Gay Tail

[ClickMeBC]

In my extensive reading and research on the breed before brining home a BC pup, I learned and came to recognize that a low set tail or at least a tail held low when working is desired in a working/herding dog, as a high set or "gay" tail indicates that the dog is either not focusing on his charges or on his job. I understand that it used to be considered a fault, and points were taken off when competing in trials for a gay tail - I'm not sure if that's still in effect but I find it interesting.

 

Just about every BC I've met and worked with has carried their tail low, or at least while focusing intently on something or stalking. I'm not sure whether a gay tail is simply seen in all pups in their immaturity and playfulness or whether it's a hint of a not-so-great working ability(I've never trained a sheepdog ), as Quynn loves to show off his tail(I have no problem with it - In fact, I love it...he's adorable) and flail it as high as he can possibly reach, and curl it over his back.

 

What are everyone's experience with the relation between tail sets and working ability? Do you find the way a dog holds his or her tail has a prominent effect on the way they work, or is it completely insignificant and does it depend on the individual dog?

[Kat's Dogs]

I don't know about the working bit, but Dazzle and most puppies I think have tails that curl over their backs when they are young - of course, if she really focused on something it would drop down low, but most of the time it was up:

 

 

Now she pretty much always has it really low unless she is in "dork mode"

[Anda]

Mine JUST decided to carry his tail lower most of the time, at 1.5 years of age. He still carries it up when he's excited and prancing. He's one happy dog, that's for sure. But lays it down when focusing on a ball, rabit, frisbee. Sorry, again no help on stock work ability. Curious to hear experts' opinions, there have been some simmilar threads in the past, and they're fascinating.

 

ETA: Kat: Ouzo's natural state is dork mode, so that might explain it

 

ETA 2: And to prove the new low tail set, here's a shot from yesterday (doesn't he look just right for AKC?! :D )

 

 

No need to post a picture of him with tail up, since 75% of the ones I've posted before were fitting the profile!

[borderlicious]

Puppies' tail sets lower as they age, I've noticed. When I first brought Eve home, her tail would curl up over her back like my Papillon's. When she was about 3 months old it gradually lowered.

 

I don't think the dog's tail position away from stock has much to do with how they'll work. This is Eve normally:

 

 

This is Eve "working" (cough. stalking some ducks at the park) - tail mostly down.

 

 

And working actual livestock - tail completely gone.

 

 

ETA: I once had someone tell me that when a dog is working stock, if his tail goes up, his brains fall out his ass. It makes sense to me. A dog with a tail straight up and waving around is thinking "play" rather than "work".

[border_collie_crazy]

Mistys tail is carried gaily at pretty much all times, the ONLY time she carries it in a hook is when she is on real stock, and her working ability is fine, working people who have watched her work said she is better then average lol

[WyoBC]

Ok it's not fair to post puppy pictures like that Kat! Just not fair But as far as the tail thing goes, I don't know if I agree with it or not. Black Jack has his tail up most of the time when he's running around, or playing (dork mode) yep he has it too. If he sees a rabbit or anyhting that catches his eye it zips down like Dazzle's tail though. He has pretty good stock ability, even with his tail the way it is. lol.

 

Anda, how does Ouzo get so shiny? I thought Black Jack was shiny but he has nothing to Ouzo.

 

These are the best pics I have of Black Jack's tail right now. It's pretty much hanging down.

 

 

 

 

 

[Moss]

Very interesting discussion

 

I have found that most, if not all, BC pups carry their tails high and over their back - that is nothing to worry about.

 

All my collies seem to have gay tails when playing or gooning around, but as soon as they are set to work their tail drops completely. I was always led to believe that tail carriage indicated how the dog's mind was working - low-set = concentrating, focusing and taking it's job seriously; high set or curling over the back = playing, not concentrating or focusing on work.

 

So far, I have found the above to be true.

[Moss]

ETA: I once had someone tell me that when a dog is working stock, if his tail goes up, his brains fall out his ass.

 

brilliant!!

[RaisingRiver]

When River 'works' agility - because she doesn't play agility no matter how excited a voice or posture I have, she's all business - her tail is down. When she 'works' her frisbee or tennis balls, her tail is down. When she is just hanging with me, happy to see me, or playing with the dogs, her tail is wagging and up. But when she's just walking the dog park or around the house, she carries it low with the signature hook at the end.

 

Diesel's tail is nearly always up and carried high. Except when he's stalking something.... like River or the cats.

[Root Beer]

When Speedy is in "business mode" during a game of ball, his tail is definitely down. But when he is running around with a ball in his mouth chasing other dogs, it goes up.

 

I find that his tail really does say a lot about his state of mind.

[Olivia]

I noticed at the last agility trial how well you can see what a border collie thinks of an activity by his tail. My girl Carlie is all business when it comes to sheep, tail down and tucked. When playing in the house it is up and over her back, relaxed. My boy Griffin is also all business at sheep, tail down and so tucked you can barely see the white tip. Now at the agility trial they were both walking in front of me on our way to their crates. Carlie's tail was up and fluffy over her back and that is how she feels about agility...it's a fun lark, not serious at all (which can get us into trouble on occasion). Griffin's tail was tightly tucked...he is deadly serious about his agility, not fun...serious work! (which can get us into a whole 'nother kind of trouble )

 

I'd have to agree though that if the tail goes up the brains fall out! Soooo funny!

 

Olivia

[Anda]

Anda, how does Ouzo get so shiny? I thought Black Jack was shiny but he has nothing to Ouzo.

 

 

Well, it's a very complicated and labor intensive process. Please get your notebook and start taking notes:

 

Take one dog, get him to all the available parks and lakes and mud piles from October until end of April, and, most importantly, DON'T WASH HIM all this time And brush him as little as he stands it Seriously, I never bath him and very rarely pass the brush through his hair. He's all natural

 

P.S. I do give him one fish oil capsule every day, which he thinks are treats and gulps them with gusto!

[sharkie]

!! wow does he groom himself? clover gets dirty very easily and everytime she gets dirty she knocks on the door and wants to come in

[Carson Crazies]

When my dogs are playing, their tails are typically all up in the air. When they're working stock, their tails are down. June's tail has a tendency to come up on stock - when she's goofing off some, or insecure. I'd say the brain falling out when the tail comes up is very apt for her.

[nowwown]

Cody's tail is down all the time when we take neighborhood walks. To me the walks are fun, exercise, relaxing. To him, I guess they're his WORK.

 

When his tail is down on the walks, he comes across very unfriendly and "stalking" to neighbors and passers-by. Maybe that is a good thing.

 

And when he meets new dogs, his tail is also down and he goes into crouch position. Talk about an unfriendly greeting! Then of course, he's happy and excited to see them and the tail starts wagging like crazy.

[RaisingRiver]

When she 'works' her frisbee or tennis balls, her tail is down.

 

I stand corrected. This morning I kicked the soccer ball for River and her tail was slightly wagging and straight out with the curl at the end. But of interest, every time we play fetch/frisbee her hackles (neck hair & butt hair) are up - sometimes more then others - and only during this type of activity (or when she hears coyotes). The hair thing has been since she was a puppy.

[sharkie]

clover's tail is getting less curled these days and sometimes i catch her with it tucked between her legs. i guess i was inexperienced then but it gave me the impression she was going to have an accident