Low Drive, Medium Drive, High Drive?

[Demon Puppy]

So, I hear the terms "low drive," "medium drive" or "high drive" used to describe dogs. While I have been assuming that "low drive" is more snooze at your feet and "high drive" is more going through the window when it's still shut to get the fly buzzing on the other side, can someone give me an example of each, and an idea of where "medium drive" fits in? I just want to get a feel for what most people mean when they use these categories. Are they different from energy levels? How do they relate to bidability?

[Gloria Atwater]

So, I hear the terms "low drive," "medium drive" or "high drive" used to describe dogs. While I have been assuming that "low drive" is more snooze at your feet and "high drive" is more going through the window when it's still shut to get the fly buzzing on the other side, can someone give me an example of each, and an idea of where "medium drive" fits in? I just want to get a feel for what most people mean when they use these categories. Are they different from energy levels? How do they relate to bidability?

 

 

Honestly, I think it's in the eye of the beholder. There are so many variables in perception.

 

For example, a farmer with a thousand sheep may think his dog is actually pretty mellow. It does a day's work then comes home and snoozes in the kitchen. But take that same dog, stick him in the apartment with a retired couple who have no back yard, and you may have a dog going through the window after flies. A lot depends on the dog, and a lot depends on the situation in which he lives.

 

Of course some dogs are definitely higher energy than others, but what sort of "drive" is the owner thinking of? High drive on sheep? High drive at agility? High drive at something else? A dog that's keen for sheep may not be a great agility dog, and a dog that's keen at agility may not be high drive on sheep. A dog that's keen on chasing balls and sticks may not excel at either sheepdogging or agility. (That's just for instance, not any slur at agility or ball dogs!)

 

In short, four people looking at the same dog at once, may well come up with 4 different places to draw that imaginary line.

 

There. I'm of absolutely no help at all, aren't I?

 

~ Gloria

[rushdoggie]

Honestly, I think it's in the eye of the beholder.

 

 

This...and also a little in the skill of a trainer.

[Demon Puppy]

Okay, no wonder I couldn't tie it down! People keep using those terms like they have some specific, everybody agrees on it meaning, but they just confused me. I just bailed and gave people examples of standard behaviors for the dog so they could fit the dog into whatever they meant by "high drive" or "medium drive"

 

Thank you

[gcv-border]

Yes, as Gloria Atwater so clearly explained, there is no strict definition of each term. Even with my agility friends, most of whom have fairly active dogs, when I say that my BC is medium drive, they look at me like I was nuts since he is so much more driven than their dogs. I also have a friend who, although she thinks he is a great dog, also thinks that he is too much to handle. Of course, when she is over at my house, my dog knows how to pressure her to get constant attention - which reinforces the hard-to-live-with BC stereotype. He does have an off switch, but he is also smart enough to know who the easy marks are and he will try to get away with behaviors I will not put up with.

 

Jovi

[JohnLloydJones]

Of course some dogs are definitely higher energy than others, but what sort of "drive" is the owner thinking of? High drive on sheep? High drive at agility? High drive at something else? A dog that's keen for sheep may not be a great agility dog, and a dog that's keen at agility may not be high drive on sheep. A dog that's keen on chasing balls and sticks may not excel at either sheepdogging or agility. (That's just for instance, not any slur at agility or ball dogs!)

I tend to use the term mostly to describe how much a dog requires stimulation. Low drive is able to stay calm and sane with relatively little mental and physical stimulation. High drive is used about dogs who simply must have lots of stimulation all the time, every day. And medium dive? Well they live in that grey area in between. Even hard working sheepdogs have insanely busy seasons and quiet seasons; they stay calm and mellow, because they can bank up the stimulation from the busy periods to get through the quiet ones. The crazy, hyper, out of their minds border collies are the ones who are starved of all stimulation and have to find their own outlet -- usually undesirable or downright destructive.

[Demon Puppy]

LOL, well, manipulation skills are a whole 'nother country. What inspired the question was someone was thinking about getting a puppy from a repeat breeding of a litter that I have a puppy out of, and was asking (from an agility perspective) whether my puppy was medium drive or high drive. I really didn't know how to answer her, because I think of drive as a collection of things, the intensity of each which can vary separately from the other components.

[Maralynn]

And then you throw in the puppy variable...

 

While each dog has a certain genetic drive potential, drive can be shaped and built (or dampened) by the owner. Kipp was gung-ho for sheep and fixated on cats when I got him. He couldn't have cared less about toys. Now he enthusiastically works for a frisbee and will ignore the cats when we're doing anything with his flying squirrel. This wasn't a natural occurrence - I actively built/shaped his drive for the frisbee and dampened it for the cat.

 

And whatever drive your dog has, it will do you no good unless you can harness it. I think it is a stretch to say crazy, hyper dogs have drive just because they're bouncing all over. What they have is energy. There is potential drive there, but you won't know what it is until you harness/shape it.

[Root Beer]

I think it is a stretch to say crazy, hyper dogs have drive just because they're bouncing all over. What they have is energy. There is potential drive there, but you won't know what it is until you harness/shape it.

 

I concur with that. I know this is taboo, but in this case, it might actually help to think of the word in human terms. When we say that a person is very driven, that isn't a description of his or her energy level in general, but how much desire and motivation a person has toward a certain activity/discipline/etc. Sure, one needs a certain level of energy to put into something to be considered "driven", but a person who is driven isn't usually thought to be hyper, bouncing off the walls, or unable to settle down in most contexts because he or she is "driven". Think of an olympic athlete, for instance.

 

From a dog sport perspective, I would not consider a dog who is running all over an Agility field, unfocused with very little purpose to have any more "drive" to play Agility than I would a dog who went into the ring and just lay down, uninterested. A dog who goes in, is obviously aware of the game, and displays clear interest in getting into the run and then maintains that purpose throughout the run is one that I would say has drive.

 

Most dogs actually have drive to do some things - whether it be to sniff, look at things, play certain games, do certain work, swim, etc. Usually when we talk about drive, though, one is referring to drive for something in particular. And, as Marilynn said, drive can be cultivated and it can be lessened, sometimes quite unintentionally.

 

From an Agility perspective, I consider drive in terms of the dog's desire to play the game. I would say that a dog who requires a lot of work to build desire to play to be "low drive". I would consider a dog who usually wants to play, but needs normally some work to keep his or her head in the game to be "medium drive". And I would consider a dog who will play Agility any time, any where, will ignore almost anything to play Agility to be a "high drive" Agility dog. And, of course, this can change with training, conditioning, and simply from playing over time. Generally speaking, anyway.

 

Might be good to ask your friend what she means by "drive" since different people do use the word differently.

[Demon Puppy]

LOL, oh I would definitely say she has some drive. She destroys the house whenever I go out to the yard where the equipment is without her. If I crate her to work the other dog, she bites at the kennel bars and carries on like a banshee. Probably the biggest obstacle in training her is her rapt interest and enthusiasm, if that makes any sense. However, aside from that, she is quite peaceable and usually content to snooze underfoot. She's affectionate, and playful and seems content and not particularly manic - relatively easy to live with, provided the normal amount of skritching and play is administered.

 

My friend decided that was medium drive. Now I'm kinda scared of what high drive would be.

[in2adventure]

So many great descriptions here! It made me rethink how I look at my two.

 

Lucia "seems" laid back, quiet, and has even been called lazy Dole her out a task and she is 110% and then some, depending on what it is. people are shocked to learn that she rocks on an agility course and can hike 10 miles without a second thought because she acts like an old dog most of the time. She has high drive for the task but is very low energy over all.

 

Grady is a spaz boy. BUSY ALL THE TIME Probably more along the lines of what people think of when they think BC. He is 200% and then some on a task and will treat EVERYTHING like it means life and death to him. He also has an off button and will be very happy to cuddle and watch a movie IF he has been blown out during the day. His mind needs to be more tired than his body for this to happen. High drive, high energy with an off button. Would NOT do well in the average home but is exactly what I want in mine.

 

Pretty interesting to see how everyone looks at drive and energy. I also think it's perspective and depends greatly on environment. I've never gotten a puppy, so I don't even know where to begin to describe that energy.

[rushdoggie]

LOL, oh I would definitely say she has some drive. She destroys the house whenever I go out to the yard where the equipment is without her. If I crate her to work the other dog, she bites at the kennel bars and carries on like a banshee. Probably the biggest obstacle in training her is her rapt interest and enthusiasm, if that makes any sense. However, aside from that, she is quite peaceable and usually content to snooze underfoot. She's affectionate, and playful and seems content and not particularly manic - relatively easy to live with, provided the normal amount of skritching and play is administered.

 

My friend decided that was medium drive. Now I'm kinda scared of what high drive would be.

 

 

Two words for you my friend: Control Unleashed. My pup (who will be a year old in a week) was the same way and he can now lie quietly (vibrating, but quietly) in an open crate or ex pen while I work another dog. I started taking him to CU class as an alternative to obedience class while we worked through his adolescence and we had a great time and focused on self control in the presence of extreme distraction.

[wsp]

It is in the eye of the beholder.

I think of a high drive dog as one who is very keen to work, he can work all day even in tough conditions, my preference.

Low drive is one who will not work for long before getting distracted, or is just as happy to visit with people and dogs as work.

I don't think drive has anything to do with energy level. My dogs are high drive but wonderful in the house. They don't go through windows, or destroy the house, it's just not allowed. That's more of a misbehavior issue. The dogs that are misbehaving while crated or yipping while another dog is working aren't necessarily high drive, in fact some are very low drive once you let them on the sheep.

[Bubba87654321]

How often do BCs need to work? Can BCs go a couple of days without working and just hang out at the house?