Anijosdad Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 I have clipped Ani's nails when needed for the past 7 months. One time I did get the quick and drew a little blood. She has tolerated it so far. Today however, she was curling her lips, baring her teeth and she didn't bite me but she kinda put her mouth to my hand as if to say "try that again and I WILL bite you". When she "struck" at me, I batted her nose enough so she would know that is BAD. I tried going in for another nail, and she curled, and bared teeth again so I stopped. I didn't think I should go through 18 nails and just cause a bad scenario. Should I force her to submit to clipping? Should I get a muzzle for it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 I wouldn't continue to force her. Try to desensitize her to the process or get someone else to do it. Also, Try a dremel. My "hates getting nails clipped" dog does much better with a dremel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anijosdad Posted November 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 I have a "dremel" type nail grinder from a previous dog. I'll try that. I hesitate because of the noise,(she is quite noise sensitive) but it doesn't hurt (too much) to try. If she resists, I'll try something else. Any suggestions on de-sensitizing? We have sporadically been touching/handling her feet all through her puppyhood. Clippings have probably been once a month up to now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simba Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 I have been basically offering a treat for each nail cut for my dogs who hate nail cutting (following methods suggested in older threads- starting with a reward for handling the paw, a reward when I pick the nail clippers up etc and gradually moving onwards). For one dog that is fine. For the other that has led to no progress and basically I am still having to 'pin' her- her nails grow faster than her sensitivity decreases (previous injury and arthritis so she has good reason for not liking her hind paws being handled). I will follow this thread with interest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 There are many detailed instructions for desensitization and counter-conditioning in these Boards. A search should yield lots of results. The process is the same, whether it's for handling issues, reactivity, etc. A word of caution about correcting her for warnings. You run the very real risk of ending up with a dog who won't warn any more but will go straight to a more intense bite without warning. What she did was a very gently and inhibited communication with you, which you chose to respond to with a correction. This can escalate. Or, as I said, she may suppress the warning and go straight to a more serious bite. Personally, I respect those kinds of communications from my dogs. IMO, they have as much right to communicate their discomfort as I do, as long as it's appropriate. This was. You may also want to try giving her some melatonin (3-6 mg) or L-theanine to help take the edge of of what is a stressful situation for her. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anijosdad Posted November 30, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Personally, I respect those kinds of communications from my dogs. IMO, they have as much right to communicate their discomfort as I do, as long as it's appropriate. This was. Agreed. That is why i stopped and didn't force the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 I was super surprised at how well my dog did with the dremel. Her nails grow fast and need frequent trimming and counter conditioning just wasn't working (probably me, but still wasn't solving the problem). She still didn't really like the dremel but she did relax pretty well for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jvw Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 I have no patience. I used to muzzle my ACD cross and just get the nails done. Once I put the muzzle on her she just gave up and I could get the task done fast. She knew I was going to finish regardless of her behavior. Once done I would give her treats. I realize this is not the best way for all dogs. But it worked for us. If I had to desensitze her then her nails would have been a mile long! Someone gave me a Pedipaws. It is a weak version of the Dremel (i take the guard off). I now can do her nails with no muzzle. She still grumbles sometimes. But she knows I always finish. YMMV Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Agreed. That is why i stopped and didn't force the issue. I'm happy to hear that. Far too many people seem to believe that they have to exert complete dominance over their dogs and won't tolerate any of that type of communication at all. Very sad for the dogs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 When I cut my dog's nails, or my cat's, I make a big production out of getting out treats beforehand. I give a couple of treats before I start cutting. I find that with restraint, less is more. If you're going to do something to an animal that they fear, or don't like, I think restraint ramps up that fear. This is especially true with a naturally fearful dog or a cat. If it comes to a struggle, I let go, stroke, praise, offer treats and try again. This is less time-consuming than it sounds. I can clip all four feet on either of my animals in under three minutes. I find that whether I "peckinpah" the nail or not is fairly irrelevant to how the animal reacts the next time I clip. If you have an animal that jerks its foot when you squeeze the clipper, then repeat the squeeze, without actually cutting, and pop a treat in their mouth. Do this four or five times and they usually stop jerking. What you have done is not condition them not to jerk the paw - that's a secondary effect of the fear. What you've done is to allay the fear, so the jerk reflex is not triggered. Both my dog and my cat will do ANYTHING for kitty Greenies. I use them for training treats for both species. When I cut the dog's nails I bring a dog Greenie to the table where I sit to clip her. She's usually so fixated on the Greenie that she only squirms if I block her view of it. She knows she's getting it when we're done, so she doesn't fuss. A great trick I learned from a veterinary journal is "the rubber band trick." It works much better on cats that dogs, but it has a discernible effect on dogs too. Take a large rubber band, like the ones that come on asparagus, and put it around the animal's face - not the muzzle - but around the head in front of the ears and behind the eyes. Like the browband on a horse bridle. With 99% of the cats, the effect is that the animal becomes completely immobile for up to two minutes, or as little as 30 seconds. Dogs are not immobilized, but the novelty of the feeling will divert their focus. They will be assessing this novel feeling and be less concerned with whatever else you may be doing - a shot, clipping out a mat, cutting a nail. It doesn't hurt - but it feels strange, so most dogs will be pretty still for a moment. That's your window to do what you need to. I agree that a dog's resistance and warnings should be respected, but I also feel that with anything that triggers a fear response you should work on that trigger with the dog. Routine maintenance should not be a struggle, and a dog that is not afraid should be willing to comply. I have a "BE STILL" command for situations where I need to have instant and total compliance from the dog. In my opinion, a dog should respond as quickly and reliably to "be still" as they do to a recall. I have thwarted many a burrowing foxtail that was trying for a nostril or ear canal with a "be still" command. But it must be taught and proofed like anything else. Last, I find that most dogs submit more readily to nail clipping from a vet or groomer than the owner. Both are much less concerned with hurting the dog, because they have confidence in their ability to get the job done without injury. So they do not communicate "impending mayhem" to the dog. The owner's fear of hurting the dog is a strong clue to the dog that maybe it should be afraid. In the case of a dog who has been allowed to become very fearful of nail-clipping, it is sometimes better to let the vet or a groomer do it so the dog has a different, less fraught experience, and begins to lose its fear. After a few sessions, the owner can take over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jescano Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Teach her how to "file" her own nails. Jinx lets me clip his nails, but it's much easier for me to just secure sand paper onto a board and let him scratch it a few times with each paw. He doesn't mind at all. I just used a clicker. click for touching it, then click for dragging his paw across, then for pawing it multiple times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gonetotervs Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Shirley Chong's website has a wonderful section on covering an old cutting board with sandpaper and getting your dogs to scrape their paws on it, essentially clicking/treating them for giving themselves a manicure. I am lazy. I really like this method. Get out the board, the clicker, some kibble or treats and pour a glass a wine. Sit down in the kitchen and train the dogs, sipping a bit of wine if dogs are slow to catch on. They catch on before the glass is gone. You might still have to do dewclaws. But.... depending on the type of wine you like to drink, this is cheaper than buying multiple muzzles. P.S. the wine is my addition. Not required but adds to the low-stress ambiance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maralynn Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Front paws I could see working really well with a sandpaper board. But how do you train for back paws? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D'Elle Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Shirley Chong's website has a wonderful section on covering an old cutting board with sandpaper and getting your dogs to scrape their paws on it, essentially clicking/treating them for giving themselves a manicure. I am lazy. I really like this method. Get out the board, the clicker, some kibble or treats and pour a glass a wine. Sit down in the kitchen and train the dogs, sipping a bit of wine if dogs are slow to catch on. They catch on before the glass is gone. You might still have to do dewclaws. But.... depending on the type of wine you like to drink, this is cheaper than buying multiple muzzles. P.S. the wine is my addition. Not required but adds to the low-stress ambiance. sounds like a good system to me. :-) But for the OP...I will second the folks who suggest trying a dremel. I actually use a flexible shaft rotary tool, which is like a dremel on steroids....it goes up to 2500 rpm, and gets the job done Fast. Gotta be careful with these, though, to be sure to keep all hair away from the turning shaft. (And I bought it for other things.....it would be pretty spendy to buy one just to do the dogs' nails.) I also suggest that you do whatever work is required to desensitize your dog to the trimming. Since she used to tolerate it, you have a high probability of success if you just take the desensitizing very slowly and use a lot of treats. It may take weeks or months to get her comfortable with it again, but it is worth it. In the meantime, let your vet or a groomer trim the nails. As others have said, some dogs act completely different with a groomer or vet. I took my Kit dog to a groomer to have her nails trimmed, and told them they had to muzzle her because she would have the most impressive kind of hissy fit if I even approached her with the clippers. They had no problem with her at all - she was completely passive, let them just take her paws and do it, without a complaint. They had to show me when I came to get her, because I didn't believe them. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rushdoggie Posted November 30, 2014 Report Share Posted November 30, 2014 Add my old lady Papillon to the list of dogs that seems to prefer the Dremel to the clipper...I can only hypothesize the "clip" action is uncomfortable or painful in some way. My fearful Border Collie is terrified of the dremel (to the point where he won't come into a room if he sees it) but tolerates a clip and file just fine. Dogs can be odd sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jescano Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 Front paws I could see working really well with a sandpaper board. But how do you train for back paws? It's the same, teach them to target with back paws then scratch it with back paws. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 I used to use a dremel with my old lady GSDx, she hated her paws being touched, but we got to the point where she tolerated the dremel, traditional nail clippers were out of the question. My current dog hates the dremel, but is willing to have his nails done with a traditional clipper. I used a cordless dremel with fairly course sandpaper as it got the job done quicker, I found the smoother paper suggested for dogs took to long for jesters limited patience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moosikins Posted December 1, 2014 Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 I had this same problem and ended up just taking Callie to the vet. Two vet techs held her and petted her, while the vet clipped all of them quickly. Once she realized that she wasn't going anywhere and it was happening regardless of how much she wiggled, she just went completely limp and hung there in their arms. She also bared her teeth and snapped at us when we tried to do it at home, very suddenly too. One day it was okay at home and at the groomer's, and then next she was just terrified of the nail clippers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anijosdad Posted December 1, 2014 Author Report Share Posted December 1, 2014 All great advice. Kinda just skimmed through, but plan to study all your posts. I have the pedi-paws also. Got it out and just turned it on without really approaching Ani. Let her come to the machine. Well, when she did come, she was lip curled, teeth bared, barking. I kinda expected that. She is initially very noise wary. I may try that some more. A couple of my problems is that the closest vet and groomer are 45 miles away. Oh well, this is just another hurdle we need to clear some how. We'll figure something out. Thanks again everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Before you get out the pedi-paws again, arm yourself with the most scrumptious treats you can think of. Don't turn it on; just let her see it and approach at whatever comfort level she indicates without pushing her. Best thing would be to use a clicker (that you've already charges and are comfortable with the concept and timing of) and click and reward for any interest in the device at all at first. Gradually work up to expecting more interest from her until you can touch her paws with it (still turned off), and the start the same process all over again (from a distance) with it turned on. This is basic desensitization and counter-conditioning, which has been described in detail several times on the boards. Time and patience are your friends; it can be a long process. What you're trying to do is to change her emotional response to it by creating positive associations to it. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy Posted December 2, 2014 Report Share Posted December 2, 2014 Walking on our neighborhood roads seems to do enough for most of Dixie's nails. But, at Thanksgiving, I got a few complains about he nails, what I now guess are her small dewclaws.So I tried to clip her nails. Dixie is terrified of having her toes touched! She cries if I try to touch them. Well, we got her 2-1/2 years ago - when she was 6-7 months old. Who knows. So I gave up. Then, after reading this thread, I gave it another try last evening. She was in her chair (yes, I have made sort of slip-covers for the seat, the back, and the arms so she can use it but it can be returned to a normal chair for guests). I managed to feel all her nails. Only the dewclaws seemed a problem. And she let me clip those. Guess I'm learning to pick my issues? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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