"Trauma" Training tips wanted

[Elwood]

My 2.5 yr old chocolate boy has BCC. We live 3 mins away from the beach and have 3/4 of the year in tropical climates. Due to the BCC during most months the only way to run my boy off leash is in and out of the water, even in winter I have to be by a tap.

 

That's the health background, the trauma started after Elwood's 4 th dog attack (all at our beach, all by tourists dogs) the full contact attacks were all by Staffys and pit bulls so flesh was broken yet no stitches required. Some of these attacks I also was bitten. Our last episode was being chased by 2 x leashed bull mastiffs that dragged their owner 200m thru our local park trying to get both of us.

 

What I have done so far to help my boy.

 

Before the attacks.

 

Spent the first 4 weeks with him 24/7 , crated from the first night ...not an issue.

Restricted space during puppy training.

Clicker training from 9 weeks, sit, stay, wait, leave it, ongoing training to this day.

Obedience

From day 1 he has been a biter and I tried every "technique I read, watched or suggested by the first trainer we tried....nothing stopped him nipping my fingers or chewing stuff. He gets bones, an tellers, Kong,and other chew toys when earned.

 

I started off reading The Dog Whisperers Raising good dogs I think it was called, by Caesar Milan before we got Elwood. Used all his techniques and I instinctively stopped as I saw he was building resentment in me.

 

I switched to VICTORIA Stillwells puppy book and tried positive training, which I preferred and incorporated the clicker early on after reading Don't Shoot the dog. Karen Pryor. Elwood started to bond again, Phew!....doing exceptionally well. Very sociable with other dogs, very much a boysterous dog than dominant. Very well behaved and then I taught him to fetch the ball when I broke my foot and everything has been unravelling ever since, or so it seems.

 

After the attacks.

 

Meditate daily to keep my energy calm when seeing these breeds.

Tried the processors of 4 x different trainers.

Read and practiced Emma Parsons click to calm.

Mostly use cooked steak or other high value treat on every walk whenever a dog approaches with clicker.

On the beach off leash, I use the ball to keep his focus away from other dogs, as he will give a warning snap, then if it's a puppy or other untrained dog that pushes the envelope, he will attack.

This method works, yet I have to use a muzzle when the beach is busy and want to learn how to heal my boys trauma.

 

The above is a brief overview I'm relaxed and happy when we are out morning and afternoons.

I work as a massage therapist or I'm in my shed wood working, both situations Elwood is at my side.

 

We don't have any separation anxiety issues, yet he seems anxious Whenever he is interacting on a personal level for eg being petted, yawning and scratching. He refuses to get up on the sofa or sleep on the bed always preferring his crate or be under the bed to sleep. Ears go back and head down when my husband or I gently chat to him.

Most of the time he is a chilled out fella who is content doing his own thing or being near by.

He has a very high prey drive with bits of bark, ball , stick, leaf or whatever is close by.

 

I realise he needs a job to do so we go to agility once a week, shepherding for city dogs whenever the trainer is not on trials.

 

Lately Elwood seems to even get anxious when I begin a game or trick training session.

 

IF ANYONE KNOWS HOW I CAN CHANGE A PIC SIZE ON IPAD 2 please let me know so I can upload a pic.

[Blackdawgs]

Elwood,

 

I feel your pain. I just put my sensitive guy in a reactive dog class because he was becoming defensive after being accosted by more off leash dogs (there is a leash law here--I'm in the US) than I can count. On Sunday, he was charged at a dead run from several hundred feet away by a dog that had broken away from its handler in a REACTIVE DOG CLASS. Thankfully, no physical harm done because my guy and I had the presence of mind to freeze. If my dog or I had reacted, this encounter would have turned into a cluster#$%@

 

Honestly, at this point, I think that the only real action to take is avoiding places where there may be loose dogs. I've gotten into many verbal altercations with the owners of these dogs (not on Sunday because that was an accident and the owner was clearly upset) and I am starting to think that the fun of using these facilities is NOT worth the risk of confrontations with owners and the risk to our dogs. Sadly and unfortunately.

[WickAndArtoo]

I am so sorry you are going through this, we also are dealing with post attack stress, fear, and reactivity in one of our dogs. I have been researching it constantly since and one thing that I've read is that if something stresses him out stop doing it and go smaller/backwards/to the basics because they don't learn in that stressed state. Are there any things that he seems excited and not stressed doing?

 

With our non reactive but fearful BC we were having a hard time training because when he got stressed he would shut down, so our trainer had us play a game where we sat down with treats and a clicker and anytime he offered us ANYTHING (read: moved a paw, sniffed, layer down etc) we clicked and treated. This made him confident and he was rewarded and playing a game that had zero pressure (as you play it more you can start clicking for things that you want to transfer into a trick and name). This might work for you because he could learn that there is no pressure and "everything" he does is fun and "right".

[WickAndArtoo]

I am so sorry you are going through this, we also are dealing with post attack stress, fear, and reactivity in one of our dogs. I have been researching it constantly since and one thing that I've read is that if something stresses him out stop doing it and go smaller/backwards/to the basics because they don't learn in that stressed state. Are there any things that he seems excited and not stressed doing?

 

With our non reactive but fearful BC we were having a hard time training because when he got stressed he would shut down, so our trainer had us play a game where we sat down with treats and a clicker and anytime he offered us ANYTHING (read: moved a paw, sniffed, layer down etc) we clicked and treated. This made him confident and he was rewarded and playing a game that had zero pressure (as you play it more you can start clicking for things that you want to transfer into a trick and name). This might work for you because he could learn that there is no pressure and "everything" he does is fun and "right".

[Sue R]

I can't imagine the level of anxiety that would result from such negative experiences walking.

[Elwood]

Thank you all for sharing your similar experiences with dog attacks.

We have had a total of 6x attacks now and I have used clicker training from 9 weeks old and have used Emma Parsons book to no real change sadly.

 

I have also been trying out "Training Positive"n YouTube which got me to the point where I can run Elwood on the beach when the local dogs are around . If a dog gets in his face and won't back off he will give a warning snap then a bite and will back down when I tell him to "Leave it". A different story when the beach is full of stupid tourists with untrained dogs.

 

So yes we have tried clicker training.

We have been to 2 x different reactive dog classes over the past year and no change.

I have written to "Miami Dog Whisperer"

Shaun at " The Wolf Centre" , as well as Tam at "Training Positive", VICTORIA Stillwell and The guy who owns "Zen dog Training" and only Shaun replied to my many emails saying they couldn't help.

 

I will never give up looking for an answer and will try everything I can.

This is like cancer, there is a cure, I just need to find the right combination of changes to get to my goal.

[GentleLake]

Have you discussed anti-anxiety supplements or meds to see if it wouldbe helpful to bring him below threshhold so that the desensitizatin and counter-conditioning might be more effective?

 

I can only imagine how hard this is for both of you. I agree with others who say that it might be best to avoid the places where repeat attacks are likely.

 

Elwood's very lucky to have anowner who's so committed to making his life better.

 

Best wishes on your journey.

[waffles]

From what I am reading he sounds like a dog that does not want to go to a dog park like setting. Many many dogs don't want to socialize with strange dogs they don't know. I don't see that as a training problem. I don't want to hang out in large groups of strangers and I feel no need for therapy.

 

Both my border collies don't thrive in a dog park/beach setting either. They both are dog friendly but mixing with groups of dogs they have never met, with different play styles, in an intense location isn't their thing.

 

These situations you describe sound stressful for your dog (snapping, biting at dogs is not him enjoying himself). I would suggest finding more positive places to take him to exercise where he does not have to fend off strange dogs, let alone be full on attacked. Maybe go out right at dawn when no one is out or find wooded parks, trails that are cooler and shaded.

[Elwood]

Thank you Gentle Lake, it is a consideration I have been hoping to avoid due to the nasty side effects of anti anxiety mess. Having said that, it can possibly open a window of time for him to create new neural pathways for adapted behaviour.

 

Dear Waffles, Elwood is very much at home at our beach, he is fine with the local dogs, yet won't interact like he use to, I believe due to his stronger prey drive and the frisbee, ball, stick etc.

 

We do go to other places to run alone and we never go to dog parks, all the articles I have read all state that isolation creates a stronger issue being around other dogs...just like we do. So I do mix it up and we walk the streets, go to bushland paths etc.

 

He is a lot better than he was initially, yet does slip at times.

 

I want to see him happy playing with other dogs again and want to learn how to remove the "anchors" of the beach associations with the ball etc without the attacks. We have also tried a calming cap, and that didn't help at all.

 

Every morning, we get up between 5.30 and 6 for our walk/run he always pulls for the beach, I allow it only if the beach is sparse with locals.

 

The BCC causes us to need water for walks in summer as its 60-100% humidity here for most of the year from 6am so in full summer we can't even walk the streets, it's just too hot for him and he collapses.

His brother has been cured of his BCC by going off Nexguard, yet it didn't work for him. We now just use the raw Baltic Amber collar and that works a treat, yet still have the BCC.

[Elwood]

Dear Wick and Artoo, there are many things that excite and not stress him. Fetch and tug always excites him, yet if we call him over for a pat, he gets anxious. He will wake us up in the morning by jumping on the bed giving us a lick, yet if we try to cuddle him he yawns anxiously, so we don't touch him unless he is on his back wanting a belly scratch.

 

A lot of the time he loves clicker training sessions, and others he doesn't want to know...no pattern here.

He loves visitors of the human and dog kind loves our Maine coon "Biggles" the cat and has a love for most men.

 

The other day we were walking along the street and without any warning he jumped across me and nipped a woman on the arm. He hasn't bitten a human since he was a puppy and hasn't since. This was very worrying yet I haven't given it any energy and he has been great with strangers since then.

 

There is a kelpie at agility that always use to growl and try and attack Elwood, I would calmly click and treat him each time it happened, now that dog is the only dog he will willingly play with, they are great friends now. This same training hasn't transpired to other dogs yet.

[GentleLake]

Thank you Gentle Lake, it is a consideration I have been hoping to avoid due to the nasty side effects of anti anxiety mess. Having said that, it can possibly open a window of time for him to create new neural pathways for adapted behaviour.

 

What about some of the non-pharmaceutical products? Not sure what's available in Oz, but here in the US we can get a number of things that contain L-theanine, B vitamins (especially B 1) and things derived from milk proteins (casien).

 

There's a product called Zyklene (with casien I think) available OTC in North America and the UK. Solliquin has mimosa and Amur extracts, a milk based ingredient (probably casien) and L-theanine and I think is only available from vets.

 

Some dogs benefit from melatonin. It's available here in the US OTC though you need a prescription for it in the Britain.

 

So there are alternatives to pharmaceuticals to try first.

[Elwood]

That's wonderful thank you Gentle Lake, I'll look into any made here. Melatonin is not OTC here and we would need a blood test first to determine if he is low so that is also another avenue to investigate.

Cheers.