Pup prices

[aussieacd]

I am curious if it is becoming a normal practice for working breeders to have 2 different prices for pups they breed- one price for pups going to working homes and a separate price to pups going to 'performance' homes. I have recently run into that when inquiring about a litter. The initial price I was quoted was $1200. I politely turned that down and said that I could never pay that for an 8 wk. old pup. When the breeder found out mine was a working home, the pup price was halved. $600-$700 I consider a reasonable fair price for a working bred pup.

 

I certainly respect the right of breeders of dogs to charge whatever they want. It got me thinking, with performance folks paying $1500+ for pups these days, is this starting to be a normal practice? I'd never run into it before.

 

Ann

[Sue R]

Welcome!

 

I have not seen this level of pricing disparity but I am extremely limited in my exposure to what breeders charge for pups. That said, I have heard of breeders selling pups for a slightly discounted price to serious working homes versus hobby/pet homes.

 

I could see someone who produces top-quality working-bred pups knowing that farmers and ranchers can't afford and won't pay those higher prices for pups (which are, no matter how well bred, still an unknown entity until old enough to train and to be proven on stock) charging the lesser, reasonable amount.

 

Perhaps the breeder(s) you are referring to is not interested in selling to performance homes (after all, pups that are not trained on stock will offer no feedback as to the quality of the breeding in terms of producing working dogs). Knowing that performance homes will pay higher prices, the breeder(s) may set the price higher to weed out those that can't or won't pay that sort of price.

 

Without any information about the breeder(s), it would be hard to guess what the motivation truly is - getting whatever money out of a litter that one can, discouraging pet homes and encouraging working homes, and so on.

[C Crocker]

I am curious if it is becoming a normal practice for working breeders to have 2 different prices for pups they breed- one price for pups going to working homes and a separate price to pups going to 'performance' homes. I have recently run into that when inquiring about a litter. The initial price I was quoted was $1200. I politely turned that down and said that I could never pay that for an 8 wk. old pup. When the breeder found out mine was a working home, the pup price was halved. $600-$700 I consider a reasonable fair price for a working bred pup.

 

I certainly respect the right of breeders of dogs to charge whatever they want. It got me thinking, with performance folks paying $1500+ for pups these days, is this starting to be a normal practice? I'd never run into it before.

 

Ann

 

 

Ann

 

The $1200-1500 sounds alot more like AKC type prices breeders ask and get (why I do not know). I wish I could have asked that for my working bred pup litter, then maybe I would have broke even! All my pups were presold, went to good Open handlers, but I seriously doubt they would have thought your prices to be ok. I may have gotten a tad bit more than what I see as the "average" litter for working pups, but not near what you were quoted. And all of my pups had the same price tag.

 

I'd keep looking. I think you found the odd man out breeder, not the norm.

[juliepoudrier]

Isn't it possible that the breeder is simply charging what the market will bear? Are folks who normally buy pups for sports used to paying the higher price? If so, then they might not balk at such a price from a working breeder (if it's what they're used to seeing in the way of prices). Conversely, farm/ranch/trial types aren't used to paying that much and don't expect to pay that much, so if a breeder wants to sell to that type of person, s/he'd have to offer a lower price. I suspect this particular breeder is just asking a price depending on what s/he thinks the buyer would normally expect to pay.

 

Such a practice doesn't raise red flags for me the way pricing by color or gender would. JMO.

 

P.S. I'm not implying that this practice is the norm, but I could see the reasoning behind it from the breeder's POV.

 

J.

[Demon Puppy]

I am kinda from the wrong side of the fence (sports), but I have to say I've seen more drastic pricing sliding scales than that. It makes sense to me that the breeder would try to "work something out" for what they considered an ideal home. If they are breeding for working ability, then sell to a home where the dog never gets its working mettle honed and tested, aren't they kind of spitting in the wind? The effort and thought that went into the breeding is wasted on a dog culled from working before its ability is even known. The danger and downtime for the bitch for the breeding is just lost.

 

Whereas, if they sell to a working home, they get the feedback on whether the breeding is worth repeating, and they get the good word of mouth for their dogs. Also, if they feel they are selling to someone who knows what they are getting into and understands about the work involved in turning a puppy into a useful dog, they are less likely to have to deal with buyer's regret and bad reputation from a dog being ruined by bad training. The person will be more likely to stick with it and work through the inevitable problems, rather than assuming the puppy comes out of the box ready to be wound up and sent off to its appointed task.

 

JMHO

[DeltaBluez Tess]

I sold my pups at the same price HOWEVER one person already bought four dogs/pups from me and they get the family pricing.

 

One person who got a pup from me told me that she had been looking at other pups and they were $1200 - 1500 and that my price was way below them.

 

It does seem like working dog prices have gone up from the $500 a few years ago to $650-750.

 

Diane~

[Sue R]

One could also wonder if this is a situation where someone has more pups on the ground than are selling at that higher price and, when a potential buyer might balk, the price might come down for that certain type of buyer.

 

It is always hard to guess a motivation with little information. However, I have never heard of a reputable working breeder doing this sort of thing and would wonder about it.

 

Good luck finding the right pup! And, you might even want to consider looking for a started young dog, or even a retired trial dog that can teach you - I wish I had done that to begin with instead of starting from scratch with a pup.

 

And we, too, have had working-bred Aussies. They seem to be hard to find nowadays, particularly here in the East.

[Crawford Dogs]

I used to have a border collie that was both mentally and physcially unstable. I'd gotten her from a breeder who charged me $400. She's still producing that cross and has produced many more unstable and violent dogs but she now charges $1000. People seem to see the price, the multiple breeds she produces, and the fact that she's a veterinarian (I've seen her beat dogs so I don't think vet necessarily equals decent person) must mean that they are great dogs. She mostly sells to pet homes and a few performance homes- almost all of them are first time border collie owners. Why do people pay $1000? I guess they think that the more they pay the better it must be- pet stores sell puppy mill pups for over $1000 and people keep on buying them.

My best temperment and best working dog I've ever had is only 16 months old and guess what I paid for him? I paid $500, the price of the stud fee. I don't think the breeder made much money but she did produce a quality litter. In the end I think people will charge what they think they can get. Some people can sell anything and will. You have to research and decide if you think its what you truly want.

[Liz P]

I charge less for close friends and 4H kids, but that is my choice. I've not yet made a profit off a litter, but I never was a very good business person.

[waffles]

I know a person who paid $2,000 for a "mini goldendoodle" (from a puppy mill too) so I definitely think that people who are not knowledgeable about dogs think the higher the price the better the dog. I honestly had no idea that people with pet border collies were paying $1000+. I got my boy for free from a bad situation and he is the best dog. If you want a border collie as a pet I don't see why you wouldn't rescue, even if you were loaded with money.

[juliepoudrier]

Really, though, I think you need to look at the breeder and see where most of the pups are going. If they are mainly going to sport homes, then the breeder is probably pricing them at what sport people are used to paying. As someone else noted, when a working home was found, the breeder lowered the price, for whatever reason, and it could simply be because the dogs are "proven" in the sport world and not so much in the stock world, and so are priced accordingly.

 

J.

[Cynthia P]

I'm constantly amazed by the price of purebred border collie pups. They are sooooo inexpensive. In 1999 I paid $800 for a non show quality Giant Schnauzer. Show quality was $1200 A working Giant Schnauzer puppy was about $1500 (which I should have paid BTW); *I have no idea what they are now however, gollies...golden collies are going for $750 in my neck of the woods; purebred labs $400 (maybe not registered) etc. It sucks

 

I wish i had better contacts inthe sport world and could charge the $$$$ but than again, I wouldn't do it; For the litters i have had I've charged the same prce, working, pet or sport performance home

 

Cynthia

[juliepoudrier]

I think that given that real talent for stockwork is not something that can be trained in, most folks looking strictly for stockdogs will always balk at higher prices. Most dogs can be trained for sports, and although some obviously will be better than others, it's not likely that someone's money will be completely lost on a dog that doesn't measure up to the highest of standards. After all, a dog who routinely knocks down jumps isn't the same thing as a dog who won't do an outrun to bring the sheep up out of a snowstorm....

 

In other words, the "pig in a poke" factor will be a large determiner of prices for working stockdogs. Not so much for the prices of dogs intended for other purposes.

 

If I'm going to spend $1500 on a dog, then I'd expect it to at least be started, which of course would provide me with a great deal more information about the dog's potential for stock work. But a pup--essentially an unknown factor? I'd never pay that. (Talking about purpose-bred dogs here; presumably pet quality vs. show quality and concomittant pricing would be more applicable to show type dogs, or at least dogs not being bred for a specific type of work, the capability for which can't be determined until you've already put a lot of time and money into a pup, as someone else noted.)

 

And if I came across a so-called working breeder who sold most pups into sport and pet homes, first of all I wouldn't really consider them a true working breeder (moving a few sheep around at home doesn't prove a whole lot) and second I wouldn't pay large prices for what are essentially unproven dogs on stock (and this applies to nice imports that are being used to produce dogs that themselves are never worked--I *might* take a chance with such a dog in the first generation if I really liked the parents and especially if there were other, older pups on the ground showing promise here or abroad, but beyond that, never).

 

J.

[Sue R]

And if I came across a so-called working breeder who sold most pups into sport and pet homes, first of all I wouldn't really consider them a true working breeder (moving a few sheep around at home doesn't prove a whole lot) and second I wouldn't pay large prices for what are essentially unproven dogs on stock (and this applies to nice imports that are being used to produce dogs that themselves are never worked--I *might* take a chance with such a dog in the first generation if I really liked the parents and especially if there were other, older pups on the ground showing promise here or abroad, but beyond that, never).

 

J.

I think you hit the crux of the matter in the italicized part of this paragraph. When someone is producing pups to be sold primarily into sport, pet, and (I'm going to add) "hobby herding" homes, they are no longer really a working breeder. They are really a breeder of sport, pet, and hobby herding pups. And I think there are quite a number of large-scale (and smaller-scale) breeders that do precisely this - produce for the non-working market, and reap the benefits of being able to charge premium prices - no matter how good their bloodlines might be (or not).

[Liz P]

When someone is producing pups to be sold primarily into sport, pet, and (I'm going to add) "hobby herding" homes, they are no longer really a working breeder.

 

I see a slippery slope problem here. Many of best breeders and trainers of Border Collies in the USA raise sheep, but have outside jobs to pay the bills. Are they hobby herders? Are the only true working breeders those who make a living from farming exclusively? The best answer I've come up with to give people who ask how to tell a good breeder is to go watch their dogs work. There just isn't any substitute.

[Sue R]

No, I certainly don't mean that a person has to be a full-time farmer or dependent on farming to not be a "hobby herder". Perhaps I should have been more clear but I consider a hobby herder to be someone who "takes their dog to sheep" as an activity for the dog, like agility or any other recreation.

 

If all the people I know who have sheep because they had the dogs were in this category, then some excellent people would (as you point out) be excluded. Some of them, for all I know, don't even have stock of their own of any sort but they do the training and they prove the dogs.

 

I guess I was thinking of the folks that take Fluffy to some place to "go herding", and think a dog moving around some school sheep in a smallish pen is a big deal.

[Liz P]

Sue, that is exactly what I thought you meant, but I know you. Someone who doesn't might have taken your previous message very differently.