Bring the ball ALL the way back

[ericspin]

My pup, Matsi, is 5 months and trips me out every day. We are becoming best of buds and he and I play fetch every night after work. He loves to go catch the ball but only brings it back half way. When I say "bring me the ball", he just circles it but won't pick it up and bring it to me. Some days he brings it closer than others. I have two terriers that like to play the game too but they tire of it quickly whereas Matsi will chase it forever. Suggestion? It seems like the older he gets the better he does but I don't want to reinforce a bad behavior by going to get the ball where he dropped it (hmmm, maybe he is training me). When he still has it in his mouth and I say "bring it all the way" he will typically just drop it, what gives?

 

Thanks,

Eric

[Aerie]

Recon did that when she was a pup. I'm super lazy, and I figured, hey - she's the active one, she needs to work for it....(ok, i'm really lazy)

 

anyway, if she brought the ball but dropped it far from me, i'd just ignore it. I'd pet combat or stare off into space or twiddle my thumbs. Sometimes I waited a LONG time. Eventually she started pushing the ball/toy with her nose towards me. Every time she pushed it closer, I praised her, but I didn't touch the ball till she pushed it all the way to me.

 

It took about 3 days of this, but now she brings it all the way back. Sometimes she'll still drop it far off, but if I say to her "all the way", she'll pick it up and follow through.

 

Anywho, dunno if that'll work for you, but it's worth a shot.

[Kat's Dogs]

Dazzle used to do that ALL the time. She would just drop the ball about 20 feet from me, circle it, and then lay down and watch it.

 

What worked for her is basically what Aerie said. I just waited. But because her eyes would occasionally look back at me I would be looking at the ball. Little buy little, she would go and grab it, walk a few feet closer and then drop it again. Eventually, when she got ALL the way back I gave her a ton of praise and immediately another throw. Took a few days for her to really get it and just come straight back without stopping at all. Then occasionally she would do it every now and then if she was in the mood to test me.

 

After that I just taught her a formal retrieve (she has to go and get it, then come all the way back to me. then sit in front of me with the ball in her mouth until I take it from her) and she hasn't really done it since. Unless she is tired (which she will NEVER admit) so these days the play just stops and we go home when she does that because it means she is done.

[jackpine]

Dazzle used to do that ALL the time. She would just drop the ball about 20 feet from me, circle it, and then lay down and watch it.

 

What worked for her is basically what Aerie said. I just waited. But because her eyes would occasionally look back at me I would be looking at the ball. Little buy little, she would go and grab it, walk a few feet closer and then drop it again. Eventually, when she got ALL the way back I gave her a ton of praise and immediately another throw. Took a few days for her to really get it and just come straight back without stopping at all. Then occasionally she would do it every now and then if she was in the mood to test me.

 

After that I just taught her a formal retrieve (she has to go and get it, then come all the way back to me. then sit in front of me with the ball in her mouth until I take it from her) and she hasn't really done it since. Unless she is tired (which she will NEVER admit) so these days the play just stops and we go home when she does that because it means she is done.

 

 

I've been lucky I guess. With Bucky, I throw it, whatever it is, and he runs after it, picks it up and brings it back to me for the next through.

 

If he doesn't bring it back, rare occasion, then I just say ok, no more, I go get it and game over.

 

I think maybe some dogs just fetch naturally. If they really love the game, they will know what to do to get more. With others, if you really want them to retrieve, it just take some strategy on your part.

[jackpine]

I've been lucky I guess. With Bucky, I throw it, whatever it is, and he runs after it, picks it up and brings it back to me for the next through.

 

If he doesn't bring it back, rare occasion, then I just say ok, no more, I go get it and game over.

 

I think maybe some dogs just fetch naturally. If they really love the game, they will know what to do to get more. With others, if you really want them to retrieve, it just take some strategy on your part.

[/quote

 

 

Oh screw it. From the beginning I expected my dog to bring it back to me. There was no question about it. My absolute expectation was relayed to my dog somehow. My expectation was exhibited in my actions. He understood.

I don't use techniques much. I just use communication. A kind of energy. A kind of telepathy. Whatever it is, it works and you don't need to rely on techniques if you are confident with this. There is a kind of "communion", if you will. Don't know how it works, just know that dogs understand it. Wolves do this with other members of their pack.

 

Dogs like wolves, pick up our energy.

 

 

I don't think I belong in this board. I don't think there are many here who understand, or want to understand, what I'm trying to say. That's ok.

 

 

thanks for your input.

 

by for now.

 

 

 

 

 

tara

[Anda]

Uhhh... are you having an argument with yourself, jackpine?

[nancy]

Fergie brought the ball back - heck, the pine cone at first - all the time. Then she started bringing it only part way back. I just told her "it's not to me". That works - she keeps bringing it closer.

 

Then I decided to just say "Please!"

 

Now, she will drop the ball down the field. She'll drop it and grab it up again. She'll sort of toss it. But, when I say "Please", she drops the ball and lets me take it to throw. Of course, I say"Thank you." Works a treat with my grandgirls (5 & 10) and the few local kids.

 

Of course, her favorite game is "bowling for Mommy" - going uphill from me, dropping the ball, and nudging it with her nose to make it roll down to me. I have to "shag" it and toss it back to her.

[smileyzookie]

Riven brings the ball pack, but wont drop it. Then if I reach to get it out of her mouth she steps backwards and makes a play stance. She knows drop it and eventually will do it, but if I go to reach for it she'll pounce on it LOL... she's learning to let me have it though, it is definately through patience

[WyoBC]

I have the same problem with Black Jack. He'll go get it, start to bring it back, then lay down with it between his front legs and look at me. So I started just sitting there and waiting him out. Sooner or later he'll bring it all the way to me. He's learning, but now since he can't chase anything for a while I don't know how he'll do when he's better.

[ericspin]

Well, it's nice to know me and Matsi are not the only ones doing this. I guess what I need to do is to put my (well, really my wife's) Westie in the house while Matsi figures this out. When Matsi drops the ball and I try to wait him out, Tommy (the Westie) will pick it up and bring it to me. Tommy is really good at fetch but his problem is that he's not long-legged enough to get the ball in the first place. Anyway, maybe I should put him up and work this out with Matsi.

 

FWIW, Matsi is my first BC and he and I have the most special bond. He and I just seem to _get_ each other. My wife laughs at me beacause I have never had patience for a puppy yet I treat him like a little baby. Glad this forum is here - I have really learned a lot about the breed from all of your posts. If I can figure out this _post a picture_ thing I will get a picture of him loaded up. Blue and white and the older he gets the more wavy the hair gets on his back.

 

Thanks,

Eric

[Shetlander]

Dogs like wolves, pick up our energy.

I don't think I belong in this board. I don't think there are many here who understand, or want to understand, what I'm trying to say. That's ok.

thanks for your input.

 

Well, telepathy may not work for every dog and person . The fact is some dogs really do seem born retrievers and others need an enormous amount of convincing. Quinn was doing a full retrieve at 7 weeks old. My 4 year old Lhasa will, after much training, retrieve a dumbbell for me but nothing else. I could have sent all the wolf vibes towards him I wanted and I doubt he would have been moved (he's a very strong minded little guy).

 

Most of us are looking for techniques, though it is always interesting to read other ideas about living with and training dogs. It just may not be something that is going to work for all people.

[MaryP]

Domestic dogs are not wolves and actually have a very different social structure than wolves. Wolves [and dogs] do not use telepathy to communicate; they use posturing and body movement and facial expressions and scent and vocalization.

 

I have this same problem with Charlie and the frisbee. The problem is that we usually are throwing the frisbee while on a walk or at the ocean. One of the frustrating things that he does when we are at the beach is to catch the frisbee and then go over and drop it in the surf. I have no idea why he does this. On a walk, he'll catch it and then bring it part of the way back and drop it and then run the rest of the way to me and turn and look at it. We will tell him to go get it and he'll run over and pick it up and move it maybe another foot or two closer. One thing that has worked to some degree is to turn my back to him and excitedly call him while jogging away from him. He will then usually bring it all the way to me. However, at some point, I'd like to not have to do this and have him just bring it back without a big production. We do end the game, as well, when he is being too stubborn about not bringing it back.

[2 Devils]

1. You could teach the dog to bring the ball to your hand. You start out with the dog beside you (on leash). Teach the dog drop into your hand. You will most likely need to follow the dogs mouth and "catch" the ball before it hits the ground - yes this exercise is something I have done with dogs that don't like balls but you can tweak for dogs who like balls but are buttheads about bringing it back You can then start adding a little bit of distance and only play when the ball hits YOUR hand. You get the picture

 

2. Keep playing the waiting game. My dogs all learn they only get to play if the ball gets to me. 90% of the time it has to be given to my hand and not the ground. I am lazy and don't bending over to pick it up... the only dog who gets away with being a butthead is my toy poodle but what do you expect

[Katelynn & Gang]

lol I've learned not to want the dogs to bring the ball back. Wet tennis balls being pushed into your sides sleep or dropped in you face while you are sleeping is never to nice (but it wouldn't be life without it, right?!!).

 

My dogs are tennis ball nuts. They were taught by just throwing the ball when it was brought back. If they didn't bring it back, they didn't get to play anymore. They learned on their own I guess?

 

My two boys will get in a tug war over toys as one wants to bring it back so the game can keep going while the other one wants to chew it into a million little peices. The one will tug it all the way over to the "thrower" with the "fetch party pooper" still attached in hopes that the "thrower" will finnished the game of tug and throw the toy. Its always good for a good laugh.

 

Katelynn

[Sue R]

That image of your two is definitely good for a laugh, Katelynn! I expect that the reality is even funnier than what I am picturing in my mind.

[jackpine]

Uhhh... are you having an argument with yourself, jackpine?

 

<laughing> Well, if I am, at least I know I don't bite.

[jackpine]

Domestic dogs are not wolves and actually have a very different social structure than wolves. Wolves [and dogs] do not use telepathy to communicate; they use posturing and body movement and facial expressions and scent and vocalization.

 

 

 

"There is another, far less obvious, kind of communication wolves employ which is perhaps extrasensory, or at least beyond our range of perception. I have noticed that captive animals at rest seem to pick up cues from each other even though there is no audible sound and they are out of visual contact. Their backs may be turned to each other or one may be off in some trees in a corner of the pen. When one animal stares intently at something, for example, it apparently creates some kind of tension. Other animals respond by lifting their heads and turning without hesitation to look at the area where the first animal is staring. In my experience, it was most often the subordinate animals that responded first and the alpha animals last. Perhaps further research will establish a firmer foundation for this. It hints, of course, at much."

 

Barry Lopez

-"Of Wolves and Men"

[Maralynn]

Oh screw it. From the beginning I expected my dog to bring it back to me. There was no question about it. My absolute expectation was relayed to my dog somehow. My expectation was exhibited in my actions. He understood.

I don't use techniques much. I just use communication. A kind of energy. A kind of telepathy. Whatever it is, it works and you don't need to rely on techniques if you are confident with this. There is a kind of "communion", if you will. Don't know how it works, just know that dogs understand it. Wolves do this with other members of their pack.

 

Dogs like wolves, pick up our energy.

 

It's not really fair to your dog to always assume it knows what you want. Border Collies can be pretty darn good at figuring it out. But not every dog is going to be that highly motivated to please you right out of the box.

 

My first dog, Missy, is a dog that is focused and wants to please. Missy has always tried to figure out what I want. Pretty much I show her what to do, put a name to it, and she does it. My wish is her command. She is always watching me, reading my body language and picking up subtle clues what I'm going to be doing next. It seems alot like telepathy sometimes.

 

Enter Kipp. Tried the same approach got different results. The world was much more iteresting the the person and whatever she was doing. Pleasing me was close to the bottom of his list of priorities. If I had assumed that he just needed to pick up on what I wanted I would have been extremely frustrated. So I changed my method with him to suit his learning style. If I hadn't, he'd still be running past the ball to find the squirrel.

[nowwown]

We still have trouble with this with 10 -month old Cody! We have found that if we turn our back to him, he comes rushing up to us, pushing the ball into our knees. Kind of like "hey, we're not done yet!". Sometimes he drops the ball, sometimes he gives the ball. Alot of the time, I think he's just playing, where he darts out of reach with the ball, about 2-3 feet from us with the ball.

 

I've gotten to the point where I just wait him out. As soon as he drops the ball, we immediately will throw it again as a reward. But I never go to him anymore.

 

And each dog, just like children, are different and need different motivators/techniques to teach and learn!

[Krisztina]

My pup Finn does the same thing. He's five months old as well and will chase after anything I throw but he only brings it back a few feet. Waiting it out can be painful! He drops whatever immediately, it's just that initial getting it to me. I've had lots and lots of people tell me he'll come into it with age. My bc Jess naturally brought it back to me at a very early age, no encouragemet needed,and of course now I regret the obsession! . If I run from Finn when he gets the ball, he drops it and runs after me! I agree that all dogs are different,like people,some methods work for some,not for others.Hopefully like your pup, Finn will cop on here soon!:-)

 

I just wanted to add that I think this board is wonderful and really appreciate everyone's advice ,it's very interesting to read and it's nice to know people deal with the same issues as you do ! Thanks.