HJTRAS Posted June 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 The sad thing is....I actually find this really sad. I read the post and knew immediately where it would go. And although I also can't seem to get my head wrapped around the connection between Prozac and the pup obviously being somewhat uneasy around the ball,I think maybe there would have been a bit gentler way to point to a chance of nonsense down the road. Especially since, despite the previous posts that seem a bit not so mainstream, I can't shake the feeling that this was an off the cuff post by someone that truly seems to enjoy the new pup and maybe is trying to share and find a way to share the fun. If maybe in a slightly different way? I get That its like wow crazy pup throwing things around biting being insane bring the ball in and wow she sits and stares. So Prozac. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chene Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Okay...but I'm still not seeing any indication that you are listening to the information being given. The less you focus the forum/people and the more you focus on just getting what you can out of it, the better the forum and people will become. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemsMom Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJTRAS Posted June 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Okay...but I'm still not seeing any indication that you are listening to the information being given. The less you focus the forum/people and the more you focus on just getting what you can out of it, the better the forum and people will become.not exactly sure what I am not listening to. I did not see anything posted here other than try to break her natural ability and I don't believe in that. So other than that what am I not listening to. Example please . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chene Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Did what I said about border collie obsessiveness make sense to you? Could you explain why you think it is not a serious problem? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJTRAS Posted June 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 well her only obsession is me. so if I can catch a break with a old basketball I will take it. if you ask about obsession well yes. she obsesses me constantly. when I leave for work both paws and teeth latched to my leg. when I am gone she tears up anything she can find of mine then cries over it. yes her obsession is me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Honey, I'm one of the most easy-going people on this forum and you've managed to impress me with your short fuse and willingness to be confrontational.The tea and scones remark was totally out of line, especially given that it followed a remark from Sue Rayburn, who not only knows border collies, she counts on them for the daily operation of her farm, managing her sheep and cattle. When people tell you something here, it's because they know the breed. The people here run the spectrum from small farmers to sheepdog and cowdog trialers to people who train border collies for a living, and some who've simply lived and worked with the breed for years if not decades. There is a wealth of knowledge on these boards.The sad thing is that you've managed to come across as both reactive and adversarial. Your post about collies usurping the border collie name sounded as if you were angry there was any other dog using the "collie" name - and gave every impression that you don't know the border collie breed. Finding humor in a dog staring at a ball for a full 20 minutes is no more funny than laughing at a child repeatedly banging his head on a wall. It's not healthy behavior. It is not to be encouraged. It could become a thing he does to the point he can't do anything else if a ball is in sight. But you're now saying it's a convenience to you, so you don't mind if your dog develops an obsession, so long as it gives you a moment's peace.By the way, if your dog is tearing things up and freaking out when you leave, that's not obsession. It is called separation anxiety. You should learn about that, because it's not healthy, either. There are plenty of discussion about separation anxiety on this forum,too.Best regards,~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chene Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Okay. I suppose I don't understand why her being obsessed with you stops her from being obsessed with the ball. And she is clearly obsessed if she is just sitting there staring at it. The problem is that often if you let a border collie fixate on something like that, they will start to do it more and more until it gets to the point that it is seriously interfering with your normal relationship. It is much harder to stop an obsession once it's at that level. If you wanted, I'm sure you could get some fantastic suggestions for calming your puppy down in other, healthier ways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RemsMom Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 yes her obsession is me. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJTRAS Posted June 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Honey, I'm one of the most easy-going people on this forum and you've managed to impress me with your short fuse and willingness to be confrontational. The tea and scones remark was totally out of line, especially given that it followed a remark from Sue Rayburn, who not only knows border collies, she counts on them for the daily operation of her farm, managing her sheep and cattle. When people tell you something here, it's because they know the breed. The people here run the spectrum from small farmers to sheepdog and cowdog trialers to people who train border collies for a living, and some who've simply lived and worked with the breed for years if not decades. There is a wealth of knowledge on these boards. The sad thing is that you've managed to come across as both reactive and adversarial. Your post about collies usurping the border collie name sounded as if you were angry there was any other dog using the "collie" name - and gave every impression that you don't know the border collie breed. Finding humor in a dog staring at a ball for a full 20 minutes is no more funny than laughing at a child repeatedly banging his head on a wall. It's not healthy behavior. It is not to be encouraged. It could become a thing he does to the point he can't do anything else if a ball is in sight. But you're now saying it's a convenience to you, so you don't mind if your dog develops an obsession, so long as it gives you a moment's peace. By the way, if your dog is tearing things up and freaking out when you leave, that's not obsession. It is called separation anxiety. You should learn about that, because it's not healthy, either. There are plenty of discussion about separation anxiety on this forum,too. Best regards, ~ Gloria my concern is a border collie is not a dog that everyone can handle few actually. so the name collie people think lassie. They get a BC and then its a shelter dog. So After having one and seeing all the BC shelters its was sad because they are a loving smart dog that takes a lot of patience. The Basketball was no biggy she popped it after 22 minutes. Yes her obsession with me and separation anxiety has been a struggle and trying to make it better for her. regardless its very strong and even the other dogs in the house have a hard time snapping her out of it. Trust me I appreciate info but you can be the president of the USA if you talk down to me or act like a prick I will stand up and react. will not tolerate being talked down to. I treat people like I would like me to be treated or treat them like they treat me its there choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 I treat people like I would like me to be treated or treat them like they treat me its there choice. If that is something that you are striving to do, you might want to re-think equating the encouragement of obsessive behaviors with the use of pharmaceuticals that some of us rely on to give dogs who suffer from severe issues such as anxiety, noise phobias, ocd, extreme separation anxiety, etc. an acceptable quality of life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 my concern is a border collie is not a dog that everyone can handle few actually. so the name collie people think lassie. They get a BC and then its a shelter dog. So After having one and seeing all the BC shelters its was sad because they are a loving smart dog that takes a lot of patience. The Basketball was no biggy she popped it after 22 minutes. Yes her obsession with me and separation anxiety has been a struggle and trying to make it better for her. regardless its very strong and even the other dogs in the house have a hard time snapping her out of it. Trust me I appreciate info but you can be the president of the USA if you talk down to me or act like a prick I will stand up and react. will not tolerate being talked down to. I treat people like I would like me to be treated or treat them like they treat me its there choice. And around and around and around we go... Dude...dudette.....go grab a Miller light, pop one of them Prozacs and PLEASE.... chill the F out.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Hjtras- a 'troll' isn't just an insult or something that means 'Oh I don't like this person'. It's a specific word for someone who comes on to a forum and attempts to create a reaction by irritating the posters- the more posts they can get back the happier they are. It's not a term of abuse, it's a description of a certain type of behaviour. If someone who is trolling is responded to they will continue to try and keep it going as long as possible, that's why it's important to identify them (though it can be difficult). And it is not stalking to google someone to see if they have a history of trolling, it's normal- like calling an employer for a reference on a job application. Trolling- "The art of deliberately, cleverly, and secretly pissing people off, usually via the internet using dialogue." Stopping a dog obsessing isn't breaking her natural ability, and if all it did was give people some peace and quiet there would be no problem with it- heck, who wouldn't want that? The issue is it can be harmful for the dog. It doesn't matter how strong a bond the dog has with the owner, how well trained they are, or how much exercise they get, it has to do with the way the dog's brain works. Dogs can have to go through years of training and medication to get over this. It's a lot easier to nip it in the bud (read Moabam's post here, her dog stopped eating, threw up constantly, and lost 10lb chasing shadows). She has popped the basketball but that doesn't mean the problem's over. You wouldn't let her do other things that were harmful to her, like eat dangerous foods- why let her do this? People don't know who you are. It's not personal in that way. But it's exactly that that makes people cautious. People are responding to your words- that's all we have to go on. No-one is saying or thinking "let's call hjtras a troll and give him crap", they are responding to what you write, and that's all anyone has to go on. That makes misunderstandings easier (because it's written there's no tone, no facial expressions.) If you are hurt by something someone says the best thing to do is not mention it, and respond to the good advice you get. The best way to prove those people wrong is by responding to the good advice, and showing yourself willing to consider it- because trolls don't do that. Standing up and reacting can be good off-line, but online ignoring what you don't want and responding to what you do is sometimes the best thing you can do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 I suppose that If I have had my first border collie for 6 weeks makes me naïve then fine but so as you said I am a free game ignorant victim of your forums ridiculous comments. So name one ridiculous comment I made Just frustrated with this forum and it complete rudeness. The way I see it is that you keep saying things like "border collies are harder or don't respond as well as other kinds of dogs" (not an exact quote by any means, but meant to illustrate a type of comment) that show that you really don't know much about the breed. Honestly, I'm not going to go back through your posts to find direct quotes, but the letting the puppy chew on a rope to get her to walk on a leash and this about equating what may be fear and/or obsessive behavior with Prozac (which is used for very different medical/behavior situations) are two examples. When we point this out and tell you about the potential problems that can arise as a result, you ignore those comments altogether, and then just post something else in the same vein. I can speak only for myself, of course, but I've been hoping that you'll engage in some sort of meaningful dialog with the people here about these things. I haven't seen any of that yet. Like I said, I don't like the troll comments and find them to be inappropriate and offensive, but if you step back and look at the situation I think you're doing a lot to bring it on yourself by not participating in a conversation with people who are trying to offer some insight based on experience, or for that matter, even acknowledging them other than to blow them off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 it breaks my heart that people here are so rude when all I want is info. Everything you do is wrong and your a idiot. I have not been rude to you yet you have grouped me and everyone else together and accused us of knowing nothing and being out to get you. I post a lighthearted, sarcastic response (that agreed with what you had sarcastically said) and you got huffy about that. You say that you don't like being talked down to but you're doing doing it to others and expecting them to just take it. When people give you good info, you seem to get offended pretty quick. Yes, people here can be abrupt. Yes, it can seem offensive at times (usually because people care more about the dog then the person - it happens on dog forums. Sheesh, it's happened to me on different forums). But honestly, there is a heck of a lot of knowledge and experience about the breed here. But if we don't affirm or agree with something you say you seem to brush it off "I'm a good owner, you people are all clueless and picking on me" People aren't saying you're a bad owner. They're saying that you're making some rookie mistakes with your pup that may cause issues in the future. And it seems like you think everyone is picking on you for pointing those out. I'll throw something else out that may be taken the wrong way. I won't let my pup run for hours at a time. I let him romp/wrestle/run for 10 minutes before calling a time out. He's a pup, he has no clue when he's had enough. He gets short bursts of playtime, followed by hanging out with me followed by crate time for rest. Because when he's older I want a dog with sound joints who knows how to settle. You can take that advice or leave it. Just don't come back and tell me I'm clueless or picking on you for saying it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 my concern is a border collie is not a dog that everyone can handle few actually. so the name collie people think lassie. They get a BC and then its a shelter dog. So After having one and seeing all the BC shelters its was sad because they are a loving smart dog that takes a lot of patience. The Basketball was no biggy she popped it after 22 minutes. Yes her obsession with me and separation anxiety has been a struggle and trying to make it better for her. regardless its very strong and even the other dogs in the house have a hard time snapping her out of it. Trust me I appreciate info but you can be the president of the USA if you talk down to me or act like a prick I will stand up and react. will not tolerate being talked down to. I treat people like I would like me to be treated or treat them like they treat me its there choice. My point was that the sheer level of your upset in that discussion was befuddling to say the least. It was like someone being outraged that German shepherds are called "shepherds" when they are nothing like Australian shepherds, or that Staffordshire terriers are called "terriers" when they are nothing like Yorkshire terriers. It was so mind boggling, in fact, that many of us really thought that you were making that post just to get a rise out of us. Most people don't confuse border collies - which are everywhere on TV - with Lassie collies which are rarely seen, these days. The reason so many BCs are in shelters is that TV and movie BCs look so easy and wonderful, but then people are overwhelmed by their energy and intellect. It has nothing to do with Lassie. However, your response to our replies was to get increasingly upset, until some of us managed to quote enough of the historical record to - hopefully - set the record straight. The word "collie" way predates the border collie breed. Having thus startlingly demonstrated your lack of knowledge about border collies, you have continued to show it by posting things like how your dog stared for 20 minutes at a single object and you found it funny, or making smart aleck comments like, "Soft crate for a border collie. Put a camera on that, be fun to watch the destruction." But when we try to point out something that we think you should know and that would be helpful for your dog, you go on the defensive. If you wish to be treated the way you treat others, I'm afraid that's kind of what you've got. Since we can't hear your voice or see your face, it's easy for us to read your words as being testy, defensive, irritable and annoyed. It gives us every sense that you don't want to hear anything informative and you don't want to learn anything new about border collies. You sound as if you just want to post stuff about your dog and have us nod and smile and agree. Even if that stuff makes knowledgeable border collie people go, "What the heck?" Frustrating to say the least. ~ Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OurBoys Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 The Basketball was no biggy she popped it after 22 minutes. FYI people, a Border Collie puppy can not pop a basketball. JJ weighs 52 lbs. I sometimes refer to him as having "Jaws of Steel". He has had the same basketball for years. You're being played. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 I put the troll pic in a reply because virtually every post I've seen from you is inflammatory. You are acting like a troll, whether you mean to or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B Point Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 Man....I love this forum. Really,, all you folks are awesome. Tio is still alive and hanging on because of the advice and support I've received from you all. Just letting you know how much some of us newbs appreciate all you offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chene Posted June 26, 2014 Report Share Posted June 26, 2014 I agree wholeheartedly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJTRAS Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Thank you for all the generous replies I have studied them and taken in some good information. I do not agree with everything but I appreciate the input. My border collie's stare could be an issue sense she makes eye contact with our terrier to the point he falls over hypnotized. All is well my Girl Dezi keeps things in check. She is always on alert. even Dublin the giant lab is giving things (rocks) to the little girl. We where outside today and we lost track it was getting dark. Dublin freaked when he could not find her. He ran road side and searched and made sure she did not go near. All the dogs have a NO ROAD command and they understand it very well. So Dublin did not feel the little BC had command of that yet so he made sure she was not near the road when he could not see her. BTW it was not a real basketball but real ones Dublin would crush them and has instantly. Pops a football in a second. so yea we are careful with him around the puppy but he is really stepping up at this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJTRAS Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Also Gloria I am sorry I offended You. Yes my BC would make a soft crate history faster than I could imagine. I hate crates it is just a way to jail a dog when you decide you cant give them attention. I would never crate a dog. ESP A BC. My baby needs attention and to create her would be punishment she could not understand. So I am not a crate person. And yes if I put her in a soft crate wow . But if you are a crate person no biggy they would get the confinement. Just I don't confine my pets. not saying its wrong just saying its not my style. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloria Atwater Posted June 27, 2014 Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Thank you for all the generous replies I have studied them and taken in some good information. I do not agree with everything but I appreciate the input. My border collie's stare could be an issue sense she makes eye contact with our terrier to the point he falls over hypnotized. Uh ... no. Dogs cannot hypnotize each other. Perhaps your terrier simply responds to her by lying down, because a prolonged, direct stare can be construed as a challenge among dogs and your terrier is quite generous to allow her this and react by lying down. Things like this are why we respond rather sharply to you. You don't know the breed and you draw some befuddling conclusions about them. As for crates, no, they are NOT a way to "jail" a dog. My dogs are grown and have long since graduated to the freedom of the house. But both my border collies choose, of their own volition, to sleep in their crates at night with the doors open. A properly trained crate is not a jail. It's a den and a safe, private place that the dog learns to love. It's okay to not agree with crates, but practicing some diplomacy might be to your benefit. You'd raise a lot fewer hackles if you learned to qualify your posts with things like, "crates aren't for me," rather than stating that crates are "just a way to jail a dog when you decide you cant give them attention." We're not lazy dog owners! Some of us actually have to leave the house from time to time, and we prefer not to leave our puppies free to chew wires and electrocute themselves, or eat entire swathes of carpet or linoleum and end up in the vet hospital. Regards, Gloria Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJTRAS Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 Diplomatically, ok I am being fair. You can crate your dogs if you like that's great its all good. I just choose not to . When I look at a dog in a kennel or crate I see a sad face. When I see my dog running around I see a happy Face and angry face and a ton of other emotions. but a sad face not so much. Not to mention dogs in a crate always seem fearful and aggressive.. IF it works for you great I am happy for you. I would rather wake up in the morning seeing me puppy wagging her tail begging me to get up than a in a crate asking when instead of knowing when. Its just how I feel about it sorry if you find it wrong . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HJTRAS Posted June 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted June 27, 2014 so this is befuddling. the BC stared at the Terrier. I watched his eyes looked funky almost crossed in a daze and then the BC jumped on him. So no she did not hypnotize but it was befuddling . Not judging just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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