Kian's Mom Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Ran across an article about different mixed breeds. Some of these I have heard of but not most of them. Cute names but still mutts to me. Used to be if you had an oops litter ( different breeds) you gave them away. Now they get big money for these. Pitsky - Pitbull & Husky Schnoodle- Schnauzer & Poodle Puggle - Pug & Beagle Horgi- Husky & Corgi Chusky- Chow Chow & Siberian Husky Pugapoo- Pug & Poodle Chiweenie- Chihuahau & Dashshand Corgipoo- Corgi &Toy Poodle Siberpoo- Siberian Huasy & Poodle Fourche Terrier- West Highland White Terrier & Yorkshire Terrier Taco Terrier- Chihuahua & Toy Fox Terrier Corman Shepard- Corgi & German Sheperd Golden Dox- Dachshund & Golden Retriever Alusky - Siberian Husky & Alaskan Malamute Jack-A-Ranian- Jack Russell Terrier & Pomeranian Cheagle- Chihuahua & Beagle With Westminster now having a mixed breed class, do you feel there will be an increase in mutts being bred ? Not that I watch this anyway but was just wondering? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentleLake Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 What a bunch of hooey. And as I've said before, it's a great example of fools and their money being easily parted. OTOH, I used to have a pointriever. But he was free (as well he should have been). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I saw the same or like article and it ended with the absurd comment that they'd take one of those great mixes over a pricey Tibetan Mastiff (as if there are so many around) any day. Totally missing the fact that people are shelling out big bucks for those designer "breeds." I don't think the average pet person cares that much about what the AKC or Westminster is allowing, since they don't participate in dog sports. But I do see these faux breeds becoming more popular. The average pet person loves their dog and thinks their Cockalhasapoo is great, not realizing the same accidental mix of breeds at a shelter would likely be just as great and beloved as the pup they paid so much money for. And yes, I had a Bassetweiler myself, many years ago but he too was free (until the first trip to the vet). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alligande Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 A mutt is a mutt, I was the very proud owner of GSD beagle cross, she was wonderfully bizarre and definately not a candidate as a designer dog but she made for some great conversations. As a clarification Westminster are not having a class for mutts, there is a small % of them taking part alongside all the other dogs in an agility trial before the confirmation show begins. For those that don't know AKC began allowing mix breeds to compete in their agility trials a couple of years ago, I have no idea if it has become a popular venue for them, early on there was a lot of talk about feeling like a second class citizen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pippin's person Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Generally an "oops" litter is an unplanned litter. Many mixed breed litters are carefully planned and the pups spoken for before the breeding is done. I think it's important in discussions of "mutts" to distinguish between the motives for doing the breeding and the fact of cross-breeding itself. All dog "breeds" are the result of human intervention in canine breeding practices and in that sense similar to "mutts." 10 years ago or so, extremely well-bred working border collie puppies sold for a few hundred dollars, now most are well over $1000. Idiots shelling out big bucks for a dog that might not even do what it was bred to do?? That said, I can't imagine what all those husky crosses are like--esp. the one with the chow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 (edited) With Westminster now having a mixed breed class, do you feel there will be an increase in mutts being bred ? Not that I watch this anyway but was just wondering? You know that Westminster dog show is not having a mixed breed class, right? This year there is an agility trial being held in conjunction with the breed show, and THAT allows mixed breed competitors. The media is making a big deal of it, of course, but AKC has allowed mixed breeds to compete in most of its companion events since 2009. I don't think that it will have much, if any, impact on the increase of mutts being bred, IMO. As for the purpose bred crosses, I am kinda in the middle. I think people who pay big bucks for mixed breeds are crazy, but not much more than people who pay big bucks for purebreds. No, I'm not against responsible breeding, just talking about some of the outrageous prices I've seen being asked. Would I rather see mixed breeds in shelters get adopted by a family wanting a pet, instead of them going to a shi-poo breeder? Of course!. But I know of many purpose bred mixed breed dogs who came from carefully planned litters, with waiting lists and every dog plus some, spoken for. These are usually bred for doggie sports, and I understand the allure, even if I would never buy one. Edited January 31, 2014 by PSmitty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Root Beer Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 With Westminster now having a mixed breed class, do you feel there will be an increase in mutts being bred ? Not that I watch this anyway but was just wondering? No, I don't think the fact of inclusion of mixed breeds in the Agility competition is going to lead to an increase of breeding mixes. First of all, even though the AKC is allowing them, I seriously doubt they are going to be actively promoting the idea of mixing breeds for Agility. Recently I saw a post on a friend's facebook page to the effect that AKC is working on a new "education" campaign where they will be actively promoting the notion that "purebreds" are the perfect family dog, in direct and deliberate opposition to "shelter mixes" as family dogs. It is apparently a push back against encouragement that families are getting to look to shelters and rescues for their family dogs. Nice, huh? (For the record, I am not opposed to families, or anyone, seeking to get a well bred dog directly from a breeder. I am in the process of striving to do just that right now myself! I just happen to know that many "shelter mixes" can be excellent family dogs and I hate to see people mindlessly get dogs from puppymills producing "pure" breeds while overlooking some really great dogs in rescues and shelters.) So, I really don't see AKC promoting anything other than breed "purity" even with the inclusion of all types of dogs in the Agility. Second, I would expect that most of the dogs in the Agility competition won't be mixes. If anything, I would be concerned about people purchasing Border Collies (on impulse, without knowing much about them, etc) as a result, especially among those who will see Agility for the first time through watching this show and will see Border Collies run full out on Agility courses for the first time. I remember that I was blown away by it the first time I saw it and I really thought my then baby Border Collie absolutely HAD to do that. I honestly don't see the end result being a new demand for breeding mixes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJSwede Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Aren't all purebreds the result of someone's breeding experiments generations ago? Not sure I understand the urge to hate on cross breeds in general. If they produce unsound dogs, that's one thing. But I don't understand why the phenomenon itself needs all the rage it receives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Billadeau Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 In my opinion, the increase in hybrids being produced and sold for big money stems from the increasing reports on the declining genetic health of purebreds and the lack of understanding among the buying public on hybrid vigor and the reality of the genetic health of the hybrids being produced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kian's Mom Posted January 31, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Don't get me wrong I have had several Mutts over the years and some of them have been the best dogs. I have one now a GSD that I wouldn't trade for anything along with my Border Collie. I was brought up that a Mutt was anything that wasn't a purebred dog. I misunderstood about Westminster. I thought they were having a new class. I also realize that the purebred breeds we have today started as what I refer to as mutt with several different breeds involved to create one. Guess they are not referred to as mutts but designer breeds. I know someone who shows AKC agility and her dog is referred to as an All American Breed. I would also like to apologize for my terminology. I don't understand the reason behind most of these crosses a Horgie , this one looked like a husky on corgi legs. I have seen pictures of all the above and some are so cute. But I wouldn't go out an buy one on purpose. I realize probably the only one who know are the breeder but can anyone tell me on the breeds listed what would be the advantage of these crosses if any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 The difference between the designer mutts being sold and the creation of a new breed is this... When someone is trying to create a new breed, they mix different breeds together. But, their goal is to create dogs that breed true. Breeding true means you can predict what will happen with each litter. This will take a least a few generations and involves a closed gene pool. They quickly stop introducing new breeds and only mate dogs within their new breed that match the standard most closely. You can look at the Border Collie as an example of this process. Local herding dog breeds/types were crossed to create the founding ancestors and trials were used as the selection criteria for breeding. Eventually they became a closed breeding population because only Border Collies could meet the selection criteria. The designer mutt people are crossing purebreds for every single generations. The results are unpredictable. They then market those mutts as healthier because of hybrid vigor, which is a lie. For example, Labs and Poodles both suffer from HD, so Labradoodles can also suffer from HD. In fact, the worst cases of HD I have seen have been in these designer mutts. The ONLY place you really see hybrid vigor is in the immune system (wider variety of MHCs). Otherwise, the mutts are no healthier on average than their purebred parents. You could argue that the Labradoodles imported from the original Australian breeding program are now a breed since they have had a closed gene pool for so long. However, most Labradoodles sold in the USA are not from that gene pool. Instead people are buying Labs and Poodles and crossing them. The resulting pups are mutts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mum24dog Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I know someone who has been extremely successful in agility with his kelpies. He has also run at least one whippet, a pharaoh hound and a lurcher to my knowledge. He bred a litter of kelpie x whippets and I wish he wouldn't call them "kippets". However, the people who bought them wanted them for agility and wouldn't have been seduced by a fancy label. They knew what they were getting and he has a waiting list if he should repeat the experiment, which he has no current plans to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camden's Mom Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 It seems to me these dogs are being bred exclusively for their looks and because they are "unique". My niece is head over heels in love with the "Pomsky" mix (pomeranian and husky) and I can't argue that the things are freakin' adorable. Few people, this day and age, are bringing dogs into their homes as co-workers. Most people are just adding a family member, a pet to love and cherish. It serves no other purpose then emotional fulfillment but that still seems to me a pretty darn good motivation for getting a dog. So it's not surprising to me that many (not all) of these mixes are taking large dogs and mixing them with smaller, cuter dogs. If the dog is going to be adopted out as a family pet, being smaller has it's advantages and being cuter sure does make it more appealing to many pet owners. I don't take huge issue with these mixes, so long as the dogs are able to live healthy, sound, full lives. After all, we're just doing what we've been doing for many, many years: breeding dogs to suite our needs... even if the "needs" are very different these days. Why anyone would pay ridiculous amounts of money for one of these mixes/mutts... that is entirely beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Your niece, if interested in a Pomsky, should look into Alaska Klee Kais. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Camden's Mom Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Your niece, if interested in a Pomsky, should look into Alaska Klee Kais. I don't think she's making the leap into dog ownership anytime soon, but her and her husband have been talking about it more and more often. I can tell they've definitely got the itch. I'll send this info their way, thanks very much for the link, Liz!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sue R Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Maybe because "cute" is all you can say until the youngster starts to show what it can *do*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sekah Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Aren't all purebreds the result of someone's breeding experiments generations ago? Not sure I understand the urge to hate on cross breeds in general. If they produce unsound dogs, that's one thing. But I don't understand why the phenomenon itself needs all the rage it receives. This is a misnomer I see tossed around a lot when it comes to discussing the intentional crossbreeding of companion dogs. Clearly all breeds as we know them now used to be something else. However, I doubt that ye olde sheep farmers of yore took "B" breed and "C" breed and slammed them together to create the BC. They chose dogs based on their ability to work from dogs who had the ability to work. These dogs were chosen because they were good at doing the job which was required of them. They are a breed which was created through filling a working niche. So, the issue as I see it is people breeding dogs together for no purpose other than for selling pets. Therefore, there's no real force like the ability to work that is self-regulating the creation of these dogs. I don't even mind people breeding mixes for sport if it's done responsibly. It just gets my back up when I see people slapping dogs together for no other reason than to make a quick buck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shetlander Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Maybe because "cute" is all you can say until the youngster starts to show what it can *do*. So true. Plus we tend to be wired to say "Awww!" and "Cute!" when we see babies of many species. It helps keep the human race going. The more you bond to the tiny, needy, troublesome critters, the better you will tolerate the work involved in keeping them healthy, happy and safe. Not to mention the task civilizing them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nancy Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 I guess our Vamp was a lapherd (lab + shepherd), Fergie was a bordador (border collie + labrador). What would Dixie be? A jackollie, a bordekal, a borkal collie? We know the border collie - and everyone swears the other part must be jackal. I guess that I'm a Lithuafrancaglish? Lithuanian, French, English. But the Lithuanian has Austrian and Tartar. And the French is probably more Algonquinb. So is that Lithuaustratartagofrancaglish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juliepoudrier Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 The only thing that really strikes me about that list is the extreme oddity (IMO) of some of those combinations. There are some real WTF? crosses there.... J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liz P Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 You mean like Bull Shits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geonni banner Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PSmitty Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 Holy moly, if it's wrong to coo over adorable border collie puppies, I don't want to be right! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NJSwede Posted January 31, 2014 Report Share Posted January 31, 2014 The difference between the designer mutts being sold and the creation of a new breed is this... When someone is trying to create a new breed, they mix different breeds together. But, their goal is to create dogs that breed true. Breeding true means you can predict what will happen with each litter. This will take a least a few generations and involves a closed gene pool. They quickly stop introducing new breeds and only mate dogs within their new breed that match the standard most closely. You can look at the Border Collie as an example of this process. Local herding dog breeds/types were crossed to create the founding ancestors and trials were used as the selection criteria for breeding. Eventually they became a closed breeding population because only Border Collies could meet the selection criteria. The designer mutt people are crossing purebreds for every single generations. The results are unpredictable. They then market those mutts as healthier because of hybrid vigor, which is a lie. For example, Labs and Poodles both suffer from HD, so Labradoodles can also suffer from HD. In fact, the worst cases of HD I have seen have been in these designer mutts. The ONLY place you really see hybrid vigor is in the immune system (wider variety of MHCs). Otherwise, the mutts are no healthier on average than their purebred parents. You could argue that the Labradoodles imported from the original Australian breeding program are now a breed since they have had a closed gene pool for so long. However, most Labradoodles sold in the USA are not from that gene pool. Instead people are buying Labs and Poodles and crossing them. The resulting pups are mutts. Thanks! That was the best summary of the issue I've seen. I guess I was under the false impression that these hybrids were all bred from a single line (or a few lines) of ancestors. Makes sense now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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