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but I wish that before everyone jumped on the don't breed bandwagon, that they remember that some of their peers, and maybe they themselves, do.

 

But I would argue that NONE of them are breeding frisbee dogs/pets. And the ones that do, get chastised for it.

 

I think this has been very civil.

 

RDM

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Can we please keep this civil? I think the O/P is getting the idea. As for breeding, I will say, many folks on these very boards do breed- and they make those decisions based on criteria that they set. No one has ever questioned their ability to discern a breed-worthy animal. I agree that breeding seems like "no big deal" to many dog folks, until they are truly immersed in what it takes, but I wish that before everyone jumped on the don't breed bandwagon, that they remember that some of their peers, and maybe they themselves, do.

I wasn't aware of any lack of civility.

 

As for the breeding issue, what RDM said.

 

J.

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Rick - It sounds like you are interested in doing well by your dog and are willing to take a bit of heat in order to listen and learn.

 

Remember that many of us are adamant because we've all made mistakes of one sort or another when it comes to our dogs.

 

Take your time, check things out, watch for "red flags" in breeders (things like emphasis on color, coat, ear set, eye color, anything AKC or concerning "titles", any disreputable (puppy mill) registries like CKC (Continental Kennel Club, NOT Canadian Kennel Club) or IBCA (International Border Collie Association - started by a group of folks disbarred from ABCA for fraudulent practices), anything that says "champion bloodlines", sports performance or versatility instead of proven working ability) and slick promoters.

 

The best breeders generally have waiting lists and so they don't generally advertise on the internet but rather get a lot of "business" by word of mouth. And, actually, the best breeders don't produce many pups at all. They produce because they want a pup from a particular dog/bitch they own, and make a careful breeding to best stack the odds that the pups will be quality workers.

 

Sometimes, good breeders of working dogs get back young dogs that don't seem destined to make it as stock dogs, and often look to place them as neutered animals in active pet homes.

 

Please do consider rescue. An enormous number of terrific dogs come through rescue for a number of reasons. A responsible rescue is probably the best place to find a suitable dog/pup for an active companion home. They foster the dogs with experienced people, evaluate them, see that they are vaccinated, healthy, and given basics of training and socialization. They have nothing more on their agenda than to find a suitable, forever home for their fosters - not profit or any other motive.

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Mr Liquid, I understand the desire that once you find what you think is a great BC, well, why not then breed her/him and have a bunch more from the same line. Please consider the rescue route also. From my point of view there are so many truly awesome BC's out there that have been abandoned, not because they are bad dogs but because their owners have no clue as to how to raise them and train them. Those abandoned BC's imho make one of the best dogs you could ever find for what your needs are. The key, also imho, is to get your dog from a reputable rescue organization that has evaluated and worked with the dog to help get them socialized for families. The second key is to learn everything you can about raising a BC, getting it exercise and giving it the kind of mental stimulation it needs to keep it from developing behavioral issues. Border Collies can be seriously high maintenance, (LOL it seems like I spend as much time with them as I did my kids before my empty nest,) but the reward is in having a dog that an invaluable member of the family.

 

Owner of two BC rescues in my life and looking for the third! :-)

Good Luck!

-jay

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Mr Liquid, I understand the desire that once you find what you think is a great BC, well, why not then breed her/him and have a bunch more from the same line. Please consider the rescue route also. From my point of view there are so many truly awesome BC's out there that have been abandoned, not because they are bad dogs but because their owners have no clue as to how to raise them and train them. Those abandoned BC's imho make one of the best dogs you could ever find for what your needs are. The key, also imho, is to get your dog from a reputable rescue organization that has evaluated and worked with the dog to help get them socialized for families. The second key is to learn everything you can about raising a BC, getting it exercise and giving it the kind of mental stimulation it needs to keep it from developing behavioral issues from boredom. Border Collies can be seriously high maintenance, (LOL it seems like I spend as much time with them as I did my kids before my empty nest,) but the reward is in having a dog that an invaluable member of the family.

 

Owner of two BC rescues in my life and looking for the third! :-)

Good Luck!

-jay

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If you've done your research on border collies and know all their little quirks and that YES- they need some kind of a job or they will drive you crazy and have decided that this is the breed for you and you want a pup. There are many pups in rescue. Border collies are NOT the only dogs that chase Frisbee's. If you've watched any of the disc championships you will see Aussie's, whippets and a lot of mixed breed dogs. Puppies are also available at rescue homes. I've had 7 border collies myself. Some of them trialed with sheep, one was a pet, most did obedience also, 2 of them made it to the frisbee finals. One of those was unregistered, the other I rescued at 3 years old. He had papers, and was the father of the unregistered one. He was abused and lived in a kennel for 2 1/2 years and he paced because he had nothing else to do. They didn't like it, so they cut the kennel in 1/2. Meaning he had a 3 foot run to live in. After a year I earned his trust and he turned out to be a great sheepdog and excelled at frisbee. So, you have a lot of options here.

My kids were 8 and 10 when we got our first BC. They are now 28 & 30. My dogs played football, baseball, basketball, soccer any game my boys played, there were the dogs. And yes, my youngest son had to bring me my 1st dogs ashes home when he was 25 and he was crying as much as I was. So, they DO make great pets as well as workers.

Right now, my present dog is out of wonderful working lines. He is neutered. I will let people go directly to the source if they want to breed. I am not trialing Usher and he is my service dog. It takes a special "breed" of people to own a border collie- We are pretty strange ourselves. That makes us a little crazy when we see the word of a newbie that mentions breeding- sorry if you got caught in the crossfire- it's just that some of us have rescued so many and seen so many put down. Basically, our job is to talk people OUT of getting a border collie and if you still insist that you want one, you might be one of us. Maybe you are. If so, welcome to our strange world.

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...As for breeding, I will say, many folks on these very boards do breed- and they make those decisions based on criteria that they set. No one has ever questioned their ability to discern a breed-worthy animal. I agree that breeding seems like "no big deal" to many dog folks, until they are truly immersed in what it takes, but I wish that before everyone jumped on the don't breed bandwagon, that they remember that some of their peers, and maybe they themselves, do.

 

"Many" folks on these very boards do breed? I think not. I think you would find that it is relatively extremely few actually, and with very stringent standards for doing so - at least when it comes to the majority that adhere to the board's objectives and philosophy.

 

I think the point of the argument is responsible breeding accompanied by suitable placement of pups/dogs. No one denies the value of quality, responsible breeding of proven dogs and bloodlines. It's what keeps the breed going and, hopefully, improving.

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Take your time, check things out, watch for "red flags" in breeders (things like emphasis on color, coat, ear set, eye color, anything AKC or concerning "titles", any disreputable (puppy mill) registries like CKC (Continental Kennel Club, NOT Canadian Kennel Club)

 

For the record, you shouldn't be finding any Canadian Kennel Club border collies either.

 

RDM

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A plug for the rescue dogs.

 

Karen Wessinger has a dog Lill that she got as a 4yr old rescue. The dog had never seen sheep. They qualified for the USBCHA National Sheepdog Finals at Gettysburg this year and had a very pretty run in the first round to qualify for the semi-finals where they had another nice run and ended up in 26th overall. Their run caught my attention initially because Karen was so quiet at the post that I thought she wasn't using any commands at all. She was and the dog was hearing them just fine but the run was smooth and calm.

 

Lots of good healthy dogs given up to rescue because, unlike Mr. Liquid, many new owners don't do their homework beforehand or else do their homework and then ignore good advice when it doesn't suit their preconceived notions of what they were going to hear.

 

Pearse

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Rick, of the three BC's I've had in my life the only one who came from a breeder, (from Texas), is the only one who had physical issues. She developed a limp on a run around eleven months which we had x-rayed to show HD in both hips. So much for all the assurances/guaranties from the breeder. 6K worth of surgery later all seems well and she's just more than I could ask for in a canine friend. She runs 30-40 miles per week and has returned to agility but I've got to tell you that I'll NEVER get a breeder dog again. The dogs I've rescued seemed to know the change in their situation and were grateful and extremely loyal in return. Yeah, I could be anthropomorphizing a bit here but I'm convinced, there's lots of really great dogs out there waiting for homes.

 

Hope you find a great one!

-jay

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For the record, you shouldn't be finding any Canadian Kennel Club border collies either.

 

Absolutely, RDM. But when I made a reference to CKC, I did not want it confused with the Canadian Kennel Club. I did not mean to imply support for the Canadian Kennel Club (or any other conformation registry). Since the Canadian Kennel Club can't register Border Collies at the current time (and hopefully never will be able to do so), it should be a moot point.

 

The Continental Kennel Club, on the other hand, exists for the sole reason of supporting irresponsible breeding and does include "Border Collies" in their operation.

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Another plug for rescue dogs:

 

In my home town, a regional frisbee competition is held each year. The competition draws professional teams, as well as amateurs. Last year's winner was a Border Collie who had been rescued by a private owner; the "amateur" beat the pros hands down. (Or should I say "paws down"?) So, you see, you can find what you're looking for by giving a loving home to a needy dog.

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Our only purebred dog (although I have to say we didn't buy him, we found him) is the one with the most physical problems. Not to push you in one direction or another, but if you are half as patient as you have been in finding a good breeder, you will have no problem finding a great puppy in a rescue.

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I may be remembering incorrectly, but wasn't Susan Carpenter's Rose also a rescue? She placed 13th in the double lift finals. I may well be incorrect but I thought that's the dog I met under the tent who was a rescue. Perhaps I'm confusing her with Karen Wessinger's Lill.

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Checking with DixiesDad :D now you all can smile.

Hey, which of those darling little pups catches your eye? Over in the picture gallery, there are lots of votes for each one. I can't decide, they are all just the sweetest little devils. I hope it works out for you to get one of them, so we can watch it grow up. You would of course be required to sign a contract that you would post pictures here at least monthly!

 

A little thread hi-jack here....Pearse, I would love to hear more about Lill. I saw her at Soldier Hollow and was fascinated by her story as a rescue who hadn't even seen sheep until she was four years old. Daisy is a rescue, too, and though she'll never be a Lill, I am still quite fond of her. :rolleyes: I took a huge number of pictures at SH, but I am pretty sure this is Lill:

 

Lill.jpg

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speaking of posting pictures, :rolleyes: I work for HP and have access to amazing resources so last week when the family decided to get a dog I bought a family collie site, I also used it during a training class I had to teach to some new employees. One rule of mine is that I never use my personal info so I bought and setup a site without using my info

 

floridabordercollie.com

 

Don't mind any of the text, photos, anything on the site except for the logo. It's loaded with fake crap until I sit down and add my family stuff and start posting my new dogs photos.

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For the record, you shouldn't be finding any Canadian Kennel Club border collies either.

 

Unfortunately, after September 1, 2007 you might :rolleyes:

 

CANADIAN KENNEL CLUB CLUB CANIN CANADIEN

Synopsis of the June 2007 Board of Directors Meeting

2

8. The CKC will use the standard of the Country of Origin (UK) for the Border

Collie, until such time as the Canadian Border Collie Association publishes

a standard for the breed that is suitable for the use of Conformation

judges

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