars you posted. :)

[GentleLake]

I'd love to test Tansy, my accidental lurcher, but with all the stories I hear I figure I'm better off spending the money for some good food for the dogs . . . or just about anything else.

[Tess's Girl]

I have a different experience, most of the DNA tests that I'm aware of that my friends have used for their dogs have been pretty spot on. But I wonder with Border Collies, especially those from a working background. Where did they get the DNA to compare to BCs? If it's only AKC BCs there's a good chance working lines wouldn't register as a BC. Wasn't there a study that discussed how show BCs were as genetically different as a different breed? I thought I read it before but I can't find it now.

[juliepoudrier]

That study wasn't actually about show vs. working bred border collies. It was a behavioral study, and one of the things noted from their results was that the conformation bred border collies appeared as a separate branch, genetically speaking, from border collies as a whole. If you look for posts by SoloRiver, you could probably find that information.

 

ETA: Here's the relevant quote from Melanie (the link to the image is broken, but I will see if I can find the journal article and post a link.)

 

 

Our Border Collie sample included a small number of kennel club registered show Border Collies, primarily of Australasian breeding. All three types of analyses we conducted showed that these dogs were distinct from the rest of our Border Collie sample, which was made up of ISDS and ABCA registered dogs, with the results suggesting distances that are at least as large as those between some dog breeds.

 

I think one thing to remember is that the conformation bred sample was small and consisted mainly of Australian lines, so the differences might be more distinct than they would be if US lines of show dogs had been used, but that's only speculation on my part. It really would depend on the actual breeding behind the show dogs tested.

J.

[Maralynn]

Yeah, these are funny stories.

 

Keep your $$ for those beautiful collars you posted. :)

Yeah, they're definitely getting collars or food or classes or gear long before I'm doing DNA tests. Just one of those "I wonder..." things

[Gideon's girl]

Doggy DNA samples are tested for the genes that are linked to traits, like long legs, blunt noses, specific colors. They are then matching traits with breeds. They are not actually testing for distinct breeds. And even if they were, then a BC would come back as all the breeds it is made up from, as would almost every breed.

 

Mia's vocalizations are just one more "Border Collie" trait, as well as a few other breeds, but the description given certainly didn't sound like hound vocalizations, which are very distinctive, people describe it as a bay.

[Maxi]

Some of my BCs use a few different vocalisations

 

One makes a sort of small slightly high "ooo-ooo-ooow' howl but she does it looking at me with soft eyes and a smile on her face (so I often end up calling her my 'little oow"). Its very different from either a hunting hound pack vocalisation or from that low-pitched, slightly mournful pack howl that I used to hear from one of the dogs of another farmer. He had about 10 working BCs in keneels and when this particular dog would hear his master's truck leave the farm, he would start off & the others would join in. Now that dog has gone, the others don't tend to start of their pack howls unless one of the bitches is in heat.

 

I had another BC who would often make that 'roo roo..rubble rooo' sound to me that may be similar to Mia's vocalisations. She really sounded as if she was attempting to mimic human language.

 

I currently have a young bitch who when she wants me to do something, will turn her head on the side, look slighly quizzical and give a gentle but short 'raw-roo?' .. again as if asking me for something ('like are we going out now?')

 

My other dogs only make 'standard' vocalisations... but I have to admit I do love it when one of my dogs try to 'speak' to me, it just cracks me up.

[CMP]

I find that BCs have a tremendous ability to vocalize. They are, hands down, the most articulate dogs I have ever encountered. I have had none that were mimics / produced human language approximate sounds but all of them have been able to use their voices to communicate.

 

Part of this may well be that my training style, if I have one, is hinged on voice modulation.

 

My dogs are all excellent communicators. The "I need to go pee" bark is very distinct from the "play with me before I atrophy from boredom" bark which is different from the "feed me or I will die of hunger right in front of you". There is the "sorry, my bad" whine, the "I just want to touch you and sit by you" whine and the "these toys are stupid and I want new ones" whine.

 

It's the cocked head and expressive eyes that really do the communicating though.

[Maxi]

I find that BCs have a tremendous ability to vocalize. .....

My dogs are all excellent communicators. The "I need to go pee" bark is very distinct from the "play with me before I atrophy from boredom" bark which is different from the "feed me or I will die of hunger right in front of you". There is the "sorry, my bad" whine, the "I just want to touch you and sit by you" whine and the "these toys are stupid and I want new ones" whine.

It's the cocked head and expressive eyes that really do the communicating though.

Completely agree.. But on top of that a few of mine do these odd additional vocalisation that I described before .. As they seemed to be similar to what the OP described, just thought I'd mention their oddities.

[CMP]

Completely agree.. But on top of that a few of mine do these odd additional vocalisation that I described before .. As they seemed to be similar to what the OP described, just thought I'd mention their oddities.

Yeah, my dad had one that really did sound like he was saying "hello" and "goodbye" and "boss". His voice had tremendous range and he could control it very minutely. They talked all the time. It was very endearing and the takeaway memory most of his grandchildren have of him is <i>Grandpa, talking with his dogs</i>.

 

In fact, I asked him about it once and he said the reason I have never had any of my BCs talk to me is that ... well, *I* talk too much.

 

:/

[Maxi]

Ha ha...

 

. I think my old dog sounds like your dad's, I wish more of mine did it because it is so endearing, but I guess it's just a quirk that a few dogs have (that darn genetic thing again)

[Two Labs & Mia]

Doggy DNA samples are tested for the genes that are linked to traits, like long legs, blunt noses, specific colors. They are then matching traits with breeds. They are not actually testing for distinct breeds. And even if they were, then a BC would come back as all the breeds it is made up from, as would almost every breed.

 

Mia's vocalizations are just one more "Border Collie" trait, as well as a few other breeds, but the description given certainly didn't sound like hound vocalizations, which are very distinctive, people describe it as a bay.

Hi Gideon's girl, you know, I think you are spot on. I thought that Mia's DNA test would help clarify some dominant genes, help guide me as to training, games, health, but I am more confused than before the tests. I came to the same understanding that you did, many breeds make up each breed, so, how would that really narrow things down. :-) She's quite a little mystery, and is still unfolding. Her tail, previously carried in the "C" shape, is now a full out cursive "O", most of the time when she is happy and relaxed. I remember a neighborhood Basenji with a tail like that. Her body is looking more Whippet type all the time, and the head is really small and wedge shaped, as she grows the head hasn't been keeping up. I'm just not seeing the physical coonhound traits, and I know my Labbies pretty well, not seeing much of that either, other than ears and webbed feet. DNA marked predominantly Lab/Bluetick Coonhound, with other minors, who knows how many "breeds" may be in her make up. She's definitely a "different" little creature than we are used too, but really sweet, smart, a fast learner, she will keep us on our toes as we learn to understand her, that's for sure.

[Two Labs & Mia]

That's exactly the type of vocalization I was talking about Maxi and CMP. Labs just don't "say" much, the alert bark for someone in the driveway or near the yard is distinct. The I want to pee/play/go for a swim is pretty much the same bark, hard to decipher. Then the Yipe Yipe once the towels come out of the linen cabinet and they know they are going for a swim, or if we say, "yeah you can go" after picking up the car keys. They just don't vocalize a bunch. None of the 3 full Labs, or the 1 half Lab I had ever did, anyway.

 

Mia doesn't do hound like vocalization, the yodel type I've heard 2 rescues we passed on make. She does almost "talk". Started to say "Mamma" when she's playing with me. I'll ask, "Mamma?", and she'll repeat. DH refers to me as Mamma. When she's playing with Lab Sera, she growls lots, and growls Mamma. So she has her "voice Mamma", and her "growly Mamma" that she says to each of us. She does an odd high pitched cry mixed with a whine, one note, and holds it, if I pick up my purse for something and she thinks I'm getting ready to leave. The roo roo is a main stay of her "phone conversations" with her GMA. :-) Too funny!