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I have friends who need their dogs on planes. I had friends who cheated.


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#1 Donald McCaig

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 07:35 AM

https://www.nytimes....WT.nav=top-news



#2 Jexa

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 02:35 PM

Falsely claiming a service dog irritates me so much simply because it undermines those who ACTUALLY need a service dog. It is incredible what a true service dog can do. They and their handlers don't deserve to have to put up with this BS brought about by liars and their ill behaved dogs.

Unfortunately most businesses are hesitant to kick out false service dogs for fear of negative backlash in the social media age. They are only allowed to ask if the dog performs a task that aids the handler's disability. Per the law, however, ANY dog who is misbehaving can be legally kicked out regardless of what the owner claims. I wish more businesses had the gumption to do so, to preserve goodwill for those who need a legitimate service dog.

#3 gcv-border

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 04:25 PM

I watched a news segment that addressed this issue. It mirrored the NYT article, but also noted that the new 'requirements' should not be too onerous on legitimate Service Animals/ESAs as they should already have the documentation. The reporter also demonstrated how easy it is to get a letter 'signed' by a mental health professional - there is an online service that takes less than 5 minutes to get the letter.


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#4 aschlemm

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Posted 21 January 2018 - 08:09 PM

Over the summer I was in a Weis grocery store and saw a man entering with a lizard on his shoulder.  It was completely unrestrained, no collar, leash or harness.  He went with the lizard to the produce area.  When I was checking out I mentioned this to the clerk.  She said "Oh, I know who you mean, it's an emotional support animal, we received a notice last week that even if someone comes in with a snake, if it is an emotional support animal, we have to allow it."  I asked, "What about salmonella?  Reptiles naturally harbor salmonella.  The lizard is unrestrained, what is stopping it from jumping into the produce and spreading salmonella?"  They just gave me a look and then said that they didn't like it either.  I like lizards, actually, I thought it was cute, just not in the grocery store.  When I got home I got on the Weis website and sent in a complaint, along with an article on salmonella in reptiles but I never heard back. 



#5 D'Elle

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Posted 22 January 2018 - 03:02 PM

Doesn't seem to me that it is extreme, as the article says some are saying, to request heath documentation online prior to the flight.  If a human passenger needs special attention, like help boarding or a wheelchair, it is required that they notify online prior to the flight. Seems to me essentially the same kind of thing.

 

It also wouldn't seem the least bit unreasonable to require that the animal be on some sort of restraining device, collar or harness, or if a snake then in a carrier.

 

Service dogs are on leash all the time when in public; it is part of the communication system between the dog and the handler.

 

I think emotional support animals should have exactly the same privileges as service animals, because what they do is every bit as important. But having them well trained, well behaved, and on leash or otherwise controllable is by no means too much to ask, nor is verification of rabies vaccination.  How to assure that they are well behaved before getting on a flight? Not so easy.

 

Sugar gliders are not opossums as the article says. Different species. Being such tiny pocket-size animals it seems to me it would be easy to take one on board and no one be the wiser.

 

It is not really that easy to catch salmonella from a reptile, although I do agree with the sentiment that they should be restrained and in control at all times in a public place, for their safety as well as others'.


D'Elle

and family.

Left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that?" --Jester:  2001 - June 24 2016. Remembered with much love.
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

And not pictured, Benjamin the cat, who thinks he is a small border collie with superpowers.

 

 

 


#6 Petes Mom

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 10:32 AM

This was all before the Dexter the Peacock incident.  Now, things are going to get really tough, getting your dog on board in the cabin.



#7 gcv-border

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Posted 03 February 2018 - 02:15 PM

This was all before the Dexter the Peacock incident.  Now, things are going to get really tough, getting your dog on board in the cabin.

Is it true that the airline told the owner several times PRIOR TO the flight date, that the peacock would not be allowed to fly as an ESA (or whatever the owner was calling him)?  And yet, the owner showed up, with peacock in tow, to fly anyway?


Jovi

"Folks will know how large your soul is by the way you treat a dog."  Charles F. Duran


#8 Donald McCaig

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 08:52 AM

https://www.nytimes....ol-right-region



#9 Donald McCaig

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Posted 05 February 2018 - 08:52 AM

https://www.nytimes....ol-right-region



#10 Carol Lea Benjamin

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Posted 06 February 2018 - 11:05 AM

When people see dogs in places where dogs are not allowed unless they are helping their human partner, they are quick to note reasons why the dog is not a real service dog.  I would suggest they look not only at the dog, but also at the human.  When working with a service dog partner, part of your attention is always on the dog - as his or hers is on you.  It's not the size of the dog in the vest but the relationship between dog and handler that counts.  It's visible. You know it when you see it at a trial or on a farm.  it's not hard to recognize on a plane or at the bank or anywhere else pets are not allowed and people are inspired to cheat. Service dogs are not perfect. But for the most part, they tend to be unobtrusive and because they are trained to focus on their person, they are always aware of when they are needed and know precisely what to do about that.

 

People who cheat with untrained dogs, snakes, beavers or even peacocks are making things more difficult for people who already have a more difficult time because of some disability.  It's sad that after things got better and better for those of us navigating the world with genuine service dogs that now, once again, we are getting screamed at and being told we are gaming the system. I, for one, am delighted the airlines are backtracking on their comfort animal policy.  I have all the credentials I need to get on a plane and my dog can go through the metal detector naked so that there's no buckle or leash clip to make it ding.  More than that, lovely as they are from a distance, I have no desire to share an armrest with a peacock or to find out that the person sitting next to me has one of those comfort spiders I keep hearing about.  



#11 aschlemm

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Posted 07 February 2018 - 07:42 PM

Don't forget the Emotional Support Lizard.  I know I won't.  Each time I go to the Weis and see the salad bar I picture that lizard dancing a jig in it and I think "Nah, I'll pass on salad!"



#12 terrecar

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Posted 08 February 2018 - 08:41 PM

http://cbsloc.al/2C4XWhi

Then there is the woman who flushed her emotional support hamster down the toilet at BWI when Spirit Airlines wouldn’t allow her to board with it.

#13 GentleLake

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Posted 22 February 2018 - 11:03 AM

I think we may be reaching a tipping point where something will finally be done.

 

https://www.cbsnews....light-man-says/

 

Unfortunately, this article doesn't give any specifics about whether this dog was actually an emotional support animal or service dog, though it suggests the former.

 

Other outlets refer to the dog as a service dog. https://www.abcactio...ng-to-passenger


"People in your life always come and go all the time; the dogs are always there for me. Always." ~Samantha Valle


#14 D'Elle

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Posted 23 February 2018 - 11:54 AM

Seems to me that the main problem of whether or not it is a service dog could be solved by having a standardized test that all potential service dogs would need to pass, whereupon they get a standard scan-able ID card, and then there is something that a shop owner or airline can ask for before permitting the dog inside or onboard.

 

That wouldn't be too much to ask of the people who have service dogs, it seems to me. Especially since you have to show photo ID for yourself so much of the time these days, and always to get on an airplane.

 

Of course, the test and ID would also need to be renewed periodically. And shouldn't cost the owners, so that it is not a hardship. That would still permit owners to train their own dogs, as well.

 

With the emotional support animal, it's a bit trickier. I truly do believe that people should be permitted to have emotional support animals, who are allowed to accompany them on air flights in particular. But again, there should be a standard test, and a scan-able ID card that states that the dog has passed the test.

 

If these tests were fairly rigorous, not just the CGC or something equally easy, that would take care of a certain aspect of the problem. A peacock, for instance, is not going to pass the test. Nor is a lizard, or a chicken, nor would a hamster be likely to do so.  It would limit the emotional support animals essentially to dogs, unless someone could actually train another animal to pass the test.

 

The test would involve such things as staying quietly under a table or chair for long periods of time, ignoring other people or animals under all circumstances, responding to the handler even in highly distracting conditions, remaining quiet in one place when told etc.

 

The owner would also be held to a certain standard of behavior, most especially being aware at all times where their animal is and telling unaware people that this animal is not to be approached or petted or talked to. If this were a rigorously held standard there would not be nearly as many incidents as there are now. And if a person or animal stepped outside of the standard, there could be a penalty for that, which would include removal of the ID card's validity until further training is done and a new test is passed.

 

No matter what you do there are people who will go outside the rules. But making it possible for the individual to do it correctly and prove they have done so would be very likely to cut down significantly on the number of people getting away with what they shouldn't.


D'Elle

and family.

Left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that?" --Jester:  2001 - June 24 2016. Remembered with much love.
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

And not pictured, Benjamin the cat, who thinks he is a small border collie with superpowers.

 

 

 


#15 terrecar

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 04:57 PM

I agree with D'elle that there needs to be a fairly rigorous test for ESA's, and this is from someone who has derived emotional comfort from more than one dog in my lifetime.

 

After landing in my second foster home at the age of 14 with PTSD, I was so frightened of EVERYTHING (except, oddly, dogs) that I would not go to sleep for fear of the nightmares. I don't mean to sound overly dramatic, but... a dog saved me.

 

Still, Hannah would not be of any help in a situation where I felt imminent harm [ETA: other than at home], mostly because I would worry about HER being harmed. LOL!  Go figure.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that there are those who can be served by an ESA. However, I agree (again) with D'elle. It seems a dog would be the most reasonable choice; certainly not a lizard.



#16 cwb3

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 01:45 PM

What if you are the DOG's emotional support animal?  I guess we are doing it wrong! :unsure:



#17 D'Elle

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 07:16 PM

One thing I have observed is that people who have real service dogs are always aware of where their dog is, and they tell people not to pet the dog and/or have a No Petting patch on the harness. They protect their dogs as much as the dogs serve them. I see a person with a dog on the end of a leash wearing a service dog vest and the owner is just going along paying no attention to the dog, and I figure that's not a real service dog.

 

I want to train and have an ESA dog. I have good reason for having one. But there is no place where I can get help or official training for this, nor would the dog legally have all access and I think there should be such.

 

There is a place where I live that does official service dog training, but not ESA training. Of course it's easy to find someone who will charge you a lot of money to train your dog and get you some kind of ID and I know people who think that makes their ESA a Service Dog. They put on the vest and take the dog everywhere with them, into doctor's offices, cafes and so on.  But they don't have an actual disability according to law as written. They have emotional needs. They don't want to hear that this isn't actually legal.  No one dares challenge them because they have a vest and ID.

 

 I want there to be a way it can be legal.


D'Elle

and family.

Left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that?" --Jester:  2001 - June 24 2016. Remembered with much love.
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

And not pictured, Benjamin the cat, who thinks he is a small border collie with superpowers.

 

 

 


#18 urge to herd

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Posted 28 February 2018 - 10:41 AM

D'Elle, you might contact Bergin Institute for Canine Studies. Bonnie Bergin is a leader in breeding/raising/training dogs for work other than with blind folks. I can get you contact info if you like. They might be able to point you in a good direction.

 

Good luck ~ I don't believe I have the level of need for an ESA that some folks do, but I know my life is much better with a dog.

 

Ruth & Gibbs



#19 D'Elle

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 11:13 AM

Thanks, Ruth. I will Google it and if no luck will PM you for info. :-)


D'Elle

and family.

Left to right: Kit, Jester, Boo, Digger

 

 

Mydogs12-2013Smaller.jpg
"You gonna throw that?" --Jester:  2001 - June 24 2016. Remembered with much love.
"I'm grouchier than you are" --Kit

"I love everyone!" -- Boo

(Boing! Boing! Boing!)--Digger

And not pictured, Benjamin the cat, who thinks he is a small border collie with superpowers.

 

 

 


#20 GentleLake

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Posted 08 March 2018 - 10:56 PM

Arby's has a new TV ad out featuring three of their sandwiches. It ends with "You could travel across the country to try these three legendary sandwiches, but apparently you can't bring your therapy peacock on a plane." :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

https://www.ispot.tv...therapy-peacock


"People in your life always come and go all the time; the dogs are always there for me. Always." ~Samantha Valle



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