Start Line Stay - how to teach it so it stays?

[speckle-legged dog]

I took my BC mix, Layla, to her second NADAC agility trial this past weekend. The fantastic thing is that she got 4 Q's (3 first place, 1 third) in Novice Standard. The bad news is that a start-line stay was totally out of the question. She was so excited I just had to point the doggie rocket launcher and fire while yelling out the name of the first thing. It worked, even on the two runs we didn't Q in she did very well and the mistakes were my fault. But it kept me a nervous wreck!

 

Layla LOVES agility and gets so excited that she just has very little impulse control. I have gotten serious this summer about working on a start line stay but I don't seem to have found a way to teach it so that it still works when she's so excited. At the beginning of class or practice she is too excited to stay also, but as the session goes on and she gears down she begins to comply. She did a great stay in her obedience classes as a puppy, and is good on the leash (for me, less so for my husband). Agility has been great for her, it was exciting for me to see her overcome fears she had about walking on strange surfaces and things that make noise. A little over a year ago this dog was afraid to even go through a tunnel, so this has really helped both of us, which is why I neglected the stay a bit too much to start with.

 

I readily admit to being ignorant, this is my first dog as an adult and I'm 48 years old. If she's not excited she's just about the best behaved dog anyone could ask for, she's perfect in the house.

[Root Beer]

Control Unleashed - the program was made for dogs just like yours!

 

It's a great foundation impulse control program. In the original book, the author does discuss training start line stays with dogs who get super excited. I'm not sure if she talks about that in the puppy book (which is the better book overall) or not.

[ChantalB]

No stay=no play.

[Root Beer]

No stay=no play.

 

This can be a useful approach, but it is imperative that you:

 

1. Be 100% sure that your dog truly understands the meaning of the stay cue. Many high energy dogs become frustrated fast if the dog really doesn't know what you want when a reinforcer is available, but access is not given.

 

Sometimes we think they know something well enough to understand what is desired in a high energy situation, just because the dog can be successful when the criteria is low, but that isn't always the case.

 

2. Increase criteria of the stay slowly, taking into account that generalization into new situations may not happen automatically.

 

I'll admit, I have started trialing before my dog's start line stay is 100% solid. If that is the case, I simply do not expect it in that context. We start together, which is something that I do sometimes in class, as well, so it is not an unusual proceeding for the dog.

 

Working start line stays on a warm up jump at a trial, if that jump is out of the way of the competition ring, can be a great way to start helping the dog generalize the behavior from training to competition.

 

You can also get creative right around the area where you live to incrementally increase the excitement level that your dog will experience when waiting in the stay.

[speckle-legged dog]

Thanks!

 

I keep seeing references to "Control Unleashed", so I probably ought to get that book next payday.

 

Layla absolutely fits #1 that you wrote below. She also uses the "stay" to bribe me for more and more treats during class and practice. She approaches me as "no treat, no sit", she absolutely knows "sit" and "stay" and has since she was a puppy, but she will turn her head away from me until the treats appear in class. In Monday night's class I took her back to her crate and put her in for a moment instead of letting her run when she would sit. I still used some treats, only way to get a result.

 

I have been trying to up the excitement level at home by having her sit and stay before I will "chuck" her tennis ball. I even put the leash back on her sometimes, walk her around, have her sit while I take it off then stay until I say "go" then chuck-it, trying to make a rather intricate game out of it. I will also continue to work with her on her stay at our Saturday practice, since that venue is smaller and I can't work on as much as I would now like course-wise and there are a lot of new beginners there to distract her.

 

She's a great little dog, but she has trouble being still in front of action she wants to get into.

 

This can be a useful approach, but it is imperative that you:

 

1. Be 100% sure that your dog truly understands the meaning of the stay cue. Many high energy dogs become frustrated fast if the dog really doesn't know what you want when a reinforcer is available, but access is not given.

 

Sometimes we think they know something well enough to understand what is desired in a high energy situation, just because the dog can be successful when the criteria is low, but that isn't always the case.

 

2. Increase criteria of the stay slowly, taking into account that generalization into new situations may not happen automatically.

 

I'll admit, I have started trialing before my dog's start line stay is 100% solid. If that is the case, I simply do not expect it in that context. We start together, which is something that I do sometimes in class, as well, so it is not an unusual proceeding for the dog.

 

Working start line stays on a warm up jump at a trial, if that jump is out of the way of the competition ring, can be a great way to start helping the dog generalize the behavior from training to competition.

 

You can also get creative right around the area where you live to incrementally increase the excitement level that your dog will experience when waiting in the stay.

[alligande]

Take advantage of NADACs training in the ring option, it means sacrificing Qs but the end result is worth it. We have great start lines and great 2on2offs because of this. If your dog learns that he can play agility without holding a start line then he might never, i am sure we all know plenty of dogs without one. But beware speaking from experience it takes a lot of human self discipline to pull your dog back to the start line regroup and start again. It takes even more to redo a contact when you know you are about to Q....

 

I would also second control unleashed, but you might just need to go back to basics in training and really enforce the start line, can you jump up and down like a banshee, run away, run the course without him, use the wrong words etc etc, These are all the stupid things I have done, and off course my dog gets well rewarded for staying. I do not have a strict criteria for the stay, I start with a sit, but he can lie if he wants, sometimes I let him stand, but he can not creep towards the jump. My dog is very high drive, and loves to run an agility course with me, but he has learned that the game only starts if he stays.

 

From dodgy start lines 18 months ago when we started competing, I can lead out 4 jumps with my back turned to him, sometimes it is the most impressive part of our run.

[dsmbc]

biggest Reasons dogs don't hold the stay: 1.person has not maintained criteria; 2. Person has not worked with high enough distractions or arousal of dog, 3. Dog does not have enough value in the stay, or 4. Dog does not know what is expected of them (related to criteria).

 

Take a travel jump and go all over town with it and ask your dog to sit/stay in front of it. let your dog be the guide with how much you progress or add distractions. Sometimes release the dog over the jump and sometimes throw a reward back at your dog. Keep increasing the distractions and arousal level of your dog while asking for a stay. In order to maintain criteria and make sure your dog understands what is expected, she never gets ro play if she doesn't maintain a stay - but be fair to your dog, don't ask for more then she is capable of, but do push her a little.

[speckle-legged dog]

Update: We will NEVER have a startline stay. I have tried so many things, and I have worked very hard, I do now have a dog who has tremdous self-control when I feed her and make her wait, when she has to wait at the door in and out, waits whenever I tell her. The only two times I got a startline stay out of her at a trial we had just awful runs. I just feel like the startline stay is the only thing that really matters sometimes when I read about agility. We will always look like frauds I guess, but I'm not going to just blow runs for it no matter how bad that makes me, I would soon quit agility out of frustration and feeling like I was a failure if I did that, I know me and I would hate the whole thing and Layla would absolutely know it and feel my frustration. Oh, and I never did train 2 on 2 off, that was way out of my league with this crazy little gal.

 

I have gotten so uptight about this whole startline business that I thought maybe I should just quit agilty anyway, I have literally worn a few people around me out with my fretting. And then we had a huge blow-up of a NADAC trial last spring when Layla decided that not only would she not stay but she would just run around in circles and not come back to me either (I had neglected to continue training her to return, I am so lost sometimes). I got her back into obedience after that bad experience and we worked and worked on the issue without trialing for a while and I am happy to say it is completely resolved and still worked on regularly so that it remains resolved. She returns like a charm.

 

If anyone has any links to information about people who handle without a startline stay, it would do this total idiot and fraud loads of good! I am enjoying this game but am plagued with knowing I'm doing it all wrong.

 

I absolutely do accept that it is all my fault, I did everything totally wrong from the start and am adamant about not doing what people tell me I must do to fix it, which is to blow runs at trials. No problem with responsibility on this one, I'll happily take it. I hadn't a clue how to train a dog and she was so over the top when we started agility that just getting her to focus and pay attention was huge, never mind the stay issue. She's still over the top, but pays really good attention to me now, once the run has commenced of course.

 

Since that original post I made we have continued in NADAC and are in Elite Regular and Tunnlers; Open - Touch and Go and Jumpers, and still Novice in Chances, Hoopers, and Weavers (I don't know what's wrong with us in weavers, Layla's weaves are awesome, but we've only just gotten into the groove on hoops). We also started AKC agility in June and are Open JWW and Open Standard along with Excellend FAST (Layla refused to put a paw on the teeter-totter for over a year, so we just didn't do AKC for a while). I'm doing absolutely everything wrong but we are having a great time and I am very proud of my girl. She's way too fast for my old bones but we have some decent distance. I only get upset when I start looking for agility links to read and see what a misfit I am in this little hobby. Layla however is a very confident dog who absolutely considers agility her job and loves it.

 

I know AKC is controversial, but there are a fair number of trials I can get to within 2 to 4 hours distance and since she's a Border Collie mix I just registered her as an All American Dog; and I have to say the people at the AKC trials I have attended have been extremely nice and helpful. Another thing I have learned in the past year is that we have both improved tremendously by going to more trials and enjoying those experiences. The anxiety really does flow down that leash, and the trials have helped me and that has helped her. (Did I mention the joke about the woman who was a walking anxiety disorder who walked into her local shelter and came out with the BC pup? No joke, she's me!).

 

I was just getting down in the dumps reading about startline stays online and ended up with a Google bringing me to my original post on the subject. Kind of like Googling Porsche, I might want one; but I'm not going to be getting one any time soon and for now my Honda isn't so bad.

[rufftie]

many fine agility dogs do not have a start line stay. it may make some things more difficult but not impossible. remember to run with the dog you have, not the dog you want. train for the dog you want. it is a journey. good luck.

my nova does have a lovely 2O2O, but only at home, never at a trial!

[Shetlander]

Ok, first off --for the vast majority of people, agility is a game we play with our dogs, right? It is something we started so we could have fun with our dog or build their confidence or improve our bond. Please don’t dampen that fun by comparing yourself to what all the “experts” (real and imagined) are saying. If this is your first agility dog, you are going to make so many mistakes and that is just how it is. With each dog you will be a better owner, trainer and handler. I have long said our first sports dogs deserve their own hall of fame for what we put them through. But they are also our first sports dogs and that makes them special right there. We learn so much with them and from them.

 

The fact is you need to decide what is important to you in agility and what your goals are for yourself and your dog. Those goals may be different than those of the average competitor or all of your friends. They are likely to be extremely different than the super driven competitors who want to get multiple MACHs, win national events or compete on the world team.

 

I no longer do agility, but I have seen a lot of fads come and go in the sport. How you MUST train various behaviors. What you MUST do to reward your dog (I remember reading article after article about how tugging was absolutely crucial – even if your dog didn’t like to tug, which my Shelties didn’t). How your dog MUST act in certain situations. There is lots of competing information out there and what is completely out of favor one year will come blazing back into being a MUST DO the next. As you gain experience, you will decide what is important for your team and how you want to approach the sport. If you decide to train another dog in the sport, I imagine you will train him or her completely differently based on your experiences and what you have learned with Layla. By the time I got Quinn, I literally had a notebook with plans for how to train various behaviors and yes, that included a rock solid start line stay. And was relieved he loved to tug right from the start.

 

So MUST you have a start line stay? It makes certain courses a lot easier to tackle, but if you want to live without one, you can certainly manage. It may be harder to Q some days, but as long as you and Layla are having fun, that is the most important thing, right? If you do decide you need a start line stay, then my guess is you will need to either find some cheap matches that do a good job of providing a trial atmosphere to excuse yourself if Layla blows the start line stay. Or else, bite the bullet and sacrifice a few runs in a trial situation so in the long run she will stay. If you need to excuse yourself repeatedly, she isn’t making the connection of breaking the stay to the fun ending and there is no point to keep excusing yourself. It isn’t an effective consequence or she is confused about what is bringing it about.

 

The last time I ran with my at times insecure Sheltie in agility, our start line stay went like this:

“Sit, Sassy. Sassy, sit. Sit…..OK! Stand. Stay. Stay. Sassy! Stay…. Ok! Let’s go!” And off we went to have a lovely little run on a twisty but fun course. Everyone else in our height division led out but we were one of a very small number of teams who qualified on that course. Now this was a dog who had previously had a good start line stay but over time grew less and less enthusiastic about showing. I had decided that was our last show before she entered an early retirement to be my training buddy at home. If she enjoyed going to trials more, could we have continued without a start line stay? If that was the only way, she felt confident running courses, sure. Would we have struggled more with some courses? Definitely. But if she would have been happy running that way, I would have dropped the start line stay by that point in her career. We all need to make choices of how to train and run (or if we even show) based on the dog in front of us and what we hope to achieve.

 

Just have fun with your girl. Time goes very quickly. My own girl is now 15, happy but in precarious health. My knees are such that I can no longer run. I would love if the two of us could still play agility in the back yard even, never mind run in shows. Enjoy this time you have with her and the special bond training and showing creates.

[Sekah]

 

That video is of Silvia Trkman running one of her Pyr Sheps at La WC in 2012. Note the lack of start line stay. Trkman has some of the best agility dogs in the world and one of them doesn't stay on a start line.

 

If you can't get a stay, don't fret it. Create another start line ritual for your dog, and get ready to run like hell.

[gcv-border]

I could offer more training tips for a start-line stay, but if you are willing to run, consider a slingshot start. I have seen several elite level handlers use them - one I know personally, and she was never able to teach her excitable dog a good start-line stay - so they adapted. If you set it up right (and some courses are better adapted to a slingshot start than others), you can get a little bit ahead of your dog - not as far ahead as a good lead out, but farther ahead than a running start as demo'd by Silvia Trkman in the video above.

[mum24dog]

 

That video is of Silvia Trkman running one of her Pyr Sheps at La WC in 2012. Note the lack of start line stay. Trkman has some of the best agility dogs in the world and one of them doesn't stay on a start line.

 

I don't think that you can assume that the dog doesn't have a start line stay from that video, only that ST decided not to use one on that occasion.

 

It's actually an easy start layout to dispense with a wait. I think even I could get ahead of a fast dog before it exited the tunnel. Plenty of courses would be doomed from the off for me without a wait option though.

[Sekah]

I don't think that you can assume that the dog doesn't have a start line stay from that video, only that ST decided not to use one on that occasion.

 

It's actually an easy start layout to dispense with a wait. I think even I could get ahead of a fast dog before it exited the tunnel. Plenty of courses would be doomed from the off for me without a wait option though.

 

True. However ST has publicly commented that Lo (I think) will never have a start line stay.

[dogrsqr]

My philosophy about agility has always been do what works for you and your dog. One size does not fit all!

 

I have never had a start line stay until my present dog(3 previous dogs had none). She is very fast and we had so many other things to work on, that I was unwilling to work on the start line and not get to run. A year and a half later I decided that I needed a start line stay in order for us to have any team work. This was my decision based on what my dog was doing in the ring, not based on what other people's criteria are. She simply did not see me as part of the agility experience and needed to show some impulse control in order to become a team mate.

 

I was pretty sure she never really knew what stay meant, even in obedience training. Often at agility class she would just get up and wander away from the start line, not even taking obstacles. I went back and trained the stay, starting with changing the word to "wait" just to start with a clean slate. I had gotten success with teaching her a contact behavior by using a flat PVC box so I decided that just maybe part of her lack of understanding was that she thinks very spatially and needed a visual line to understand. I first taught her to go into the box and lay down. Then I gradually worked on "wait", separately adding time and distance. When I felt that she actually understood this I started adding distractions, working from mild to strong distractions. All the time using her PVC box. When she was performing nearly 100% with distractions, I started fading the box, removing sides, going to smaller diameter PVC, until she was at the point of staying in class without the box.

 

Fast forward to trialing ....... Since we mostly run NADAC I tried putting her back when she broke, but that just lead to her thinking she only had to stay the second time. I eventually had to bite the bullet and every time she broke, we left the ring. First trial, only one day, she broke the first 5 "runs". It quickly got better from there. She now occasionally breaks, like maybe twice a year, knock on wood.

 

If you have a dog that is bidable and likes to play they should get the no stay - no play philosophy pretty quickly.

 

If you don't think you need a stay don't worry about it. If you do think you need a stay, there is hope. Go back to the very beginning and above all else BE CONSISTENT!

 

Gina and Abbey

[speckle-legged dog]

My philosophy about agility has always been do what works for you and your dog. One size does not fit all!

 

I have never had a start line stay until my present dog(3 previous dogs had none). She is very fast and we had so many other things to work on, that I was unwilling to work on the start line and not get to run. A year and a half later I decided that I needed a start line stay in order for us to have any team work. This was my decision based on what my dog was doing in the ring, not based on what other people's criteria are. She simply did not see me as part of the agility experience and needed to show some impulse control in order to become a team mate.

 

I was pretty sure she never really knew what stay meant, even in obedience training. Often at agility class she would just get up and wander away from the start line, not even taking obstacles. I went back and trained the stay, starting with changing the word to "wait" just to start with a clean slate. I had gotten success with teaching her a contact behavior by using a flat PVC box so I decided that just maybe part of her lack of understanding was that she thinks very spatially and needed a visual line to understand. I first taught her to go into the box and lay down. Then I gradually worked on "wait", separately adding time and distance. When I felt that she actually understood this I started adding distractions, working from mild to strong distractions. All the time using her PVC box. When she was performing nearly 100% with distractions, I started fading the box, removing sides, going to smaller diameter PVC, until she was at the point of staying in class without the box.

 

Fast forward to trialing ....... Since we mostly run NADAC I tried putting her back when she broke, but that just lead to her thinking she only had to stay the second time. I eventually had to bite the bullet and every time she broke, we left the ring. First trial, only one day, she broke the first 5 "runs". It quickly got better from there. She now occasionally breaks, like maybe twice a year, knock on wood.

 

If you have a dog that is bidable and likes to play they should get the no stay - no play philosophy pretty quickly.

 

If you don't think you need a stay don't worry about it. If you do think you need a stay, there is hope. Go back to the very beginning and above all else BE CONSISTENT!

 

Gina and Abbey

 

Thanks! I was almost afraid to come back here after posting that (at least right before leaving for a trial). Layla is scary fast, but she's also become VERY observant of me during runs. If she takes a cue wrong 10 - 1 I gave a poor or late cue. I have been getting that team feeling during the last couple of trials and in practice. I really like that feeling. Only once did her no-stay bite us in the butt at the last trial, and I could have still pulled that one out if I had anticipated the course better and run straight for the fourth obstacle and let her take the first three in line like she did; so really it was more my funble than hers in the end.

 

It's nice to know that there are folks who feel I can start over if I need or want to, but just keep on going if I don't. Since the disaster back in April though, we've done nothing but get more in synch except for the one trial where I did get a couple of stays out of her, then we didn't mesh for the rest of the run. I guess I just hear and read about the mighty STAY so much that I feel like people probably look at Layla and say "nice run, BUT no stay, LOSER HANDLER!" LOL. It has really gotten into my head enough to cause me a lot of needless worry. And I'm pretty sure one terrier lady thinks I'm a complete basket case after we had the "stay" conversation in the local dog botique (where she was the millionth person who said I had to get one).

[speckle-legged dog]

 

That video is of Silvia Trkman running one of her Pyr Sheps at La WC in 2012. Note the lack of start line stay. Trkman has some of the best agility dogs in the world and one of them doesn't stay on a start line.

 

If you can't get a stay, don't fret it. Create another start line ritual for your dog, and get ready to run like hell.

 

That's awesome! Actually, I did something very similar at our last trial because I was afraid the leash wouldn't hit the ground before she made it through the hoop to start. Not that I have moved anything like Silvia Trkman can for about 20 years, LOL. But I did find that it helped us to do that.

[speckle-legged dog]

I could offer more training tips for a start-line stay, but if you are willing to run, consider a slingshot start. I have seen several elite level handlers use them - one I know personally, and she was never able to teach her excitable dog a good start-line stay - so they adapted. If you set it up right (and some courses are better adapted to a slingshot start than others), you can get a little bit ahead of your dog - not as far ahead as a good lead out, but farther ahead than a running start as demo'd by Silvia Trkman in the video above.

 

I will be very happy for and try any tip that does not include blowing runs at trials. I enjoy training Layla and would certainly be glad to incorporate anything I haven't considered.

[speckle-legged dog]

Ok, first off --for the vast majority of people, agility is a game we play with our dogs, right? It is something we started so we could have fun with our dog or build their confidence or improve our bond. Please don’t dampen that fun by comparing yourself to what all the “experts” (real and imagined) are saying. If this is your first agility dog, you are going to make so many mistakes and that is just how it is. With each dog you will be a better owner, trainer and handler. I have long said our first sports dogs deserve their own hall of fame for what we put them through. But they are also our first sports dogs and that makes them special right there. We learn so much with them and from them.

 

The fact is you need to decide what is important to you in agility and what your goals are for yourself and your dog. Those goals may be different than those of the average competitor or all of your friends. They are likely to be extremely different than the super driven competitors who want to get multiple MACHs, win national events or compete on the world team.

 

I no longer do agility, but I have seen a lot of fads come and go in the sport. How you MUST train various behaviors. What you MUST do to reward your dog (I remember reading article after article about how tugging was absolutely crucial – even if your dog didn’t like to tug, which my Shelties didn’t). How your dog MUST act in certain situations. There is lots of competing information out there and what is completely out of favor one year will come blazing back into being a MUST DO the next. As you gain experience, you will decide what is important for your team and how you want to approach the sport. If you decide to train another dog in the sport, I imagine you will train him or her completely differently based on your experiences and what you have learned with Layla. By the time I got Quinn, I literally had a notebook with plans for how to train various behaviors and yes, that included a rock solid start line stay. And was relieved he loved to tug right from the start.

 

So MUST you have a start line stay? It makes certain courses a lot easier to tackle, but if you want to live without one, you can certainly manage. It may be harder to Q some days, but as long as you and Layla are having fun, that is the most important thing, right? If you do decide you need a start line stay, then my guess is you will need to either find some cheap matches that do a good job of providing a trial atmosphere to excuse yourself if Layla blows the start line stay. Or else, bite the bullet and sacrifice a few runs in a trial situation so in the long run she will stay. If you need to excuse yourself repeatedly, she isn’t making the connection of breaking the stay to the fun ending and there is no point to keep excusing yourself. It isn’t an effective consequence or she is confused about what is bringing it about.

 

The last time I ran with my at times insecure Sheltie in agility, our start line stay went like this:

“Sit, Sassy. Sassy, sit. Sit…..OK! Stand. Stay. Stay. Sassy! Stay…. Ok! Let’s go!” And off we went to have a lovely little run on a twisty but fun course. Everyone else in our height division led out but we were one of a very small number of teams who qualified on that course. Now this was a dog who had previously had a good start line stay but over time grew less and less enthusiastic about showing. I had decided that was our last show before she entered an early retirement to be my training buddy at home. If she enjoyed going to trials more, could we have continued without a start line stay? If that was the only way, she felt confident running courses, sure. Would we have struggled more with some courses? Definitely. But if she would have been happy running that way, I would have dropped the start line stay by that point in her career. We all need to make choices of how to train and run (or if we even show) based on the dog in front of us and what we hope to achieve.

 

Just have fun with your girl. Time goes very quickly. My own girl is now 15, happy but in precarious health. My knees are such that I can no longer run. I would love if the two of us could still play agility in the back yard even, never mind run in shows. Enjoy this time you have with her and the special bond training and showing creates.

 

This probably sounds crazy, with no stay, but I have some decent goals for Layla; I would really like to get her running at Master level at some point; and I actually think she could do it. I will just keep working and trialing and trying to enjoy the process. She is very attentive except for the stay. I think a lot of her and want to try to get her to reach her potential, whatever that is. I feel like she deserves a better hander than me, but at least she gets to do this since I'm unskilled rather than just unwilling to try.

[Blackdawgs]

I've been having start-line problems with my very fast drivey young dog--breaking, creeping, and vulturing. I was going to bag fighting at the start-line. In a last ditch effort, I've been teaching him to do a trick (beg) at the start-line. So far, this is working beautifully--begging gives him something to think about at the start, engages his abdominal muscles, gets him off his forehand, and is simply incompatable with breaking, creeping, and vulturing. Last night, I tried in class for the first time-- he did break once out of several starts, but there was no creeping.

 

Initially I trained out of the agility context using treats, then switched to toys. Then moved to my yard gradually increasing my leadout from a jump or tunnel. At first, I rewarded by throwing a toy, now the reward is being released to the obstacle. Still need to work on duration of begging, but I think that this is a strength issue

[Root Beer]

I could offer more training tips for a start-line stay, but if you are willing to run, consider a slingshot start. I have seen several elite level handlers use them - one I know personally, and she was never able to teach her excitable dog a good start-line stay - so they adapted. If you set it up right (and some courses are better adapted to a slingshot start than others), you can get a little bit ahead of your dog - not as far ahead as a good lead out, but farther ahead than a running start as demo'd by Silvia Trkman in the video above.

 

I was going to suggest a sling shot, too. Although Dean can do a start line stay, I love sling shot starts and will choose one over a start line stay any time I can!

 

To the OP - it's a game. I say make it work for you in the best way you can. It's not worth fighting World War III over for a skill you can actually do without.

[mum24dog]

True. However ST has publicly commented that Lo (I think) will never have a start line stay.

 

OK - but she can run. Many of us can't.

 

And if you have the skills to teach good directional cues and discrimination at a distance it makes it all the easier.

[mum24dog]

I could offer more training tips for a start-line stay, but if you are willing to run, consider a slingshot start.

 

Just curious, what is it that you guys call a "slingshot start"?

[alligande]

There are plenty of decent handlers who do not have a start line stay. I have never heard anyone critised for not having one, if it's not important to you then don't worry. I have worked hard for Rievaulxs start line and on most courses it gives me a slight chance to be able to stay ahead, but it can also get me into trouble. With my first dog Brody I gave up using one as he was not that motivated by agility and been made to wait just made it even less exciting.

[mum24dog]

Dog 1 - No wait with me because he couldn't bear for me to leave him and he was Soooooooo excited. He would wait for my daughter so I let her run him.

 

Dog 2 - I was determined to get her to wait and tried too hard. She would wait most of the time but it flattened her. I'm not fast enough to do a running start so that was another one that my daughter took over.

 

Dog 3 - Never bothered to teach him a wait as he got stage fright on the line and it was important to get him moving asap.

 

Dog 4 - Will wait but I don't usually make him as he's like Brody.

 

Dog 5 - A wait essential to get control from the start and is always made to do it. Not many runs have needed to be thrown because he's broken his wait. One thing he does understand is No wait - No fun as someone said earlier in this thread.

 

Dogs 2 and 4 have been by far the most successful which just goes to show that one size doesn't fit all.