Pain Tolerance

[brady's mom]

Just from the recent experience with a more serious injury than a shallow scratch, I've become absolutely amazed at the level of pain my dog can tolerate. I know it's been mentioned repeatedly on these boards about how tough collies are, and have to be, but I've never actually experienced this in a dog before. Ever. All the other doggy companions I've had in my life have had either a low or average threshold to pain. They yelped, limped, or growled when in pain and brought attention to the issue. But Brady? I've almost started to believe that he doesn't even feel pain (although, I know he MUST...right?). After puncturing his joint on a rock, despite the fact that he was bleeding EVERYWHERE, all he wanted was for us to throw the toy. Completely ignored the fact that he had to have been hurting, and I know he was because he initially favored the limb the few seconds after it happened, and even walked on it all the way back to the car which was a good fourth of a mile away (which I feel intensely guilty about, but he wouldn't let me pick him up).

 

And lately, I've been finding scratches and scabs on him from smaller, shallower injuries that must have happened during our romps outside but I never noticed because of this sudden bout of thick man-hair he's grown on his chest. Never showed a single symptom of pain. Ever.

 

And now I don't know whether to be in awe of this dog who is apparently part superhero or if I should be disconcerted. What else is he not showing? Do I have to go on hyper-alert now every time we do something? I know bumps and bruises are going to happen, that's just part of living, but I don't want him to develop something serious and have it go undetected because he just simply...swallows pain like a champ.

 

How do you guys cope? I know a bunch of you work your dogs daily on livestock or other physical situations, so what do you do knowing that these tough, tough dogs are literally just going to suck it up until the job is done?

 

I know this may be a completely out there and juvenile question (and probably one you guys have addressed before) but I'm just concerned that maybe I haven't been doing it right and that I need to be doing something...more.

 

Plus, I value your guys' opinions quite a bit. You all are like the border collie jedi masters.

[Rave]

One of my BC's broke her foot once and kept on running. Pitched a fit when I stopped her to put her up.

 

You learn to notice the subtle things. Our stoic dogs may not show signs of lameness while in the middle of working or playing, but afterward, when the adrenaline wears off, is when you will usually see the signs. Watch how your dog moves while uninjured so you can recognize when his/her gait is off. A healthy dog's spine should not move side to side when viewed at a walk from behind; a horizontal "sway" in the hind end can be indicative of compensating for something. Now that something might just be a sore muscle, so no need to freak out, but watch your dog and learn what is normal for him/her.

 

Watch when the dog first rises after sleeping or lying down for awhile, that is typically when they'll be the most stiff and show the most signs. They may not whine on exam, but they may pant, lick their lips, turn their head, etc... Your vet should be skilled in watching for these subtle signs of discomfort.

[Beach BCs]

Georgia was running through a field one day went over an upright rusty pipe that I had no idea was there. She went over it, stopped and continued running. When she came back to me I saw she was bleeding. I took a look at her belly and off to the vet we went. 17 stitches later...Then there was the snake bite last year. Tough little dog.

[gcv-border]

I agree with Rave -- you have to learn the subtle signs of injury. Particularly pay attention when they first get up from a down position and when they are not 'working' or playing (i.e. when the adrenaline is not masking pain).

 

My dog hurt himself while playing ball (by himself) one Saturday night. I saw him sort of come up short when he caught the ball, but he did not limp at all. I decided to play it safe and brought him in for the night. The next morning he was a tripod - not using his Left Front leg. He limped outside to do his business. Other than limping, his attitude was unchanged. He just -- adapted. Since it was Sunday, I had to go to the emergency vet ($$$). I lifted him out of the car, and he tripodded across the parking lot to the vet's office. We sat in the waiting room about 10-15 minutes (not too long). A tech came out to get him. I waited in an examining room, while they gaited him in the back so they could see his limping. When the doc brought him into the exam room, he said they COULD NOT SEE ANY LIMPING! He probably thought I was just a worry wart. So the vet prescribed a mild pain killer and an anti-inflammatory thinking that it was a soft tissue injury. (Not a bad guess, since in a phone conversation with my rehab vet 2 days later, she made the same diagnosis.) The minute I took Torque out the door to walk back to my car, he started tripodding again.

 

I kept him on pain meds and anti-inflammatories for a couple of weeks, and he stopped tripodding, but if he ran or did any vigorous movement, he started limping again. After 3 weeks, my rehab vet had a cancellation (I was lucky since she is usually booked 3-4 months out). She prefers conservative treatment (no surgeries) for most injuries, but she almost immediately sent me to an ortho surgeon.

 

Surgery determined that Torque had torn his left bicep tendon 75%. Conservative treatment would not have healed it.

 

It was pretty amazing that he hardly limped in the 6 weeks between injury and surgery - only limping if he used it too vigorously. During the time before diagnosis, we went on vacation where we hiked (he was on leash) and he swam in the river without any limping afterwards. Before diagnosis, when we thought it was a soft tissue injury, I tried him on a jump and/or weave poles a few times to see if he would limp. He NEVER showed any signs of injury while playing agility, but would begin to favor his LF after coming inside the house.

 

So, yes, they will suck it up while 'working'. Because of that, and because I don't trust myself to see the subtle signs, I return to the rehab vet once every 3 or 4 months so she can examine Torque for any signs of injury.

 

Jovi

[Journey]

I had one with a dislocated shoulder. For 3 weeks all I knew was that he was *off* never lame just knew there was a hitch there intermittently. Off to the vet. They moved him, watched him go, scratched their heads, then stretched him. Pop. In went the shoulder. Vet jumped back, dog yawned...thankyouverymuch. Went home and that was that. I knew he was off but you'd think a dislocated should would be more pronounced, not in his case. Know your dog!

[TEC]

...How do you guys cope? I know a bunch of you work your dogs daily on livestock or other physical situations, so what do you do knowing that these tough, tough dogs are literally just going to suck it up until the job is done?

 

 

Have had similar experiences to above members' responses. Wish I was the "jedi master", you no doubt jokingly made reference to. BCs are tough monkeys. They give meaning to the athletes' phrases, "Just walk it off", or "Rub a little dirt on it"

 

Not sure whether the inquiry was directed toward fatigue and heat injuries, yet they are issues to be aware of. Border Collies are hard-wired to move stock, and if allowed, they will work themselves into the ground. The breed can't help it... it's in their DNA. Every dog and job is different, and terrain and weather conditions vary. I do not know of an established rule of thumb, which can be implemented simply by watching a clock. My suggestion is to watch and understand each particular dog's early signs of fatigue, so that handler can provide a break in work before he/she expects extreme fatigue to manifest itself. Try to avoid dog beginning to show signs of injurious fatigue and/or heat-related issues. It works for me to move stock in lots of short bursts of perhaps 5-20 mins, interpersed with brief rest breaks. In warm weather, I carry water, so that Josie can remain hydrated while we break in the field. A rest period might be under a shade tree, or just getting off stock for a few moments, as we walk to another area of the field.

 

My example is in the stock herding context, although clearly all sport/performance dogs can develop heat/fatigue injury symptoms.

 

Signs to watch for (talk to your vet): dog abruptly failing to take correct flanks/downs/commands, wobbling/staggering on feet, excessive panting, and anything that doesn't seem appropriate for your dog. Certain the web has many other specific symptoms. Provide regular rest, shade, H2O prior to appearance of signs. I am told bringing a dog back from heat stroke requires knowledge and skill, so obtain qualified professional advice. Nothing anyone wants to have to deal with.

 

Josie comes to my vicinity, and is ready for a new task with "that'll do" command. Somehow we developed an additional command that is one step beyond. For her, "that'll do" tells Josie to remain on alert, watching sheep, but ready for another job. Along with traditional command, found it handy to use "let'em go", "all done", and/or "rest", which evidently tells her to go ahead and relax near me, or find shade. The commands temporarily take her off duty. Many handlers have a "go to water" cue or its equivalent. However it is done, IMO a handler should enforce appropriate rest periods.

 

Happy your dog is healing well, and apparently without much pain. In my experience, that story is not uncommon for the breed. They are wonderful animals. -- Kind regards, TEC

[ChantalB]

Just have to each them carefully and do a full body check daily. Only way. They give everything to every job they do. I had the same blood everywhere from a hike, deep picture wound from a rock it turned out to be. Must of taken me an hour to notice the trail of blood. Yack. Not to mention crashing in to things all the time, and acting Like nothing happened. Mysterious scabs. Puppyhood was the worst, he's since learned a little self preservation, he will seek shade when he's too hot. Finally.

[border_collie_crazy]

while competeing in Flyball, during a tourny, a dog from the other lane crossed over in front of Happy, she skidded trying to stop, and collided with a jump with her hip..snapped it in half, everyone was like OMG!!! and grabbing for her...meanwhile, she dodged the people, hit the box, grabbed he ball and continued back over the jumps that werent broken..everyone was freaking out..she didnt even notice..the judge had me do a run with her after that so he could watch her run and see if she was OK..she continued to race the rest of the weekend no problem lol. she has also ripped her toenails right out of her foot...twice. the only clue it happened being the blood pooling up around her foot. oh she also ran under a shovel like 2 summers ago, recieved a deep gouge under her eye..she didnt notice.

 

Misty broke her canine chewing a bone and continued chewing with that tooth for hours on end..I didnt notice till she stood up on my bed while I was waking up, and I looked up and saw her tooth was broken and badly infected, I assumed it has happened the night before because she had spent several hours heavily chewing a large bone, but the vet chewed me out, said thats been broken for a while and basilcy accused me of neglect for not noticing sooner..like how would I know? she was eating and chewing normally, I dont inspect my dogs teeth daily!

[geonni banner]

A healthy dog's spine should not move side to side when viewed at a walk from behind; a horizontal "sway" in the hind end can be indicative of compensating for something."

Just want to say that a dog that paces, rather than trots, will often have a lot of side to side movement along its back. Some say that the pace is an inefficient gait and that the dogs that pace tire more easily and don't have the stamina of a trotter. I've had several pacers, and apart from looking rather inelegant from above when moving at a pace, I noticed no other differences from my trotting dogs. They say that among horses that race in trotting races, pacers are faster. Don't know if it's true.

 

I have known dogs with short backs that paced to avoid "stiking," and those dogs did seem to have stamina/ soreness issues. (Not that they complained - they just had some trouble keeping up on a long haul.)

[Rave]

Doesn't matter if a dog paces or trot, for what I described the dog is evaluated at a WALK.

 

A healthy dog's spine should not move side to side when viewed at a walk from behind;

[mbc1963]

One winter, my guy ran into a stick, stabbing himself in the chest. Didn't bleed externally, and I couldn't see it - we finished the walk and played ball, and I actually went to a movie. Came home and went to pat him and my fingers slid into the hole in his chest. Needed surgery to stitch him back together.

 

Conversely, one evening Buddy cracked a dewclaw toenail, and you would have thought he was DYING. He cried and limped around, and pressed himself against me like death was at the door and my presence was his only comfort in the face of the shadow-world. Five minutes at the vet and he was boundy-happy again.

 

So, they can be stoic, and they can be pathetically melodramatic!

 

Mary

[SS Cressa]

Lol i was starting to think Cressa was the only odd border collie. Its generally easy to tell when she gets hurt. She stops what she is doing and start crying for me to get her.

 

My other border collie has that invincible gene in spades. I just always thought it was a boy thing

[brady's mom]

Thanks for all the insight, guys.

 

I guess I'll just have to be more...aware. I swear he has no sense of self awareness, just a constant mindset of: oh, you want to hike up the mountain? well, I'm going to run THROUGH the mountain!

 

 

It's both endearing and terrifying, lol.

[Gideon's girl]

Gideon just cut open one of his pad while he was penning our goats. He never even paused. I finally discovered the cut because, as he was walking through the house, he paused and lifted his paw over his head(while still standing) looked at the bottom of it, licked twice, and went on his way. Such a weird posture was to only reason I looked at his foot. Border Collies, gotta love 'em.

[Tea]

About the only thing my dogs have had is worn feet and the occassional kick from a cow. I treat the sore fet with salve and rest. And watch carefully and feel them if they get kicked or rolled. The dogs learn if they get kicked, and get back where they should be. I learn to keep them back out where they should be. Both of us learn to be careful. Such is life.

 

Once Cap got nailed to a tree by a big ram and was pretty bruised and sore. But he was given appropriate rest and medicine. They do have a tolerance for pain.