Raw diet not working right now

[mbernard2424]

A lean meat that you haven't mentioned using is rabbit. It's easy to raise, and often easier to buy. Border Collies do remarkable well on them.

 

I forgot to mention rabbit as a suggestion. I get mine from a show breeder: they are "culls." It's a win-win situation for both of us. They get to breed more frequently (for show rabbits) and have an outlet for the ones that are not show quality. Unfortunately, many rabbit breeders are not open to this type of arrangement preferring to cull in the new borns rather than sell them for animal food.

 

The fur might provide an extra "filler" for your hungry beasts. I have found a lot of dogs won't eat them whole, but given that you have a "pack" the pack mentality may get them eating them whole.

 

BTW, Bill, my Fern (Inferno) says HI! to your Fern. Weaning and raising puppies on a raw diet = rocket scientists!

 

Michelle

[Guest SweetJordan]

*Some* dogs may need some carbs to deal with this - my vet and I have been in great discussion for some time about certain lines/dogs requiring carbs for maxium health. Genetics driven? Possibly. Border collies have been maintained for centuries on cheap mutton, milk soaked oats, fish, and whatever rabbits/small game they could nab. When I have a "starver", it's very interesting to see them change if fed even 2 tbsp of soaked or cooked oats a day for a week. Is this genetic? or ill health at some molecular level? That remains to be seen.

 

Juliet de Barlcai Levy's books are a very old, very interesting read on natural animal health. She even mentions giving her dog an occasional can of corn....

 

I still feed vegetables. The dogs like them, and pick their own if they get a change. I used to get all worried about the "rules" of raw feeding and now I just do what works for us. My dogs do best when they get a full variety of stuff.

 

A lean meat that you haven't mentioned using is rabbit. It's easy to raise, and often easier to buy. Border Collies do remarkable well on them.

 

My dogs were eating grain free/no starches. Then Riley the bottomless pit came along(and she'd rather do an activity than eat). I always provide small amounts of veggies so she did have a minimal amount of carbs in her diet. But then I decided to add a little bit of oats to her food(some days she will get potato instead), and I think she does better w/ it. It's still hard to keep weight on her, but I think she feels more full. Just adding more food didn't seem to do the trick and in fact I had to reduce it as her stools became affected. At first I wasn't too sure about doing it on a daily basis, but then I thought if it works for her that is what we will do.

I have heard about using corn on occasion. I have yet to try it, though I have thought about it. I did give Riley some corn a couple of times in the summer that I cut off the cob from dinner. She did fine w/ it, though I won't fed it to my labby because it upsets his stomach.

[Bill Fosher]

Hi everyone and thanks for all the suggestions.

 

It's interesting to see what people's ideas about various meats are. Becca, if the meats I'm feeding got any leaner, I would have to add fat. There's virtually no fat on the mutton (they tend to carry it in the kidney-pelvic area, and I strip that out for the guard dogs) and the pork necks are very lean as well. The chicken backs are probably the fattiest meat that's in my power rotation right now. I doubt if I could buy leaner meat.

 

I only know one local source of rabbits, and they are all sold for human consumption.

 

Oats, rice, sweet potatoes, regular potatoes, cabbage, broccoli, green beans, carrots, and pumpkins are all accepted by various dogs in various amounts. In the summer when we're eating sweet corn (and sometimes Lynn will put away a half dozen ears on her own) we give the dogs the cobs to chew up. They eat grass and all sorts of stuff in season. My Australian shepherd used to harvest her own blueberries, raspberries, and grapes (and lived to be 14 despite it).

 

But here is the thing that we've found that really does the trick. We take all of our edible veggie scraps -- carrot and potato peelings, broccoli stems, lettuce cores, whatever -- and wilt them in bacon grease. The dogs snarf them up and feel full. They're not swimming in grease -- just enough to give them a flavor that's irresistible.

[1sheepdoggal]

Hey Bill, One of my dogs is a real fresh corn lover. We had pulled corn from the garden last summer and had it on the front porch cleaning it to freeze, and every now and then Id notice one of the dogs come up on the porch, but didnt pay much mind to what he was doing, till I went to get the water hose, and found where he had 8 cobs all stacked neatly in the side yard, all completly eaten down not a kernal left on them eaten as good as my 12 yr old could have ate them. He accompanied us to the garden every evening, and delighted in what he could find. Beans, tomatoes, we even saw him sampling some peppers once, but I dont think he enjoyed them as much once he got hold to a really hot one. But after hearing how your dog was gathering her own berries, Im not so much wondering now, where all my berries went. Good idea about throwing all the veggie leavings together and putting a bit of bacon grease on it, I think Im gonna try that with mine, I think they'll like it.

[mbernard2424]

But here is the thing that we've found that really does the trick. We take all of our edible veggie scraps -- carrot and potato peelings, broccoli stems, lettuce cores, whatever -- and wilt them in bacon grease. The dogs snarf them up and feel full. They're not swimming in grease -- just enough to give them a flavor that's irresistible.

 

Geez Bill, I think you may have watched the movie Babe too many times and are confused as to what is in your kennel. What are you feeding the above to, the black and white creatures with all the pointy teeth in their mouths and a digestive system to match or pigs who might have the ability to digest and utilize those veggie scraps? I think maybe you should get yourself some pigs, feed them the veggie scraps, without the bacon grease of course, and then butcher the pigs and feed them to your dogs.

 

Just a thought ...

[Bill Fosher]

Hi Michelle,

 

I have never watched more than a few minutes of Babe because I was sickened by it.

 

I think you and I have been around a time or two about whether canids eat grains and veggies. Maybe it wasn't you But I know what I've seen from watching coyotes, my own dogs, and the dogs of others. They are opportunistic and pretty omnivorous. I've watched coyotes harvesting oats and corn, and their scat in August shows that they love blackberries. I've picked up enough coyote kills to know that the thing about coyotes not eating stomach contents is bunk. They don't eat them first, but they do eat them.

 

Right now, even if veggies and grains are bad, I think they are not as bad as dog feces and rotten balage. I know it doesn't fit with the raw purists' world view, but it fits with the reality on the ground as I have seen it.

 

Most importantly, it seems to be working for my dogs. Maybe they are part pig.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Dogs and pigs DO have a lot in common.

 

They have both been domesticated a long time, and probably followed similar paths to domestication (camp followers/trash eaters).

 

They are both considered unclean in many societies for that reason, and have odd pariah/usefulness status among the majority of the remaining human population.

 

They both have a wide range of variation within their species - porcines can be found that are highly successful in great varieties of environments, while canids historically have adapted to and thrived on the most un-carnivorous diets imaginable.

 

They are both extremely clever, work well integrated into human societies, and adapt physically at a rate that is a mere flicker on the evolutionary scale.

 

Border Collies are a case in point. Sheepdogs didn't have a meat-rich diet. Period. Don't tell me about hunting, either, because dogs found poaching, even rabbits, were shot. Heck, they hung people for hunting rabbits not too long ago.

 

I believe that one should start with the ideal (a meat-rich diet, balanced with bones, offal, and small amounts of vegetable matter if one can't literally feed prey model). We should be as adaptable as our opportunistic dogs, however - considering that possibly a particular dog might need corn, or more soluble fiber, or bacon grease, or something else that genetics has adapted it to thrive best on.

 

ETA: Life on a trash dump. Wraith-thin people, underweight cattle -- and plump pigs and dogs. Warning, slightly disturbing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tluogv9EGTQ

[mbernard2424]

Dogs and pigs DO have a lot in common.

 

Anatomically they have little in common. While dogs may have been domesticated a long time, physiologically, they are still very much like wolves. Their teeth and brains are smaller, otherwise, their digestive systems are the same.

 

Border Collies are a case in point. Sheepdogs didn't have a meat-rich diet. Period. Don't tell me about hunting, either, because dogs found poaching, even rabbits, were shot. Heck, they hung people for hunting rabbits not too long ago.

 

And who is it that has decided that sheepdogs do not need a meat-rich diet? You with all your fast knowledge? Do you think maybe the idea that sheepdogs (and is there a difference between a "Border Collie" and a "sheepdog") do not need a meat-rich diet is because you (and others) cannot afford to feed a meat-rich diet so you fill your dogs up with inexpensive additives?

 

How you are describing feeding your carnivores is no different than how pet food companies manufacture their crap-in-a-bag. Get some inexpensive cuts of meat, then throw in whatever else you have left over from human consumption. The only difference is pet food companies cook and process the food to death, put it in a colorful paper bag and viola, you have 100% nutritionally complete food for a dog.

 

Not in my book.

[juliepoudrier]

Michelle,

Why is it that when someone disagrees with you, your only recourse is to turn to nastiness? We all understand how you feel about raw feeding. Why it bothers you if others choose a slightly different route to feeding their dogs just mystifies me. Here we have examples of people whose dogs seek out and eat vegetables and fruit. They do it by their own choice. Now perhaps all these owners should be actively saving their dogs from themselves, since the dogs are apparently too stupid to know they aren't ever supposed to let anything but the finest meat pass their lips.

 

It so happens that the shepherds who had the biggest role in creating border collies/sheepdogs certainly couldn't afford to feed them the best cuts of meat, so they ate whatever the owner could afford to feed them, as described by Becca. The breed was developed on just such a poor man's diet. Good on you for having the financial resources to feed your dogs only the best of the best (although it does you no credit to constantly sneer at other people's choices). Has it improved their performance in whatever venues you're pursuing now?

 

I agree with Bill--I'd rather feed my dogs veggies and fruits, if the alternative is that the dog goes out and finds sh** to eat.

 

J.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

Just to clarify: Michelle, you may have misread my statement?

 

You:

 

And who is it that has decided that sheepdogs do not need a meat-rich diet?

(emphasis added)

 

Me in previous post:

 

Sheepdogs didn't have a meat-rich diet.

 

My point being, as Julie also reiterated, that the breed was developed on a poor man's diet. Shepherds subsisted on boiled grains, bread, and the merest scraps of animal protein (mostly dairy products and fish). Sheepdogs (the precursors of the various herding breeds) did too. That's fact, not my conjecture.

 

Physiology doesn't determine what a dog thrives on - it comes down to whether a particular approach "feeds the bulldog" at the end of a hard day of work. Today I will catch up some chores left until after lambing - some ewes with longish feet, that darn ram and HIS pesky feet, I've got an itchy ewe lamb I want to shear, and everyone needs a round of wormer. Will I have enough dog at the end of the day?

 

The fact is that wolves only have to push themselves hard enough to bring down a single kill, and occasionally fend off territorial incursions (with help from pack members). They can self regulate. We've bred Border Collies in particular with a drive that will push them beyond physical limits. Their stomachs can only hold so much and for a dog that is working very hard, meat is not the most efficient source of energy.

 

I assure you that I can afford to feed my dogs whatever they need. Ben eats a 99% animal-based diet. Their needs, however, don't always correspond to our ideals. I keep my mind open to anything that might help them do their work as best as possible. Hunger is the last thing I want on my dog's mind when he's working ewes with newborns.

[Root Beer]

I've found that this is one of the most confusing aspects of feeding raw. I tend to go back and forth on veggies.

 

Even if the dogs don't technically need them, who's to say that there still isn't some benefit to feeding them? Same with a bit of grains.

 

It's like chocolate (for humans, not for dogs!!). We don't need it. It's even bad for us in high amounts. But a bit of chocolate here and there never hurt anyone (unless he was allergic) and some say that chocolate in small quantities is actually good for us. Of course, that's debatable, but it works for me!

 

In a strictly utilitarian sense, the veggies might not even have any benefit to a dog, so why bother?

 

But in the sense that I like for my dogs to enjoy eating, if the dogs like veggies and fruit, I don't see any reason not to feed them as part of the diet, as long as they can process them through their digestive tract. My dogs, for some reason, don't do well with corn, so I don't give it to them. But they enjoy and do fine with green beans, so they get those.

 

It seems to me that one diet doesn't fit all for people, so how could one diet fit all for dogs? I don't know. I really like feeding raw, but there is a confusing side to it.

[Lenajo]

Becca while I agree about the laws regarding rabbit in the old country, I don't know how you would keep a sheepdog from rabbiting - especially a hungry one belonging to a poor shepherd. I've seen these dogs even catch small ones on the outruns and swallow them whole. Baby rabbits in the hayfield and barn as well.

 

Poaching them..yes...it was punished. But nobody stood around policing the hedgerows as the sheep were moving .

 

As to the rest, I think dogs are opportunistic carnivorous scavengers....

 

There is a whole "Natural Rearing" movement, taking back the old ways of feeding and thinking in raising and keeping animals with an effort to repair some of the damage done by the over use of modern medicines, chemicals, etc. I believe it the movement myself, but I think many people get hung on the portion of it they like. It's normal I suppose, and I've been guilty of pushing the raw diet with a hammer myself. However the founder of the movement via her books and speaking, Juliet de Barclai Levy, was a very interesting and successful dog breeder - as well as a shepherdess. She did feed meat primarily, but she also was a master herbalist and gave her dogs those as needed, as well as grains and dairy. She made much note of the good health and vitality of the "shepherd's dog" in her books, noting the dogs simple fair of mutton, milk soaked oats, and fish.

 

I like giving my dogs good raw food, but I also respect that they can pick a fig tree faster than I can say "hey, those are for me!", and they crack their own pecans better than a squirrel. They like berries in the summer, fresh tomatoes from the vine.... Long before I had heard the term "raw feeding" our Pointer Bo would eat a cabbage a day from the garden. And forget getting any peas if he was around.

 

I do wish you could find a rabbit source for you dogs Bill. It is a nice variety for the dogs and they do do well on it.

[mbernard2424]

Right now, even if veggies and grains are bad, I think they are not as bad as dog feces and rotten balage. I know it doesn't fit with the raw purists' world view, but it fits with the reality on the ground as I have seen it.

 

Most importantly, it seems to be working for my dogs. Maybe they are part pig.

 

Perhaps I should have added a few more or maybe some or some to my post about pigs and Babe ... *I was poking fun at you Bill!* My first thought when I saw you were feeding veggie scraps coated with bacon grease was: yuck! That's pig food. Then I thought of Babe who could herd so I thought maybe you were confused about what you were feeding.

 

No insult to you, at all, intended. You and everyone else is entitled to feed whatever it is they feel is correct and you can afford. I don't have a particular problem with feeding veggies or grains if it is working for you.

 

I personally despise pet food manufacturers. I see a lot of suffering that is directly a result of what pet food manufacturers put in a bag and call food *and* the veterinarians who recommend it. Many of the common ailments that dogs and cats suffer with today are directly attributable to commercial pet food. Your coating veggie scraps with bacon grease was too close to what pet food manufacturers are actually doing, and that's all some dogs and cats get to eat, they don't get mutton, chicken backs, etc. in addition to veggie or grain fillers.

 

One other comment, Bill, how did we go from "pumpkin and other forms of winter squash and they'll eat a little but not enough to solve the problem" (from your original post) to veggie scraps soaked in bacon grease *and* you entitled this post "Raw diet not working" yet you yourself say later on that it is.

 

What did irritate me is Rebecca's post that dogs are a lot like pigs. Maybe in how they were domesticated, but not in how they are designed to digest food which is what this post began as. Yes, canines are opportunistic, however, anatomically, they are not designed to digest and utilize plant matter, no one can deny that. If it is a choice between eating corn or starving, of course they are going to eat corn. Because a dog has more flexibility in its digestive processes it can survive on bread soaked in milk, veggie scraps soaked in bacon grease, oatmeal, etc., but it is not an ideal diet.

 

I am sorry if I came across as nasty and I did over-react, but I don't like to see animals suffering and I see it, all the time. I get several e-mails a day from people who have animals who are very sick because of pet food manufacturers.

 

And Julie, yes, I believe my dogs do perform better because of what they eat *and* you will see me back out on the USBCHA trial field soon enough as well as continuing in my other "venues."

 

End of discussion, for me.

[juliepoudrier]

but I don't like to see animals suffering and I see it, all the time. I get several e-mails a day from people who have animals who are very sick because of pet food manufacturers.

I'm sure there are plenty of animals out there suffering because of what they're fed (or for other reasons unrelated to food), but I think this is the wrong audience to project those concerns onto. Most of us are quite well-educated about what consitutes good and suitable food for our dogs and we have the healthy, active working dogs to prove it. Maybe your real contention is that we'll never know how much healthier they could be if we'd only feed exactly as you think we should feed, but I guess that's something we're not likely to find out.

 

People here have volunteered that their dogs willingly choose to eat fruits and vegetables (as in the human doesn't actively offer the items to the dog), and I am fairly sure that none of the people who have posted are starving their dogs. So it stands to reason that although dogs may be primarily designed to eat meat, they are certainly willing and able to eat other things, even when they aren't starving. Perhaps they're just hopeless fools who don't have any idea what they really should be eating and so must rely on the human to protect them from their own choices and feed them only what the human deems acceptable.

 

they are not designed to digest and utilize plant matter, no one can deny that. If it is a choice between eating corn or starving, of course they are going to eat corn.

 

It's when you make the kind of statement you make above, which is certainly over the top, that you really turn people off to listening to what you have to say, because you lose credibility. As I noted in the paragraph above this one, the dogs in question aren't starving, yet they are choosing to eat fruits and veggies. While those dogs' choices might not fit in with your world view of what dogs should or should not eat, it makes no sense to take that example and twist it into something about starving dogs.

 

Because a dog has more flexibility in its digestive processes it can survive on bread soaked in milk, veggie scraps soaked in bacon grease, oatmeal, etc., but it is not an ideal diet.

 

First you say no one can deny that the dog is designed to digest meat and not digest and utilize plant matter, then you say the above, which contradicts the earlier statement. Their digestive systems are either flexible or they are not--you can't have it both ways depending on what you're trying to argue at the moment.

 

J.

[Bill Fosher]

Hi Michelle,

 

In retrospect, I probably should have titled the thread "Need to tweek raw diet" but after cleaning up regurgitated dog feces for the second day in a row, I did feel at the time like something was very wrong.

 

And the veggie scraps are not soaked in bacon grease. Probably a tablespoon of grease in a 12 inch skillet, and the stuff tossed around until it starts to wilt. Just gets it into them. I could probably accomplish the same end with chicken broth. And I suppose it's too soon to say for a fact that it's working, but after three days all coprophragia stopped like someone had thrown a switch.

 

I really don't think that letting them bulk up and then working it off later is the answer. Winter is not just a passing bother in New Hampshire. It's at least a third of the year. Bad icy conditions can last for weeks. Weight doesn't come off that quickly, and it doesn't do the dogs any favors to let them be bulked up when their joints are at risk just from walking around on the ice.

 

I tend to agree with Becca that dogs and pigs have a lot in common. As she points out, both were domesticated at the midden heaps of human civilization. Both are omnivorous; pigs are better at digesting vegetables and grains and dogs are better at digesting meat, but both can use just about anything.

 

My Australian shepherd never had to choose between corn silage and starvation. Far from it. But take her to dairy farm and she would find the bunker silo and park herself at the face if I didn't prevent it. Ditto for small fruits. My old Molly dog used to find wild strawberries in any field if they were there. Not sure she has enough sense of smell left to find them now; we'll see next June assuming she makes it to be 15 years, six months old. The coyotes that I have seen eating corn and oats are a long, long way from starving.

 

The addition of vegetable matter to my dogs' raw diet seems to have solved the problem of them feeling empty and eating nasty stuff. Whether that fits with your view of the ideal diet for dogs is of some intellectual interest to me, but I'll tell you that I'm not planning to change things at the moment.

[Pippin's person]

Careful about wading in here--but don't dogs have short guts precisely because they will eat whatever and if whatever happens to be something disagreeable, it shoots on through (so to speak) quickly?

 

My dogs also will choose all kinds of non-meat items and they for sure aren't starving. One dog goes ape over lettuce spines; one will dance a jig for a carrot; three drool over orange slices while four others look askance. All of them sit pretty for an almond.

 

Seems like lots of folks (and, in our house is any gauge, also lots of dogs) have the winter ick this week and need some more sun and exercise.....speaking for myself mostly, of course.

[Sue R]

My Bute would be a vegetarian if I'd let him, I think. He loves raw or cooked - carrots, cucumber, zucchini, winter squash, green beans, beets, corn, and all manner of veggies. He also begs for orange slices and loves peanuts. He will eat the veggies out of his dish before the kibble, but probably not before the meat (if there is any). He loves anything that involves grains - licking an oatmeal or Cream of Wheat dish, and practically turning himself inside out for a piece of bread or pizza crust. If allowed to chose between a premium dog food and grain-laden junk like Alpo, it's no contest - he's into the junk. He is a dog that needs lots of fiber in his diet or he tends to get a bit "loose" or go off his feed a bit. Bute gets Eagle Pack Holistic Chicken and Rice because it agrees with him the best of the premium foods I have tried.

 

While Celt is also a great consumer of green grass for a fiber source, his veggie/fruit options are very limited - he likes cooked winter squash and beets, and that's about it. Megan, while not much of a grass eater, does love the cooked winter squash and beets. These two are my dependable eaters - if one of them doesn't clean up their Canidae in very short order, he or she is sick.

 

We feed them all cooked winter squash regularly right now, and it firms up their poop nicely if they tend to be a bit soft. Although it results in more pooping, we think it's healthful and beneficial and I don't mind the extra yard duty. It's all home-grown and they look forward to it in their dish. I think it helps them feel full longer.

 

We supplement with fat from our pasture-raised beef, and give fish oil, flax oil, and Vit E. We also give recreational bones about every second day and it sure helps keep their breath nice, especially for Bute who, with his overbite perhaps contributing in some way, tended to have nasty breath.

 

They are all lean and as fit as I make the effort to get them, look good, have shiny coats, and appear quite content.

 

Sorry, but I think I have diverged from the topic...

[mbernard2424]

Okay, I'm going to try again.

 

Dog: mouth full of pointed teeth, no grinding teeth there; limited side to side jaw motion; no amylase in their saliva to begin digestion of plant matter. Digestive system is simple, short and acidic. The dog is a creature that is adapted to consuming meat.

 

Sheep: mouth full of flat teeth, full side to side jaw motion, amylase in their saliva, long, long, complicated digestive tract. The sheep is a creature that is adapted to consuming plant matter.

 

I see coyote scat out in the fields where I live. Often I see fruits, seeds and grains in their feces. Sure, they eat these things, but because they are not designed to digest them, they often go right through them. Cooking the plant matter does make it more digestible, but I don't think coyotes know how to cook.

 

Just because the ancestors of our dogs ate a poor man's supper, it doesn't mean they've adapted to eat this way. Their digestive systems are still the same as a wolf. They are anatomically carnivores.

 

Dogs and cats who have been on kibble diets and are then switched to a raw diet will often continue to crave vegetables and fruits. They are essentially carbo junkies. Does this mean they need vegetables or fruit in their diets? I don't think so. I think that they just like to eat and it's certainly easier to go and pick berries than it is to run down a rabbit. Julie said perhaps they're just hopeless fools who don't have any idea what they really should be eating and so must rely on the human to protect them from their own choices and feed them only what the human deems acceptable and quite frankly, I think that's true to some extent.

 

Dogs are more flexible in their digestive processes than cats who must consume meat to survive. If you look at the differences between dog kibble and cat kibble you'll see that there is a lot more meat in cat kibble (or at least there should be). Dogs have survived for years eating kibble, but to me, there's a big difference between surviving and thriving.

 

I did not intend to infer that anyone here was starving their dogs. I do expect if you offered a coyote a rabbit or an ear of corn, it would go for the rabbit, but if a rabbit wasn't available, than an ear of corn would fill the stomach.

[Bill Fosher]

Dogs and cats who have been on kibble diets and are then switched to a raw diet will often continue to crave vegetables and fruits. They are essentially carbo junkies. Does this mean they need vegetables or fruit in their diets? I don't think so.

 

Then my puppy, who was weaned onto raw meat and bones and whose mother was fed a raw diet, is a freak of nature. She goes bonkers for grains from popcorn to brown rice. Like veggies too. Not so keen on liver.

 

I do expect if you offered a coyote a rabbit or an ear of corn, it would go for the rabbit, but if a rabbit wasn't available, than an ear of corn would fill the stomach.

 

I suspect you're right about that, assuming that you could get a coyote to eat something offered by a human at all. But I've seen coyotes eating oats within 100 yards of a dead sheep that they had killed earlier that morning. My theory was that they were trying to recreate haggis -- they had eaten the stomach, liver, pelvic fat, and lights, and were in need of some oatmeal.

[Shetlander]

I assure you that I can afford to feed my dogs whatever they need. Ben eats a 99% animal-based diet. Their needs, however, don't always correspond to our ideals. I keep my mind open to anything that might help them do their work as best as possible.

 

I don't feed raw and my dog isn't a working sheepdog. I just wanted to chime in that in the end the most important question to me is on which diet will my dogs do best? Currently I have three dogs with three different answers to that question.

 

After recurrent diarrhea for over 2 years, being diagnosed with IBD and doing worse on a conventional approach to treating his disease, Quinn is thriving on a premix, Sojo's, that consists of Rolled Oats, Rye Flakes, Barley Flakes, Ground Pecans, Natural Calcium Carbonate, Kelp, Carob Powder, Parsley, and Nettles Leaf to which I add cooked (at the holistic vet's recommendation) meat and a number of supplements. This isn't a cheap diet by any stretch of the imagination. It's downright expensive. However, Quinn's energy level is through the roof, his coat is wonderful, he loves the food and oh, yeah, no diarrhea in a bit over 2 months.

 

So, I'm thinking this is the diet for him -- at least right now.

[Rebecca, Irena Farm]

My theory was that they were trying to recreate haggis -- they had eaten the stomach, liver, pelvic fat, and lights, and were in need of some oatmeal.

 

Hee! Maybe they've heard of this saying: Ruithidh an taigeis fhein le bruthaich. ("Even a haggis can run, downhill"). Coming soon, to an unguarded sheep pasture near you, haggis-powered coys!