Doxy and stomachs

[kelpiegirl]

Lucy is on Doxy for presumptive TBD. She tested negative for anaplasma/lyme, but her symptoms (much lowered endurance, jaw pain, decreased appetite) made the vet feel that she needed to be treated for a tbd (tick borne disease). Now, for the first time in her life, two weeks prior to this she had a 1/2 way engorged tick on her.

 

Anyway, Lucy has no appetite for her morning meal. She will eat a couple cat treats that I throw my cats when I leave (she sneaks them), but will not eat her biscuit, or her food. She just turns away. Generally at night she will eat her meal, but sometimes not that.

 

This weekend I offered her a piece of a buttered hard roll, and she tried to bury it.

 

So, my question is, does Doxy mess with dog's interest in eating? Should I be concerned? It's odd. This dog always eats well. At this point she's eating a bit less than a cup per day. She's 37 lbs.

[juliepoudrier]

Yes, doxy can cause symptoms of GI upset. Let me go find the link with information that's great for this issue....

 

J.

[juliepoudrier]

Here's the link.

 

Here's the relevant information (bolded for your convenience):

Caution: Do not give out-of-date doxycycline! Tetracycline drugs can cause kidney damage if given after their expiration dates.

 

When giving doxycycline, be sure to give it with food, just before a meal or with it. Unlike other tetracyclines, doxy is not greatly affected by the calcium in dairy products; so, while you should err on the safe side and not feed a lot of them, it's not necessary to worry about poking a tablet in a small amount of cheese or slipping a capsule in a spoonful of yogurt if that will help get it down your dog.

 

Tablets appear to be easier on the dog. Capsules may stick in the esophagus and cause irritation if they dissolve and release the doxy there instead of in the stomach so, if you use capsules, butter them or coat them in grease to make them go down easily.

 

Opening capsules or breaking tablets may also irritate the esophagus.

 

If your dog is nauseated by being given the dose for a 12 hour period all at once, you can divide the dose and give half that amount twice in 12 hours, 4 half doses in 24 hours; as long as he gets all he needs in a day, that's all that counts. Always, however, give it with food.

 

Tetracyclines, including doxycycline, can sometimes cause yellowing of the teeth that are still being formed in the gums. The teeth of pups six months or older shouldn't be affected. Amoxicillin at 20 mg/kg PO (by mouth) for eight weeks can be used instead for Lyme disease but it is useless in the treatment of ehrlichiosis.

 

Since doxy is the most effective of the drugs you can use to fight ehrlichiosis, most forms of which are very dangerous, you have to ask yourself, in the case of a very young pup, if you really care that much about yellowed teeth.

 

Doxycycline is an antibiotic. All antibiotics destroy or inhibit bacteria and don't differentiate "good" from "bad"; they wipe out beneficial bacteria in the dog's gut right along with the disease-causing organisms. It's a wise idea, then, to give the dog probiotics as long as he's taking doxycycline and for several weeks afterward to avoid the gastrointestinal problems that can develop if he's left without this help for eight weeks or more.

 

Probiotics such as lactobacillus acidophilus are available in capsules in health food stores. Plain yogurt with active cultures is also useful but probably not as effective. Stoneyfield is one of the most recommended brands of yogurt. Be sure there is no flavoring or sugar in the kind you buy.

 

Important! Give probiotics two hours "after" doxycycline.

 

Because doxy will curtail reproduction of the beneficial bacteria you've given your dog in the form of probiotics, you have to keep giving them after every dose. If you give probiotics before the doxy has cleared the dog's digestive system, you may as well not bother. So stick to the two hour delay and keep it up after every dose of the antibiotic until a few weeks after your dog's treatment is over.

 

One last note on doxycycline. It is processed mainly through the liver and a dog with a damaged liver may not be able to take it. Amoxicillin, on the other hand, leaves through the kidneys and is an acceptable alternative to doxy as a treatment for Lyme as long as the dog doesn't have renal disease. (Amoxicillin is not effective against ehrlichiosis.) More than likely, your vet will have done a CBC and serum chemistry before putting your dog on any treatment for TBD and will have identified any problem areas to take into account, so this is just a heads up.

 

If the dog still has problems with nausea, you can ask your vet about giving him Reglan (metaclopromide). Pepcid AC has also been said to help a lot with nausea.

 

October 2007 update: There have been reports on Tick List of dogs which react badly to doxycycline. Until now, only a few people have reported that doxycycline caused their dogs to have serious problems with the liver and have had strong evidence to back up their assertions. Recently, however, a number of Standard Poodles infected with A. phagocytophilum (E. equi) showed an alarming rise in levels of ALT on bloodtests, levels which began to fall when the doxy was stopped. Whether this is a peculiarity restricted mostly to that breed, or a few lines in that breed, is unknown.

 

This points up the wisdom, however, of doing regular bloodtests throughout a dog's treatment and at wider intervals afterward.

 

In the event that your dog has a similar reaction, stopping or reducing the amount of doxycycline is an obvious first step. You can then determine whether or not to try one of the alternatives to this antibiotic. One of the other tetracyclines, minocycline, for instance, may be just different enough not to cause this odd reaction. Chloramphenicol might be used, though the precautions for the human giver "must" be followed carefully.

 

If you consider Imizol, which carries a caution about its use in dogs with compromised livers, lungs or kidneys, be certain your vet has read the product label and follow his or her advice.

 

In this instance, as always, your best resource is a vet who is thoroughly conversant with tick-borne disease.

 

The above is from Gil. Ash's excellent site on tick diseases.

 

J.

[WWBC]

doxy can affect their appetites, especially at the doses recommended to treat TBD. I currently have a dog on doxy and his appetite is improved.....one of the suggestions I read here: http://sites.google.com/site/blackgsd/ canine tick borne disease information page, suggested giving the dog probiotics a couple of hours after every dose of doxy, theory being you are killing good bugs(stomach flora) along with the bad bugs. I am not doing it after every dose, what I did was go to TSC and get a lg tube of Probios over in the horse section, it is just a gel with all the good bugs concentrated in it. So in the mornings, 3 or 4 hours after the morning round of doxy I squeeze out about 1 inch or a little less of the gel and place it on the back of his tongue, he will actually eat it on a dog biscuit. That is working well for my dog, maybe it will help your dog too. TBDs suck.

[kelpiegirl]

Thanks Julie for that link. WWBC, that's good to know- I can get that today, as I was heading there anyway.

[gcv-border]

Here's the link.

 

Here's the relevant information (bolded for your convenience):

The above is from Gil. Ash's excellent site on tick diseases.

 

J.

 

 

Julie,

Thank you for that EXCELLENT link. I agree that probiotics can help - just from my own personal experience. (Both of my dogs have been on either doxy or amoxi without much decrease in appetite. The main side effect has been loose stools - for which I used probiotics.)

 

Two interesting points I noticed: It was recommended to give probiotics 2 hours AFTER the doxy tablet. When I was on doxy for Lyme disease, my doctor told me to take a probiotic tablet (available at health food stores) at least 1 hour BEFORE take the doxy tablet. Over a period of 30 days, I forgot to take the probiotic tablet twice and boy, did my stomach pay for it. Anyway, whatever works is best. (My experience with Lyme disease was about 10 years ago, so I am sure that today more is known about how to treat the side effects of doxy, etc.)

 

Also, I willl have to talk to my vet with regard to the amoxi treatment for erlichiosis. One of my dogs just finished a 28 day treatment of amoxi twice per day for erlichiosis. I remember him prescribing amoxi because he felt it worked better than doxy for erlichiosis, but now I am doubting my memory. I will need to revisit that with him.

 

Jovi

[pansmom]

My Vala has been on doxy and IVM on and off for 9 months, to treat her for a particularly bad case of heartworms. I can vouch personally that yes, it does affect appetite. But its other abilities make it worth it...

[juliepoudrier]

[Julie,

Two interesting points I noticed: It was recommended to give probiotics 2 hours AFTER the doxy tablet. When I was on doxy for Lyme disease, my doctor told me to take a probiotic tablet (available at health food stores) at least 1 hour BEFORE take the doxy tablet. Over a period of 30 days, I forgot to take the probiotic tablet twice and boy, did my stomach pay for it. Jovi

Jovi,

On another forum I'm on this discussion came up and someone else gave the same information you did (1 hour before). I don't know which is correct. I'd probably just try both methods and see which works better. Come to think of it, I was on antibiotics recently after a dog bite and the doctor had me take probiotics too, but now I don't remember what the recommended timing was.

 

What makes intuitive sense to me is that you would want to add the good microbes back in *after* the doxy has cleared the GI system and done all the damage it's going to do (i.e., killing everything). If you take the probiotic before the doxy, wouldn't you just be consigning what you just ingested to death by doxy an hour later?

 

Actually if I had a dog going on doxy and was concerned about when to give probiotics, I'd probably just go ahead and post the question to Tick-L and see what the response is. In fact, I think I'll go do that now. I'll let you know what the folks over there say.

 

J.

[juliepoudrier]

From the folks on Tick-L:

 

What I remember is 2 hours after the doxy, to let the doxy clear out of the way, and give the pro's time to be in the digestive system before the anti's come through again. Use high potency, multi-species probiotics.

 

and

 

Two hours, just picked up a bottle human grade at the health food store and it says on the label : if you are on any type of antibiotics wait two hours after your meal before taking probios ...

 

and

 

I gave 2 hours after.

 

J.